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Old 08-19-2004, 12:59 PM   #1
STi_Drift
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Default Detonantion: Help

Basically I have the following setup. 22t on SOHC 2.5rs Heads with a vf29. I am running 18psi.

I am currently getting det at 4000 rpm on and my timing is set really conservative already. AFs are 11s.

Any suggestions? Thanks
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:11 PM   #2
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1. being even more conservative with timing
2. colder plugs
3. change gas stations
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:16 PM   #3
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What kind of EM are you using?

Can you log and post them?

What EGTs do you see, and where is your EGT probe?

FMIC or TMIC?

Where are you located? If you're in California, there is no way you'll be able to run 18psi from that turbo through those heads and (assumed) stock cams with >11:1 AFRs.

Where in the 11's are your AFRs? 11.3:1 is MASSIVELY different from 11.8:1.

We really can't give good suggestions without more information.

Thanks,

sean
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:20 PM   #4
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Also (implied in Sean's post), the octane of the fuel you are using would be helpful.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:24 PM   #5
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Same question, whats your EM? And how does your fuel setup look like??
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:28 PM   #6
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ok. stock RS heads. I know the fuel in Canada is crap 91 (I know I know i was trying to tune to 91 then use our crap 94). so we won't go there I will be running 94 all day as of tonight. but I am using the Hydra as my EM.

AFRs are flat 11s all the way through. It really starts det at 5000rpm ... EGTs do not go over 1500 ( my sensor is in the header right after the flange).

For plugs I am using NGX BKRE7s. 3 ranges colder than stock.

As for data logs they aren't that great

Last edited by STi_Drift; 08-19-2004 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:38 PM   #7
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lower boost?
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:39 PM   #8
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lower boost? hell no

BTW timing is abour 19adv at that point around 5000rpm
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:57 PM   #9
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You will HAVE to lower boost on 91 octane with that turbo. There is just about no chance of running 18psi without det on that setup. Well, I take that back. You could probably do it by running lots of fuel (perhaps 10.3-10.5:1) and very soft timing (-3 deg from now). You will then, very likely, develop a hot spot and pre-ignite, burning a hole in your piston and making engine salad.

How about your intercooler? What are you using?

Remember, det itself LOWERS EGTs, and is more likely caused by over-advanced timing for a particular fuel/boost curve. Yes, this CAN manifest as high temps, but increasing timing in general LOWERS EGTs until something goes PING.

-Sean
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:01 PM   #10
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drastic timing can also be a factor... if you are at 15 adv at max torque then to 19... i think thats too much...
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:03 PM   #11
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its not drastic timing peak tq is around 3600 so its gradual to there. I have seen ppl run 23 and higher
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:18 PM   #12
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Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:29 PM   #13
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No... it's never figured out. I think i will have to lower the boost to 17 run much higher octane and run 10.5 AFs rather than 11 flat
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:35 PM   #14
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water injection?
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
lol hehehe
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_Drift
its not drastic timing peak tq is around 3600 so its gradual to there. I have seen ppl run 23 and higher
This is big_adventure, on Ben's computer.

Peak torque is NOT at 3600. Not without the worst tune in history. The only way I can imagine it is if the over-advanced timing you're running in that range is giving you whatever peak you feel, then det starts and timing pulls, but you're just running through it. Bad bad bad.

Anyway, post your timing curve. The only information you've given substantively is that you're running 19points of timing at 5000, and 18psi.

You have not mentioned what kind of intercooler you're using. And you have not addressed the fact that you're running WAY TOO MUCH boost on 91 octane. I know you want to run 18psi. Well, get yourself some cans of Torco, or add water injection. A really good front-mount intercooler might let you get away with it. But it might not. That's the reality

I doubt that this motor will run more than 14 degrees hapily at 3500, and 19 is probably pushing it at 5K. And that's considering running 16psi rather than 19.

Good luck, perhaps I'll check back later.

-Sean
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:20 PM   #17
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....sounds like you TELLING the motor that it's gonna run the way YOU think it should run....or blow up tryin'....
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:35 PM   #18
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He said that he's been running 91 octane, but is going to be running 94 octane. That will probably help..... Lately, I've been feeling like I'm tellin my motor how it should run. My motor seems to like it though.

peace
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:57 PM   #19
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Mine is strong as hell even as hot as it has been....lots of toluene helps though, too...
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Old 08-20-2004, 12:11 PM   #20
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lol I got it to work. All it needed was some good ol 94. I also advance the timing a number of degrees too. btw i can make 20psi now with no det

I am using the WRX TMIC, money says at am at the limit of it's capabilities
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Old 08-20-2004, 12:15 PM   #21
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You are at and beyond the limit.

It's amazing what the right gas can do. I moved from San Diego to Florida. It's hotter and more humid in Florida - not good for power at all, but I was able to lean the car out .3-.5 AFR everywhere AND add a pound of boost AND add some extra timing thanks to 93 octane gas versus 91.

-Sean
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Old 08-20-2004, 12:18 PM   #22
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What was your timing change?
I'm running 18psi daily on 93 octane, same setup as yours, with a T3/T04B snail and put down 286hp to the wheels.
Never det. once, and Clark even said, when tuning my car, that the engine felt real strong, and asked if I wanted him to keep going! (I chickened out, and told him to stop @18 ) EJ22T ownz all! , you should be just fine.
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Old 08-20-2004, 01:07 PM   #23
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but wait? If he is running stock cams, it is very likely he is getting peak torque that early, no? Someone get their hands on Omarudy's dyno sheet and it will tell you!
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Old 08-20-2004, 01:14 PM   #24
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the torque does peak fairly early. here is a dyno sheet of rs-t with stock heads off tech works website. i would imagine the torque curve is similar.

http://www.techworkseng.com/News/Releases/dynotest.html

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Old 08-20-2004, 02:02 PM   #25
big_adventure
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impresza Kid, the RS-T Stock turbo is MUCH smaller than a vf29. Notice where the horspower falls off.

Wedge, the T3/T04 you're running is more efficient than a vf29 - period. Plus, you're not trying that on 91 octane CAN gas. Ick - there is no way you run that on 91 with that turbo - it just won't compress that way without saying PING.

As for ej22T's ownzing - wanna race?

-Sean
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