Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday September 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2004, 10:56 PM   #26
klug
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4133
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
'01 2.5RS Sedan
'05 LGT Wagon

Question

OK, now I'm baffled. Since the Roots blower is classified as a positive displacement pump, how is it you can suck air through it without a bypass valve arrangement of some sort?

Do you have any pics of the completed plumbing you're running now? That may help clear things up for me....

klug
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
klug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 04:07 AM   #27
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default



1=MAF attached to air filter. I cut out the fender well to JAMB this into place. I still need to get a real MAF to air filter connector.
2=Two part custom welded intake for the supercharger. I took the original intake, cut off the top, and welded some other part (the black thing) to the top of it. I dont know where the black thing came from other than I won it as a piece of the supercharger action. I suspect it was part of the throttle body intake. Cost $40 for both parts)
3=Custom braket cut out of 3/8" steel Cost $60
4=Original crank. Too small. Needs to be about 8" in diameter. Hope to custom fab one this week for about $100.
5=Custom intake. Had made at my muffler shop for $75.
6=Nitrous Solenoid. You can follow the line above it to see it enter the intake right above #5 arrow.

Last edited by reddevil; 08-10-2004 at 12:06 AM.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 04:08 AM   #28
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Ok, while I still need do a few things to tighten the system up, the word is GO!

With this particular Eaton supercharger, a WOT switch is perfect. There is no need for a BOV. There is no need for an idle bypass valve. The thing is pretty perfect.

Since I installed the WOT switch and removed the BOV, the power is great, even with a too small crank pulley.

Go WOT and the boost just builds super gentle but faster and faster. No hard spike unless you creep up the RPMs without going WOT and then stab it, then the power does hit hard, exspeccially in first and second.

Let off the gas and there is no repercussion or need for a BOV because the compressor is instantly shut off and free rotating.

You may remember that I said the supercharger max rpm is too low. It is. Once I install the 8" custom crank pulley, the power will be outstanding. However, as it is, I can chirp all 4 tires off a hard start. When doing a drag start, I will have to be careful not to burn my clutch.


OK, now how it works with nitrous.

INSANE. OK, not really. But I cut my current nitrous shot of 80hp in half to 40 hp, and I get the same performance. So while the supercharger is not giving me what a 40hp shot of nitrous does, when you combine the two, you get more. ie 1 + 1+ = 3. This is because the nitrous cools the air charge.

The final potential. Intense. I feel that once the crank pulley is sized correctly to the supercharger and with duel stage nitrous, I can easily be putting out 250 crank hp. And since the supercharger power map is a straight diagonal line the strain on the drivetrain is going to be "minimal"

My prediction, I will be a 14.2 second car at about 95 mph in the trap. Not to shabby for a car that started out with a best of 16.6 at 79 mph. And all for a cost of about $1200. Plus some time. Lets see if I can do it.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 04:13 AM   #29
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

klug. Without the clutch engaged, the engine is drawing air normally and simply free spins the rotors in the supercharger. You actually can hear some whine from this. I at first thought this was my fuel pump going out until I figured it out. I will suffer some gas milage loss I suspect but not much. The drain on the system is supposedly only about 2 hp (I cant remember where I read this).

I am going to contact Eaton this week and see if they have a dozen or so superchargers of this style they have as extra inventory. If so, I will plan on doing a kit. Buy in Bulk!
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2004, 11:44 PM   #30
markus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 438
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: St. Albert, AB, Canada
Vehicle:
2004 STi
White on Gold

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil
My fears for making a bigger crank pulley would be A- an exploding crank pulley. B- Overdriving the alternator and power steering. Solutions for this would be to just get smaller alternator and powersteering pulley.
Red,

DON'T do this!!!! If you go bigger crank pulley, and SMALLER alternator/power steering pulleys, you'll only make it worse. If you go bigger crank, you also have to go bigger steering/alternator pulley's too.
markus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 12:03 AM   #31
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Your right, I knew this but typed the wrong direction. I need to remill a 3.5" altenator pulley to keep the altenator rpm the same. Not so sure about the P-steering.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2004, 10:15 PM   #32
asusimpreza
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4416
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Vehicle:
1989 Escort
Blue

Default

My God....if someone can get a electromag-clutch on/off supercharger to work...I'll pee my pants. I always wanted the whole Mad-Max thing for the Scooby. I hope you're just not doing this for your own benefit. If you manage to get this to work flawlessly, please make a kit!!

I'll dump my AVO kit and get this instead.

Ben
asusimpreza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 12:21 AM   #33
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Ben, this is going to work flawlessly! I just hafta have Faith!.

I am working on setting up a kit but this will take awhile to have a "nice" kit available. Max boost will probably be only 8 PSI at 6000 rpm. This is NOT a turbocharger where boost hits and holds. Power goes up as rpm goes up. This kit is going to be designed to be an easy bolt on install (4 hours) for $2500ish. If you supply the supercharger and supercharger intake, kit cost will drop over $1000 to about $1000 to $750. I sure hope this all works out!

There will be options for intercooler and water injection and nitrous ports as well. I just have to get a backer now. Got $35,000?
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 01:59 AM   #34
legacy2003
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38338
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Washington, DC Metro
Vehicle:
2003 Outback Sdn H6
Black

Default

wow this is awesome! what are you running for internals (you're going to scare me if you say stock)? you have the ej22 right? what other mods do you have besides this sc and nitrous?
legacy2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 02:07 AM   #35
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Its stock baby. I havent even upgraded the fuel pump. The thing is, how often are you on boost? and really hard for a long time? Not much. If you are a serious street racer/track racer/drag racer you probably have already done internals. As for me, I just am a guy with two kids who takes the old wagon out to the track. So the engine only sees hard time a few seconds a day -30 seconds at a time at most. I do know that that few seconds can destroy the engine but mine is still running great at 30 mpg.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 02:08 AM   #36
subiekid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25516
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Send help, stuck in internet!
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy TURBO!!!
EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

Default

I was looking at everything and since you are not running A/C could you run the supper charger off of the seciton of the crank pully that use to run the A/C? maybe you could weld on a bigger section onto the crank, so that the alternator/ps run off their original locaiotn, and the sc runs off the old a/c section, but then you would have to remount the s/c and redo the pipes.
subiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 08:06 AM   #37
Drac9
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9861
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicle:
1999 2.35 RS-T w/NOS
Hybrid Rally Blue Pearl

Default

You'll have to move the supercharger somewhere if you want this to work on the RS. The ABS solenoids will be in the way of all the piping and maybe the supercharger as well.
Drac9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 10:32 PM   #38
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

OK, fuel management is needed.

But, it is cheap and easy. It is mechanical versus computer.

I noticed that the AF readings were just slightly low. No detonation or anything but the digital read kept slipping a little versus reading constant while on boost.

I decided to wire in the fuel solenoid from my nitrous solenoid with a small fuel jet. It was wired directly to the supercharger so it would only turn on when the supercharger was on at WOT.

Perfect, .7-.8 readings on the AF digital reader. And a bit more power or so says the butt dyno.

So basically if the supercharger kit makes it to sales (everyone cross their fingers) it will include a fuel solenoid and an injector that is welded into the intake. Basically just a fifth injector.

As soon as my new 7 to 8" pulley is turned, for maximum boost, I will have to take it out to the dyno and really tune it with the fuel jets.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 11:13 PM   #39
subiekid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25516
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Send help, stuck in internet!
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy TURBO!!!
EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

Default

remember you are running an OBD I car, easier to mess with then an OBD II. And your kit wont work with any car that has ABS which is like almost all cars since 95/96.
subiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 11:22 PM   #40
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Damn them safety NAZIS!!! OK everyone, pull out your ABS, stick in your Blower!
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2004, 09:33 AM   #41
AcquaCow
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 36838
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Reston VA
Vehicle:
2000 RS, 2001 RSTi,
and a 2011 WRX hatch...

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil
Damn them safety NAZIS!!! OK everyone, pull out your ABS, stick in your Blower!
You going to include a ABS-delete kit with your setup too?
AcquaCow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2004, 01:46 PM   #42
subiekid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25516
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Send help, stuck in internet!
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy TURBO!!!
EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

Default

Ha, Ha, just put a warning lable stating that you must replace all of the hard lines, that would make the kit a real popular item.
subiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 03:42 AM   #43
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

I "ordered" my 7.5" pulley today. Damn I wish I had my own big lathe so I could turn it myself.

To make this pulley, I took my existing old underdrive pulley, turned off the pulley ridges and took it to my machinist so he could attach a larger piece of aluminium to and turn the whole thing into a nice big 7.5" crank pulley. I decided not to have him make me a full 8" pulley so I would be on the "safe" side. I am having troubles with my boost gauge, and the one I borrowed sucks too, so I am not sure of current boost but it seems to be about 3-5. If it jumps up to 10 with the new pulley, well, have faith in God and 97 octane fuel.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 01:48 PM   #44
yebokmj
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2213
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Raymond, NH USA
Vehicle:
1995 Impreza w/EJ257
Brilliant Red

Default

I don't know if your aware of your car's compression ratio, if I remember correctly it's 9.6, I'm wondering how the higher compression and larger displacement 2.5's will react to your SC without management.
Joshua
yebokmj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 04:26 PM   #45
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

From what little I know at this stage, certain rs's are better suited to boosting, whether it be from a turbo or a supercharger.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 09:24 PM   #46
Kevin Thomas
Street Racing Instructor
Moderator
 
Member#: 110
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 1997 OBS, 1996 SVX, 1988 RX
Vehicle:
1989 1989 XT6

Default

Reddevil,

Before you go any further, please tell me you have an exhaust gas temperature...? That digital read out is cool and informative but you can be running right were you want as far as air/fuel ratios go and still be running too hot. This way, at least you know your EGT is consistantly being monitored.
Kevin Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2004, 10:10 PM   #47
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Sorry, I cant tell you that. Its a secret.

No, I dont have one hooked up yet. I do have one but the leads are too short and I need to figure out how to CORRECTLY extend them.

At this stage I am not worried (too much) about EGT due to the fact that I am running such a small crank pulley which results in lower overall power and boost. I am also running a low of 94 octane fuel up to 96 (for tonight at the drags). I have been running a small shot (40hp) of nitrous a few times and have yet to have a hiccup, much less detonation.

Next week though, when I get the larger crank pulley I WILL install the EGT because now I will be running a much hotter air charge through the system and this is when I will start to run into problems if they want to show their ugly little heads.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2004, 04:57 AM   #48
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Ran the supercharger tonight finally at the track. Without nitrous, I only ran a 16.45 but it was first run of the night and I launched bad. Then worked my way up to a 55 shot of nitrous and the supercharger loved it. I ran consistant 14.8-15.1's 6 times in a row. Best was 14.853 @ 93.22. The top end was completely different than with NA plus nitrous 80 shot. Compare a 14.967 @ 90 (NA w/nitrous 80 shot) to a 14.853 @ 93.22 (supercharger w/ nitrous 55 shot).

Last edited by reddevil; 08-20-2004 at 02:46 AM.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2004, 02:40 AM   #49
Chi_San
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 53558
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Deadford, OR
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

You're nuts. O_O

But in a good way.
Chi_San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2004, 02:57 AM   #50
rabbitnutz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51940
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: boobs?
Default

i have an L. i also happen to not have ABS. wheres my eaton ?
rabbitnutz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
installed my springs today... spdracr00 Legacy Forum 3 02-20-2005 03:03 AM
Instaled my hitch today too... Aaron'z 2.5RS Interior & Exterior Modification 12 09-07-2004 11:31 PM
Installed my HIDs today! ommmjido Member's Car Gallery 18 11-21-2003 05:57 PM
installed my exhaust today Defiantguy Normally Aspirated Powertrain 5 10-07-2003 03:11 PM
Tring to install my Supertones today!? goose Interior & Exterior Modification 7 06-10-2001 09:41 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.