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Old 08-17-2005, 12:11 AM   #251
reddevil
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Give me a holler if you have questions, or if you want to come up to Portland and check my setup out (providing its running..)
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:30 AM   #252
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Might be a good idea. Thinking about getting a 2.2T engine for my project, or turbo pistons for my 2.5 block. Not sure about Cams or other supporting mods.

I haven't run a Nitrous setup before like you have, so wiring up the clutch switch is going to be a new experience for me.

I also have the added fun of dealing with an ABS unit. I'm going to relocate my battery and washer fluid to my trunk and mount it on the other side. On that note, how did you mount your charger anyway? If you have pictures it would be great.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:49 AM   #253
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If you reread this entire thread you will get most of what I have done. Mounting it on the battery side should just be the opposite of mine with only minor mods.
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:36 AM   #254
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Chi_san: it might take a while to find a EJ22T block... but if you can, then use your heads off your EJ25, the intake, ect. and you'll get somewhere around 7.5:1 CR (more boost! more boost!) or you could tear that block out, sleeve it, and put STi pistons/rods into it.
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:20 AM   #255
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I'd rather keep away from Frankenstine engines. Plus, I'd rather stay closer to 9:1 than to 7:1 for the compression ratio. I'm almost tempted to find a 2.7 liter H6 and toy around with that, but I know I won't be able to find one local.

There is a guy who runs a great little shop local, he's got a ton of 1.8 liter engines and 2.2 liter engines sitting around.

Plus, EJ22T block with EJ252 head... Yeah, DOHC is better for FI, plus, the 22T will have better cam profiles. At the very worst, I'd go EJ22T block with EJ20T head, but I doubt that would be a happy combination.
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:41 AM   #256
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EJ20 heads: 49cc dish
EJ25 heads: 50cc dish
(in most cases, I think some jdm 2.5L heads were less)

I'm just not sure if the mating surface of the chamber is a different bore or not. I would think so. Using a smaller circumference chamber on a bigger piston makes for better quench area doesn't it?

You'd still drop compression like a madman. And the 2.0L heads are for the turbo/closed deck blocks, so it would work fine.
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Old 08-18-2005, 09:17 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil

Since I installed the WOT switch and removed the BOV, the power is great, even with a too small crank pulley.
I'm amassing funds and connections to get this same (or similar) setup. You have inspired the crap out of me. It will prob happen next year but I have a noob question or two:

1) BOV: Can you set these so they activate at a certain PSI? I'm relatively clueless about FI. I didnt want to put more than 4 or 5 psi at 6k (my redline = 6.2k) and it will be a standard ej22 motor..dont want to kill it. I'm not looking for crazy boost...just a little something here and there. The charger im looking at on ebay is (and i dont have the link here, and ive asked about this previously) is I THINK the M62 with electric clutch and delivers 9.8 psi at 7K...way too much for me. I just want to retard it a little.

2) Is it ok to rig this up to a switch and throw it when i want the supercharger to start boosting. Prob sounds ricey....but I want total control over when this thing is running and when its not. This is my daily driver (1.5 hr each way to work) and I want to conserve my 29mpg for the most part and only use the charger when passing someone, going up steep hills etc. I might track it someday.
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Old 08-18-2005, 02:43 PM   #258
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Once the BOV opens, it lets all of the pressure out. It's like a valve, once you hit a certain pressure, all of the pressure inside is let out. So, using a BOV to regulate boost woulnd't be a good idea.

As for the manual switch, what I would suggest doing would be to wire it up normal with a WOT switch, and then have a kill switch. So, flip the kill switch and even at WOT, it won't kick in, flip it off, and at WOT it would kick in. Sounds pretty simple, but I haven't ever wired up a WOT switch or system before and have no idea how it would work. As for your milage, if you are careful and think it through, you could probably run alcohol injection without any other major tuning. Basically, when you go WOT and the charger kicks in, alcohol is injected into the mix and raises the octane level of your gasoline. YOu use the same amount of gasoline, but you just are adding alcohol into the mix. Some people tune turbos this way, so when you're making boost, it adds alcohol and they can run on 87 or 89 octane gasoline instead of 91 or 93. If you do do this, I would suggest you get a tank level meter installed, and when the alcohol tank is empty, it prevents the supercharger from kicking in, which would save your engine.

Okay, enough from me now.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:34 PM   #259
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Sad thing about the clutched design is you can't change the pulley sizes

I think i would go with the bypass valve arangement instead
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:41 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192
Sad thing about the clutched design is you can't change the pulley sizes

I think i would go with the bypass valve arangement instead
ARGH i was just getting ready to ask if a bigger pulley would = less boost.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:38 AM   #261
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Yes it would

I just realized last night while changing my plug wires that my car has like a 4 rib and a 5-6 rib belt. I had my battery out and was looking at how the supercharger would fit in there. But that little belt isn't nearly big enough, especially if i'm aiming for 18 psi. I'll have to figure something out. Probably end up with custom pulleys...
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:58 AM   #262
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In your quest for junkyard boost, don't overlook the IHI supercharger that's on the Mazda Millenia S 2.3L engine. It's a twin-screw compressor, so it'll have greater efficiency at higher boost than the Eaton units. It runs around 6 psi on the Mazda (to be confirmed, that's what I was told by a local who has a Millenia S) and uses engine oil lubrication. It doesn't have a clutch, so it'll need a by-pass valve. Keep an eye out for them on Ebay, as they pop up every now and again.

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Old 08-19-2005, 11:50 AM   #263
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That would be the "miller duty cycle engine" IIRC. It bypasses the SC when it's not being used, nice design.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:19 AM   #264
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Red, any plans for upgrading your exhaust? I'm thinking that once I get the supercharger installed, I'm going to setup my car for more low end torque using a TWE header and maybe get a different cam.
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Old 08-24-2005, 09:08 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klug
In your quest for junkyard boost, don't overlook the IHI supercharger that's on the Mazda Millenia S 2.3L engine. It's a twin-screw compressor, so it'll have greater efficiency at higher boost than the Eaton units. It runs around 6 psi on the Mazda (to be confirmed, that's what I was told by a local who has a Millenia S) and uses engine oil lubrication. It doesn't have a clutch, so it'll need a by-pass valve. Keep an eye out for them on Ebay, as they pop up every now and again.

klug
Actually one just popped up on there

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IHI-M...95551421QQrdZ1

Somebody grab it and put it in their suby :-)
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Old 08-24-2005, 11:11 AM   #266
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Old 08-24-2005, 11:29 AM   #267
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Hey Chi,

My exhuast is 2.5" from the front Cat back. 90-94 NA legacies have a converter in the front header. So mine is gutted and then cut into and has 2.5 from there back.
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:31 PM   #268
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Thanks to MadMax for the boost calculations (i found the missing link on another thread) I have created a spreadsheet that will give a pretty close estimate for boost. You can insert engine size, pulley ratio, and compressor displacement. It assumes that the engine has a VE of 80% and the compressor at 100%. When i have known values later i could possibly update it with the VE across the RPM range of the compressor and engine and get a more accurate number.

Download it here
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Old 08-25-2005, 01:35 AM   #269
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My engine build update.

Took the block, the head in question (probably cracked exhaust port), and two "new" heads back to the auto machine shop. The will spot me $60 plus. So I will once again get two rebuilt heads plus a honed turbo block.

Master. It seems to work, kinda. I suspect intercoolers through a loop into the calculations. But its great for rough estimates!
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:58 AM   #270
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Yeah, there should be some lag and a little boost drop after the intercooler.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:42 AM   #271
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I'll eventually have to add intercooler and compressor efficiency to the calculations. Not sure if i can add lag. Ohh, and boost drop. I think once all that is in there it'll get alot closer, and maybe it'll explain reddevil's boost going up with rpm rather than remaining constant. When i first put in the boost calc i forgot that the engine cfm was needed so it looked like the boost would climb with rpm. But then i fixed it and it was constant.

If only i could figure out a way to input compressor efficiency from a compressor map, that would help. Also i suspect the VE of the engine is much better than 80% at lower rpms. That alone could be the reason boost climbs with rpms. Anyway, i'll work on getting it closer. I'd like to get it as accurate as possible without requiring too much input.
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Old 08-25-2005, 12:41 PM   #272
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Depends on the IC, I think a top mount one you wont see much or any lag and very little boost drop, because the eaton is a postive displacement it presurizes the space after the blower. Other types of blowers act a different way. Atleast thats my understanding and my experience with my setup.

Red's boost going up with rpm could be related to how he has his plumbing done, i think the TB is after his blower and not before it.

Hope this helps,
MadMax

ps i think 3-400 for any used s/c is a good deal. anything over that, could be money wasted as you might need a rebuild on it anyways. Just for ref, my rebuild by magnusom for my eaton was bout 800 including shipping. So keep that in mind when buying used.
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:17 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax
Depends on the IC, I think a top mount one you wont see much or any lag and very little boost drop, because the eaton is a postive displacement it presurizes the space after the blower. Other types of blowers act a different way. Atleast thats my understanding and my experience with my setup.

Red's boost going up with rpm could be related to how he has his plumbing done, i think the TB is after his blower and not before it.

Hope this helps,
MadMax
I think TB after blower is a must if you want to run lots of boost. I plan on putting in a FMIC, in my setup. It could be the plumbing because i don't see the throttle body as being a problem, it should still pressurize the manifold the same. But plumbing and the intercooler i think would definitely have an effect on that.

If you look at my spreadsheet, change the value in VE ratio, it makes big changes to the boost. I think i definitely want to add a VE ratio at rpm list somewhere in there, just that alone would make the map alot more accurate. Same for the compressor and thats even better.

Lag i don't think matters because as long as its pumping air faster than the engine can eat it, it will build boost. It would look like you hit the throttle in 5th gear at 5mph, you should get your boost way before 2000 rpms in that example.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:07 AM   #274
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A whipple supercharger will produce a constant level of boost. Any non-whipple, non turbochargers will not.

Since the supercharger is belt driven, as the RPM increases, the belt will turn the supercharger faster, and as it turns faster, it will increase the boost. If it was creating a constant level of boost, and the speed at which the air flowed into the engine effected boost, then it would start high and decrease as RPM increases.

I'm hoping to get a small, light 2 stroke engine that is powerful enough to turn a supercharger. I'm going to put this into the back of a small, inexpensive beater 4 cylinder car, and, ahem, have instaboost at all times. Going to be a bit of a death trap... Imagine having 10 PSI of boost available at idle.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:52 PM   #275
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have you considered just using a stock WRX TMIC? this may have been mentioned, but i really think it could help alot.
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