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Old 09-12-2004, 04:18 PM   #51
GarySheehan
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Holy crap. Thank you for all of the replies. I've got a bit more learning to do.

The PC will be used mostly for in-car racing video editing and gaming (hence the video card with Doom3 bundled in).

Nothing has been purchased yet. I figured I'd made a few mistakes and wanted to run it by you guys first.

I looked at twin sticks of 512M memory, but NewEgg pricing showed no advantage. Looks like I have to price each component on different sites to get the best deals.

My thinking was to go with the Prescott P4 with the 775 socket and PCI Express slots as I read that's where Intel is headed. With all the comments on AMD64, I'll have to look into that a bit more.

Sounds like from your comments I'd be able to play Doom3 just as well on a 9800Pro card without issues? I don't mind spending the cash on the 6800GT if it makes a noticeable difference in gameplay, but if not, I'll save the cash.

So it sounds like the preference here is AMD64, twin sticks of 512RAM, perhaps a lesser video card, maybe not use DDR2 memory yet, and some other stuff I forgot.

What AMD64 CPU do you recommend. They look just as expensive as the top P4 CPU's.

Oh, my OS is Windows XP Home upgraded to Pro, but it came with a Dell system. I believe the OEM Win XP Home for Dell can only be installed on the computer it was shipped with, correct? Meaning I've got to buy an OS. Please explain how I might get around that as I didn't understand some of the comments.

Thanks!!!

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Last edited by GarySheehan; 09-12-2004 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 09-12-2004, 04:37 PM   #52
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Gary, I've got an OEM copy of XP Pro that I've installed numerous times amongst 2 computers. There shouldn't be a problem, but you will have to call it in to activate it. No worries, you don't have to talk to a real person anymore.

As much as I hate to say it, Best Buy has the Radeon 9800 Pro (128mb) on sale for $200 this week. If Best Buy can go that low I'm sure you can find it cheaper on a site like www.pricegrabber.com. What a lot of people are doing are ordering the Saphire 9800 Pro (256mb) from newegg.com and flashing it into a 9800 XT! I'm not sure how much a 9800 XT goes for but I've heard it's about $100 more. I'm not sure whether or not a 6800GT will blow away a 9800 XT though, so it may be advantageous to spend the extra $100 or so for the 6800GT if the performance over a 9800 XT is worth the extra $50 (taking into account that Doom 3 is also valued around $50). (Radeon 9800 Pro - $200, Saphire 9800 Pro (flashed into an XT) - $300, 6800GT $400)
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Old 09-12-2004, 04:48 PM   #53
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Do the floppy nay-sayers never update their BIOSes? Only one of my 3 current systems has BIOS updates that run from the hard drive on next boot, the other two (along with countless other systems I regularly work with) require floppies.
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Old 09-12-2004, 05:42 PM   #54
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http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishHis...VIEW&ID=965647

Check that out Gary. Thats basically a similar speced Ath 64 system with a 9800. Quite a bit cheaper. Thats just the mobo/cpu/vid card/ram. The other components you had should work fine on it.
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Old 09-12-2004, 06:19 PM   #55
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lol i love the honda.. i mean athlon crowd
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Old 09-12-2004, 06:20 PM   #56
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do not buy a socket 754..... if your going to go a64 it should be socket 939.... 754 only has single channel ram whereas 939 has dual.... however it is going to be like 200 - 300 dollars more for the 939..... go to www.madonion.com and then go to the community and read the 3dmark03 scores and what not, see if the difference in the scores between a 9800pro and a 6800gt or a x800xt/pro are significant enough for you to spend the extra 200 bucks, personally, i'd go with the 9800pro 128meg ram and use the 200 bucks i saved on the socket 939 athlon 64.... the amd athlon 64 3500+ make sure it's 939... the 754 is only single channel
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Old 09-12-2004, 06:48 PM   #57
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Personally I don't think socket 939 is worth the added cost. The added price really isn't reflected in the performance. Is it faster, sure, but its not "Hey look Socket 939 is 4 times faster then that silly socket 754". I guess thats up to him to decide. All I know is I've been building A64's for a bunch of people and they've worked fantastically without a hitch, and at a much better price.
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Old 09-12-2004, 06:57 PM   #58
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http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjI2LDI=
the 3700+ is the 754 i don't see how you can say that's not reflected in the performance, seeing as the memory bandwidth is nearly twice on the 3800+ and a couple hundred points lower than twice on the 3500+, i wouldn't have suggested the 939, i would have suggested the prescott if the a64 weren't better..... the 3500+ is almost fx53 fast, the 3800+ IS fx53 fast..... the fx53 costs like 850 dollars.... the 3500 is 300 something..... the prescott is 200....
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Old 09-12-2004, 07:17 PM   #59
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Yes. But thats the memory bandwidth. Look at the real benchmarks of actual tasks. The 3700 and 3800 are practically identical in terms of normal tasks.

Big numbers on a synthetic memory test aren't going to mean much at the end of the day.

And I didn't say it wasn't reflected in performance. I said the price/perofrmance ratio is really not worth it at this point, and the benchmarks and prices still back up that statement.
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Old 09-13-2004, 02:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brchco12
lol i love the honda.. i mean athlon crowd
I can't see how you can say that when in reality Intel is more like a Honda. Everyone crowds around and whores to them because it's got "Intel inside" as if that means anything. Athlon fans are like a Subaru fan, a rare breed indeed.
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Old 09-13-2004, 02:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Imakuni
I can't see how you can say that when in reality Intel is more like a Honda. Everyone crowds around and whores to them because it's got "Intel inside" as if that means anything. Athlon fans are like a Subaru fan, a rare breed indeed.
True. Intel is usually more money without more performance, just like Honda.
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Old 09-13-2004, 03:16 PM   #62
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What Athlon64 cpu is comparable to a P4 3.2GHz cpu?

Seems like the cost savings with an Athlon is lost if I go with a 939 socket. It's actually more expensive. Why is it worth it?

Is it worth it to step up to 1MB of L2 cache on the Athlon?

Should I bother with a PCI Express slot or just stick with AGP for video card?

If I go with Athlon, what's a decent mobo for it? MSi?

There are so many cases available. I want something that will fit all the gear as well as have plenty of cooling (I'm thinking about 4 fans). What's a decent case w/o power supply for low cost?

I'll also need something like a 450W power supply. Suggestions?

Finally, will it run D3 extremely well?!!!

Thanks!

Gary

Last edited by GarySheehan; 09-13-2004 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 09-13-2004, 04:29 PM   #63
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"What Athlon64 cpu is comparable to a P4 3.2GHz cpu?"

The 3200+

"Seems like the cost savings with an Athlon is lost if I go with a 939 socket. It's actually more expensive. Why is it worth it?"

In your case it most likely isn't worth it. Socket 754 while not as technologically fantastic is still a great buy, and you really are not going to notice the difference.

"Is it worth it to step up to 1MB of L2 cache on the Athlon?"

You want the Ath64 with the 512k. The 1meg cache chips are actually a slower clock speed, but rated the same. They are designed for laptop usage.

"Should I bother with a PCI Express slot or just stick with AGP for video card?"

Stick with the AGP. PCI express isn't going to be taking anything by storm for quite some time. Theoretical transfer speeds don't mean crap if nothing takes advantage of them.

"If I go with Athlon, what's a decent mobo for it? MSi?"

I personally recommend ASUS's K8V Deluxe, but Newegg is out of stock on those right now. MSI and Soyo both make pretty good boards, though I've only used MSI's for P4 chips.

"There are so many cases available. I want something that will fit all the gear as well as have plenty of cooling (I'm thinking about 4 fans). What's a decent case w/o power supply for low cost?"

Thats the beauty of the Athlon 64's. They run MUCH cooler then the Press-hots. You can get away with 1 80mm fan on back, and an intake fan up front. I personally love this case, and since your spending less money on everything else, a little more towards the case shouldn't hurt.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...170-015&depa=1

Comes with fans, built in fan controller (quiets down the front intake fans), fan filters, nicely rolled aluminum, quick swap drive cages, slide out mobo tray, and just looks really nice and clean.

"I'll also need something like a 450W power supply. Suggestions?"

Anything from a decent name brand like Thermaltake, Antec, etc should be fine.

"Finally, will it run D3 extremely well?!!! "

I have a Ath64 3000+, 9800 Pro with 128 megs, and a gig of ram, and my machine runs Doom comfortably on high quality. If you got the 9800 with 256 megs of ram, (only a few bucks more at this stage) you'd be blazing through it.
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Old 09-13-2004, 05:54 PM   #64
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I can get the eVGA 6800GT with FarCry for $80 more than the 9800 with 256MB RAM. Worth it?
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:01 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarySheehan
I can get the eVGA 6800GT with FarCry for $80 more than the 9800 with 256MB RAM. Worth it?
What prices are you looking at? I see the 9800 256 meg for only $265

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-340&depa=0

The cheapest 6800GT I'm seeing is the one on their front page which is $390.

If you have the cash and don't want to upgrade, then go for the 6800. I personally like the always stay 1 step behind the latest and greatest. Because by the time a game comes out that really NEEDS the 6800 to run well, there will be better cards available for $200. So saving the extra $100 now generally benefits in the long run.

But if you want 8xAA on Doom, then go for it. Really depends on if you want to spend the money or not. You won't notice an insane difference while playing the game.
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:18 PM   #66
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I was looking at the 9800XT for $305. I don't even know what 2x vs. 8x anti-aliasing would look like!

Gary
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:28 PM   #67
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Wait for the 6600 to come out and try to find a motherboard with 2 PCI-E slots, SLI Time!!

Or you could at least get the 6800GT in PCI-E form.

BTW.. F' microsoft just borrow a friends copy and crack it.
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:40 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarySheehan
I was looking at the 9800XT for $305. I don't even know what 2x vs. 8x anti-aliasing would look like!

Gary
I would get the card I linked above. The 9800XT is going to be nearly identical, its simply a slightly more overclocked 9800. (You could overclock a 9800 Pro to XT speeds fairly easily, but its not much of a difference). Price wise it isn't worth it. You should be pretty happy with the 9800 Pro. Right now its the best bang for the buck card. I'd say the 128 meg would probably even be more then adequate, but the extra ram won't hurt.
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