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Old 08-26-2004, 01:41 PM   #1
ride5000
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default getting the most out of the tuner pro

in my endless search for data, i have come across a new ally: the turboxs tuner pro.

there are four datalogging inputs that are just begging to be used.

the first step is to find out what kind of hardware connectors they are, and what kind of pins they use. then a source for these parts must be found, and the parts ordered.

my plan is to wire up digital input #1 as its intended purpose... rpm signal.

digital input #2 will be used for the vehicle speed sensor.

analog input #1 will be used along with my omega engineering super mcj thermocouple to analog connector. this will allow me to log the temperature of my choosing. all i'll have to do is rig up a thermocouple wire. most likely, manifold air temps. (i will also have to add a x10 voltage gain amplifier, to put the output of the SMCJ--which is 1mV/deg--into a more usable range, but that's another thread.)

as an example, i'm thinking digital input #2 and analog input #1 can be used to track IC efficiency at speed.

now, i would LOVE to use analog input #2 to interface with a MAP sensor--but the MAP sensor would not be for intake manifold pressure, but rather exhaust manifold pressure, or EGBP.

the easiest way to do this would be to use the existing bung on my gutted stock up pipe, but finding a suitable adapter is proving impossible. it looks like i'll have to make one up. i do NOT want to have to remove the up pipe, so one that threads into the existing bung would be great!

the other issue is that i will have to prevent the MAP sensor and its associated hookup tubing from being melted so that will require some length of heat resistant (probably soft copper) tubing to route the pressure signal. there won't be any actual flow of exhaust gas through it, so i'm thinking copper will do.

the reason i'm so interested in EGBP is a) no one seems to be measuring it, and it seems to me pretty damned important and b) i have a modified (p+p) stock exhaust housing that i'm dying to slap on, and i know it will help performance, but i want to know how much, and--most particularly--WHY it helped. logging a change in spool-up time has been done before, and will be done by me as well, but i have a suspicion that the reduction in EGBP is the hidden benefit that is often overlooked. having not only some idea of the change but an actual LOG of the changes would be benificial for all.

so, bottom line(s):

anyone know the mfg. / part # of the molex-style pinout headers on the tuner pro?

anyone have any suggestions as to how to measure EGBP with an electronic MAP sensor (in particular, using the oem up pipe EGT bunghole)?

any and all thoughts welcomed...
ken
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Old 08-26-2004, 04:45 PM   #2
pegdrgr
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AZScoobie knows the exact bolt size, IIRC it is a M12 1.25 bolt, but I am not positive. The setup that I am using is a hard oil cooling line for a turbo. It is about 12" long and does not get hot enough to melt the fuel line that I slipped over the end of the tube. Basically you need a banjo bolt and the fitting going to a hard line. After you are far enough away the temps are not high enough to cause a problem.

Now, my thoughts on measuring the EGBP. This is good information to know, however what are you going to do with it once you have it. The EGBP is based on the turbo design, and airflow. Limiting the airflow in order to keep the EGBP down will only limit your power. You can push up the efficiency of the tune to get a little more power out of it, but that is all.

Monitoring this information will do a great job of telling you how well built the turbo is, BUT little more. You can not completely compare the EGBP results with another turbo. I have heard of people running VF22 with EGBP ratios of 4:1 and getting more power out of them than 3:1. One turbo I recently tested was running 2:1 and would not make ANY more power with added boost. The EGBP was indicitive of a restrictive turbo, but the ratio did not appear that bad. When the exhaust was opened up on the turbo it performed MUCH better, and the EGPR dropped some as a result. However if you were to try and say, ah, EGPR greater than 2:1 is clearly the limiting value. Until you see someone else who ran 3:1 on a different turbo and still made power.

EGPR is a good thing to understand, but it is not a bianary indicator of the problem, rather a trend indicator, or possibly a turbo building indicator.

If you would like I can take a picture of the setup I have for testing EGPR, but it is not that exciting to see, I think the description above tells enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
now, i would LOVE to use analog input #2 to interface with a MAP sensor--but the MAP sensor would not be for intake manifold pressure, but rather exhaust manifold pressure, or EGBP.

the easiest way to do this would be to use the existing bung on my gutted stock up pipe, but finding a suitable adapter is proving impossible. it looks like i'll have to make one up. i do NOT want to have to remove the up pipe, so one that threads into the existing bung would be great!

the other issue is that i will have to prevent the MAP sensor and its associated hookup tubing from being melted so that will require some length of heat resistant (probably soft copper) tubing to route the pressure signal. there won't be any actual flow of exhaust gas through it, so i'm thinking copper will do.

the reason i'm so interested in EGBP is a) no one seems to be measuring it, and it seems to me pretty damned important and b) i have a modified (p+p) stock exhaust housing that i'm dying to slap on, and i know it will help performance, but i want to know how much, and--most particularly--WHY it helped. logging a change in spool-up time has been done before, and will be done by me as well, but i have a suspicion that the reduction in EGBP is the hidden benefit that is often overlooked. having not only some idea of the change but an actual LOG of the changes would be benificial for all.

so, bottom line(s):

anyone know the mfg. / part # of the molex-style pinout headers on the tuner pro?

anyone have any suggestions as to how to measure EGBP with an electronic MAP sensor (in particular, using the oem up pipe EGT bunghole)?

any and all thoughts welcomed...
ken
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:00 PM   #3
bikerboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegdrgr
AZScoobie knows the exact bolt size, IIRC it is a M12 1.25 bolt, but I am not positive.
I agree that is correct. It took be a few days to find that bolt. I used it to plug the eft bung b4 I sent it out to get coated.
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:46 PM   #4
theBob
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Those molex style pins can be found on a Computer (PC) ATX power supply. I just cut the crap out of a Celeron-based doorstop in my office. How many old computers are being cut up right at this second....
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Old 08-27-2004, 07:26 AM   #5
ride5000
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

thanks guys. i'll let you know how it goes.

ken
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