help, still misfiring **merged threads**

snowmachine · 08-24-2004, 12:22 AM

Hey, I got two cylinders misfiring, 1 and 2. They both run off the same ignition coil, (there is no distributor or cap). I changed the plugs and checked the wires and no dice. Autozone guy recommended the fuel filter, but I don't know where it is on this car. Thanks everyone

98 Impreza outback, 2.2L naturally aspirated

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Chi_San · 08-24-2004, 01:42 AM

If they're both running off the same coil...

JonofScio · 08-24-2004, 08:01 AM

well, through all of my fun experiences, i've followed misfiring down to a couple items...

ECU, very unlikely, but your ecu does all the timing and could be messed up.
Coil, could not be working properly
valves, could not be adjusted right
spark plugs, could be fouled/corroded
spark plug wires, could be old and not producing enough current/voltage
heads, could be warped

hope this helps some. sounds like your coil pack to me. 1&2 share the same connection and 3&4 share the same connection, so maybe half of your coil pack is dying.

jamesonc · 08-24-2004, 09:25 PM

you are running 87 octane correct

snowmachine · 08-24-2004, 11:52 PM

I am or have been running regular unleaded. I just checked the ignition coil and wires using a wire to the block test and there is good spark. Got new NGK plugs all around. How do I check the fuel filter? Where is the fuel filter? I have heard that could be the issue, but if it is, then why just cylinder 1 and 2? ARRRGHHH!

snowmachine · 08-25-2004, 12:30 AM

I have heard a bit that the fuel filter may be to blame for misfires. Where is the filter located and how can I check it? Thanks. oh yeah, the coil pack is going tommorow in hopes that that will fix the problem.

craigz · 08-25-2004, 08:56 AM

Don't know about any other engine than the 2.5, but the fuel filter is harnessed right to the driver's side strut tower on my '02 OBW. It has two hoses "plugged" into two curved spouts on the top of the filter. Just pull back on the harness release, slide the hoses off (fuel may leak a little) and reverse that order with the new filter. When you start the car, turn the key to the run position and wait a second for the fuel pump to get the pressure up. It still may not start right on the first try, but that'll give it the best chance. Obviously, the fuel that may leak will be missing from the fuel line at the first start. Sorry if this is a DUHHHH!

Subie Gal · 08-25-2004, 11:25 AM

do you have a check engine light?

have you had the code pulled?

what makes you think it's the fuel filter?

snowmachine · 08-25-2004, 01:38 PM

Autozone pulled my codes and I had a misfore on cylinder 1 and 2. p0301 p0302 or somethin like that. The Autozone guy said check fuel filter. But then shouldn't it affect all four? just the 1 and 2 makes me think coil pack, but what do I know... thanks for the help guys

RockRaceScooby · 08-25-2004, 02:24 PM

Why don't you pull one of the plug wires, jam a spark plug on it, hold the body to ground, fire up the car and see if you have spark. Don't shock yourself.

Subie Gal · 08-25-2004, 04:56 PM

autozone guy doesnt know what he's talking about.
mis fire codes are tricky to chase down -
and likely have zilch to do with your fuel filter...

could be the obvious... coil, spark plug or wire

could be ecu
could be fuel injector
could be wiring harness issue

if it's not the obvious, maybe it's time to have a Subaru Tech take a look at it.

Jamie
www.subiegal.com

snowmachine · 08-25-2004, 11:34 PM

well, I put a new coil pack on today, no dice. CEL still on, I may drive it to work tommorow and put some higher octane fuel in, other than that, I guess it's time to suck it up and take it in. Fuel filter just doesn't sound right to me, cause it would affect all four cylinders. Thanks for the help folks.

Chi_San · 08-26-2004, 01:18 AM

Does your car ever knock? Did it Knock before? If so, it might actually be worth checking the filter. If the fuel leaving the filter is dirtier than the fuel entering the filter, then you might have injector problems. That's how a bad filter can mean misfire.

Also might help to check the intake, all of it. Take the intake manifold off if you can. No sense taking it in to a tech to find that there was something stuck in your intake.

sixpack subaru · 08-26-2004, 10:46 AM

STICK TO THE BASICS!!!
have you tried swapping HT leads, (Ign Leads/Coil Leads/Plug Leads), from the two faulty Cyl's???

You guys are trippin'...HARD!!
From what I can gather, it is a DDIS, (Double Direct Ignition System?),
In which case, the 'Second' or 'Return' Spark runs to the opposite Cylinder on the Exhaust Stroke, (cheap way of eliminating Unburnt Hydrocarbons).
I do not believe at ALL that it could Possibly be a fuel supply fault!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!! The only way a 'spark' can traverse from one cyl to another is by
being triggered at the wrong time, or by being sent to the wrong place!!
I'm sorry to YELL.
But if you're not sure, (or simply DON'T KNOW), don't fill the guy's head full of CR*P),
it doesn't do anyone any favours!!!

Tell me more about the Ign system on your vehicle, as I am based in Australia and can only speculate.
However, if it IS DDIS, I am assuming it has a built in Igniter??
I once had a H6 (3.0R) that ran rough intermittantly on ONE cyl!(5).
Occasional Fault Code, no other info.......according to Factory Diagnostics...
Turns out, (after much 'Back-probing' etc), that it was the 'YAW/Veh Direction Sensor under Centre Console that was throwing incorrect Voltage/info to the VDC,(Veh Dynamic Control), Unit and making the ECU 'Think'that it had lost traction!!
The result was an occasional 'Dead Spark' to No:5 Cyl.
I DO NOT believe your fault is THAT hard to find!!LOL

Cheers!

Sixpack Subaru

HndaTch627 · 08-26-2004, 01:00 PM

you probably need wires and plugs.....check the coil tower for any kind of arcing marks, if you see any, replace the coil as well, fuel filter won't cause misfires

if you had an injector dieing i think you'd see a miss on one cylinder but it'd be noticeable, you are probably getting cold start warm up misfire codes which seems to be common as the plugs/wires/coil start to act up

Subietonic · 08-25-2005, 06:21 PM

Did you have any carbon buildup on the old coilpack...looks like corrosion usually black sometimes saltish/white looking? If you do then your plug, plug wire or coil pack is failing. Usually starts with a fouled plug and then progesses to its plug wire that cannot discharge all the juice through the fouled plug so then the wire starts to fail. Once the wire is failing regularly, then the coilpack has nowhere to send its jolt via that plug wire so it starts to breakdown - very typical, progressive process unless you nip it in the bud early.

If this were not the 2.2L (which IMHO and experience is dam near bullet proof), I'd suggest that a head gasket has been compromised and is causing a misfire code in that cylinder (again my experience with an open deck 2.5L DOHC). But that would only be after I had checked the previous three things mentioned above and I would still doubt the HG on a 2.2L unless the engine has been run coolant dry or low, low, low on oil for a while.

Also a Suburu procedure/check for coil pack issues... http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IgnitionCoil.pdf

I'd start with the plugs and work my way backwards to the coilpack... somewhere in there, most likely, is your answer.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.

Dale

08-24-2004, 12:22 AM	#1
snowmachine Scooby Newbie Member#: 68661 Join Date: Aug 2004	help, still misfiring Hey, I got two cylinders misfiring, 1 and 2. They both run off the same ignition coil, (there is no distributor or cap). I changed the plugs and checked the wires and no dice. Autozone guy recommended the fuel filter, but I don't know where it is on this car. Thanks everyone 98 Impreza outback, 2.2L naturally aspirated * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

08-24-2004, 08:01 AM	#3
JonofScio Scooby Newbie Member#: 53595 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: nowehres Vehicle: 1987 GL Hatch EA81 1.6L + Weber	well, through all of my fun experiences, i've followed misfiring down to a couple items... ECU, very unlikely, but your ecu does all the timing and could be messed up. Coil, could not be working properly valves, could not be adjusted right spark plugs, could be fouled/corroded spark plug wires, could be old and not producing enough current/voltage heads, could be warped hope this helps some. sounds like your coil pack to me. 1&2 share the same connection and 3&4 share the same connection, so maybe half of your coil pack is dying. Last edited by JonofScio; 08-24-2004 at 08:17 AM.

08-25-2004, 12:30 AM	#6
snowmachine Scooby Newbie Member#: 68661 Join Date: Aug 2004	fuel filter cause misfirings?? I have heard a bit that the fuel filter may be to blame for misfires. Where is the filter located and how can I check it? Thanks. oh yeah, the coil pack is going tommorow in hopes that that will fix the problem.

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08-24-2004, 01:42 AM	#2
Chi_San Scooby Guru Member#: 53558 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Deadford, OR Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon Silver	If they're both running off the same coil...

08-24-2004, 09:25 PM	#4
jamesonc Scooby Newbie Member#: 49629 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Southern Maine Vehicle: '87 Dodge Ram 50 Black	you are running 87 octane correct

08-24-2004, 11:52 PM	#5
snowmachine Scooby Newbie Member#: 68661 Join Date: Aug 2004	I am or have been running regular unleaded. I just checked the ignition coil and wires using a wire to the block test and there is good spark. Got new NGK plugs all around. How do I check the fuel filter? Where is the fuel filter? I have heard that could be the issue, but if it is, then why just cylinder 1 and 2? ARRRGHHH!

08-25-2004, 08:56 AM	#7
craigz Scooby Newbie Member#: 62819 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Ann Arbor, MI Vehicle: 2002 Outback Blue/Titanium	Don't know about any other engine than the 2.5, but the fuel filter is harnessed right to the driver's side strut tower on my '02 OBW. It has two hoses "plugged" into two curved spouts on the top of the filter. Just pull back on the harness release, slide the hoses off (fuel may leak a little) and reverse that order with the new filter. When you start the car, turn the key to the run position and wait a second for the fuel pump to get the pressure up. It still may not start right on the first try, but that'll give it the best chance. Obviously, the fuel that may leak will be missing from the fuel line at the first start. Sorry if this is a DUHHHH!

08-25-2004, 11:25 AM	#8
Subie Gal GC84Ever Super Moderator Member#: 301 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: WA Vehicle: 2001 2.5 RS/70 Van 02 WRX Rally Stud	do you have a check engine light? have you had the code pulled? what makes you think it's the fuel filter?

08-25-2004, 01:38 PM	#9
snowmachine Scooby Newbie Member#: 68661 Join Date: Aug 2004	Autozone pulled my codes and I had a misfore on cylinder 1 and 2. p0301 p0302 or somethin like that. The Autozone guy said check fuel filter. But then shouldn't it affect all four? just the 1 and 2 makes me think coil pack, but what do I know... thanks for the help guys

08-25-2004, 02:24 PM	#10
RockRaceScooby Scooby Newbie Member#: 57120 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Vehicle: 1999 Forester Red	Why don't you pull one of the plug wires, jam a spark plug on it, hold the body to ground, fire up the car and see if you have spark. Don't shock yourself.

08-25-2004, 04:56 PM	#11
Subie Gal GC84Ever Super Moderator Member#: 301 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: WA Vehicle: 2001 2.5 RS/70 Van 02 WRX Rally Stud	autozone guy doesnt know what he's talking about. mis fire codes are tricky to chase down - and likely have zilch to do with your fuel filter... could be the obvious... coil, spark plug or wire could be ecu could be fuel injector could be wiring harness issue if it's not the obvious, maybe it's time to have a Subaru Tech take a look at it. Jamie www.subiegal.com

08-25-2004, 11:34 PM	#12
snowmachine Scooby Newbie Member#: 68661 Join Date: Aug 2004	well, I put a new coil pack on today, no dice. CEL still on, I may drive it to work tommorow and put some higher octane fuel in, other than that, I guess it's time to suck it up and take it in. Fuel filter just doesn't sound right to me, cause it would affect all four cylinders. Thanks for the help folks.

08-26-2004, 01:18 AM	#13
Chi_San Scooby Guru Member#: 53558 Join Date: Jan 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Deadford, OR Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon Silver	Does your car ever knock? Did it Knock before? If so, it might actually be worth checking the filter. If the fuel leaving the filter is dirtier than the fuel entering the filter, then you might have injector problems. That's how a bad filter can mean misfire. Also might help to check the intake, all of it. Take the intake manifold off if you can. No sense taking it in to a tech to find that there was something stuck in your intake.

08-26-2004, 10:46 AM	#14
sixpack subaru * Banned * Member#: 64974 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: My Shed, Melbourne, Australia Vehicle: 1995 WRX,APEXi,HKS,$ Faded, Stonechipped Red	STICK TO THE BASICS!!! have you tried swapping HT leads, (Ign Leads/Coil Leads/Plug Leads), from the two faulty Cyl's??? You guys are trippin'...HARD!! From what I can gather, it is a DDIS, (Double Direct Ignition System?), In which case, the 'Second' or 'Return' Spark runs to the opposite Cylinder on the Exhaust Stroke, (cheap way of eliminating Unburnt Hydrocarbons). I do not believe at ALL that it could Possibly be a fuel supply fault!!! THINK ABOUT IT!!! The only way a 'spark' can traverse from one cyl to another is by being triggered at the wrong time, or by being sent to the wrong place!! I'm sorry to YELL. But if you're not sure, (or simply DON'T KNOW), don't fill the guy's head full of CR*P), it doesn't do anyone any favours!!! Tell me more about the Ign system on your vehicle, as I am based in Australia and can only speculate. However, if it IS DDIS, I am assuming it has a built in Igniter?? I once had a H6 (3.0R) that ran rough intermittantly on ONE cyl!(5). Occasional Fault Code, no other info.......according to Factory Diagnostics... Turns out, (after much 'Back-probing' etc), that it was the 'YAW/Veh Direction Sensor under Centre Console that was throwing incorrect Voltage/info to the VDC,(Veh Dynamic Control), Unit and making the ECU 'Think'that it had lost traction!! The result was an occasional 'Dead Spark' to No:5 Cyl. I DO NOT believe your fault is THAT hard to find!!LOL Cheers! Sixpack Subaru

08-26-2004, 01:00 PM	#15
HndaTch627 Scooby Guru Member#: 6551 Join Date: May 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Carol Stream, IL Vehicle: '01 GC8 Dinged STM '09 Concours 14 ABS Black	you probably need wires and plugs.....check the coil tower for any kind of arcing marks, if you see any, replace the coil as well, fuel filter won't cause misfires if you had an injector dieing i think you'd see a miss on one cylinder but it'd be noticeable, you are probably getting cold start warm up misfire codes which seems to be common as the plugs/wires/coil start to act up

08-25-2005, 06:21 PM	#16
Subietonic Scooby Specialist Member#: 12588 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Low Country, SC Vehicle: Four Count 'em GF5,BDA,BD5, BP5	Did you have any carbon buildup on the old coilpack...looks like corrosion usually black sometimes saltish/white looking? If you do then your plug, plug wire or coil pack is failing. Usually starts with a fouled plug and then progesses to its plug wire that cannot discharge all the juice through the fouled plug so then the wire starts to fail. Once the wire is failing regularly, then the coilpack has nowhere to send its jolt via that plug wire so it starts to breakdown - very typical, progressive process unless you nip it in the bud early. If this were not the 2.2L (which IMHO and experience is dam near bullet proof), I'd suggest that a head gasket has been compromised and is causing a misfire code in that cylinder (again my experience with an open deck 2.5L DOHC). But that would only be after I had checked the previous three things mentioned above and I would still doubt the HG on a 2.2L unless the engine has been run coolant dry or low, low, low on oil for a while. Also a Suburu procedure/check for coil pack issues... http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/IgnitionCoil.pdf I'd start with the plugs and work my way backwards to the coilpack... somewhere in there, most likely, is your answer. Good luck and keep us informed on your progress. Dale