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Old 10-05-2004, 02:16 PM   #1
Matt Monson
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Default Dyno testing of I-Speed NA reflash.

I may have missed this if someone put it up, but no thread title from the last few weeks suggested this was linked. I-Speed has posted some dyno numbers and analysis of their on-going effort to bring an NA EJ25 reflash to market.
http://www.i-speed.us/news/rs_reflash_testing.shtml

enjoy...
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:28 PM   #2
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I likes. Should increase acceleration a bit. What about EJ22 ECU?
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:29 PM   #3
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thanks for the heads up matt,
somethin to look foward to that isnt vaporware...
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Old 10-05-2004, 02:39 PM   #4
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More mid range power eh? I was hoping for more top end improvment.
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Old 10-05-2004, 03:10 PM   #5
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_to_WRX_swap
More mid range power eh? I was hoping for more top end improvment.
That's the limitation of the breathing of the engine, not the ECU. Get some cams and headwork...

Fuji K,
An EJ22 reflash will most likely never ever happen. A torque chip is the only option for you. That, or an engine swap...
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
That's the limitation of the breathing of the engine, not the ECU. Get some cams and headwork...

Fuji K,
An EJ22 reflash will most likely never ever happen. A torque chip is the only option for you. That, or an engine swap...
Man Matt just shoot down the guys hopes Just kiddin', you're probably right though on that about it not coming out. Thanks for the update.
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Old 10-05-2004, 06:30 PM   #7
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can't really tell what the numbers are...
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Old 10-05-2004, 07:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impr25rs
you're probably right though on that about it not coming out.
probably? i would sayt thats absolute considering how long its taking for one to come out for the ej25.
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Old 10-06-2004, 06:30 AM   #9
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I've been waiting for this for the past two months and it's still not ready. Oh well. The peak power is not that much to get excited about, but the gain in the midrange in quite nice. Too bad the torque curve looks so bad though. Hopefully I-speed will be able to get rid of that big dip it takes @ 2500rpms. We should remember though that the car they are using is considered a lightly modified car though. If the owner had a header and hi-flow cat the gains might be quite a bit better. They might also be better if they had a different intake such as a cobb cai. I'm sure I-speed will work on it untill they get the results they are looking for. I just wanted it done by the time SEMA rolled around so I could have Bill tune my car for me while he's in vegas for the convention. Oh well. We shall see.
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:22 AM   #10
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If I-Speed was really keen on getting impressive results they should do their tuning with a modified car. Intakes really mess up the A/F ratio of the EJ25; There is good power to be found from a simple air fuel tuning of an engine with an intake, and most probably a lot more to come from an engine with intake / exhaust mods, specially when you consider that the reflash can play with the ignition timing as well.
What I really want to see though is a cammed engine reflashed with a raised redline. That and a full exhaust + intake + lightened flywheel. I want to see it under my hood
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Old 10-06-2004, 06:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlabs
If I-Speed was really keen on getting impressive results they should do their tuning with a modified car. Intakes really mess up the A/F ratio of the EJ25; There is good power to be found from a simple air fuel tuning of an engine with an intake, and most probably a lot more to come from an engine with intake / exhaust mods, specially when you consider that the reflash can play with the ignition timing as well.
What I really want to see though is a cammed engine reflashed with a raised redline. That and a full exhaust + intake + lightened flywheel. I want to see it under my hood
I agree with your statements about the big engine setup, I would like to see this too. Though the main thing now is to get the car running solid and make some actual top end. Though the top end is the weak point not because of intakes but mainly because of limiting factors within the ECU we are working on, and that is what is holding us back right now.

The mid range dip, yes that was also a concern we are working on right too. We have found where it is doing this and only with small adjustments are able to slowly get rid of it, though it is a process and a half. Though the midrange change is nothing to sneeze at, this will help many Autocross RS's and RS's that like to play in the twisties. Drag times I bet would improve also, along with track times. Sometimes top end horsepower doesn't really do a whole lot except give you a number you can tell other people about.

Anyway we are still working on it, as it does take time, as does anything that we do. We might take a little longer though we will do it right.

Cheers,
Bill Knose
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:14 PM   #12
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Bill,
Thanks for taking the time to comment...
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:25 PM   #13
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I cant wait for this. Do you have an estimated time when this might be available to the public?
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:30 PM   #14
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I like what I'm hearing for us N/A people. Good luck on the continuing dyno tweaks. Brian
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Old 10-06-2004, 10:17 PM   #15
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I hope everything goes well, from what i read on the ispeed website, the 02-on is still not being dev. so i'm guessing we'll have to wiat and see how everything goes with the gc
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Old 10-07-2004, 02:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker
The mid range dip, yes that was also a concern we are working on right too. We have found where it is doing this and only with small adjustments are able to slowly get rid of it, though it is a process and a half. Though the midrange change is nothing to sneeze at, this will help many Autocross RS's and RS's that like to play in the twisties. Drag times I bet would improve also, along with track times. Sometimes top end horsepower doesn't really do a whole lot except give you a number you can tell other people about.
From what I remember from other ressearch, that dip is impossible to eliminate 100% on the N/A cars, and was mostly a result of the Intake manifold design. Thats one of the reasons why I'm interested on seeing a chart from an 05 N/A RS with minor mods (has the new intake manifold design)
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Old 10-07-2004, 03:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen
From what I remember from other ressearch, that dip is impossible to eliminate 100% on the N/A cars, and was mostly a result of the Intake manifold design. Thats one of the reasons why I'm interested on seeing a chart from an 05 N/A RS with minor mods (has the new intake manifold design)
Does this new intake manifold design differ from the 04 new manifold design? Just curious.
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Old 10-07-2004, 09:49 AM   #18
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Bill: Have you considered the possibility that perhaps you can't make more top end because with a stock intake, exhaust, valve porting, cams, etc etc the engine is simply running out of air? That would be my best guess, considering there is very little justification for Subaru making those parts oversize and then bringing down the power through the ECU. I agree 100% with trying to get it right in a stock car before you introduce other factors into the tuning equation, but I would honestly be surprized if this reflash was worth it for someone not running mods, and I would be even more surprized to see anyone want to reflash a stock car; there are *far* bigger gains to be made through tuning after intake and exhaust improvements, and even bigger ones for those fortunate enough to be running cams and engine porting... These are the guys that *need* the reflash, and they are the ones that are probably most eager to see you get this right. I know I will be one of the first to buy it once its out, and by then I'll have cams to go with it
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:20 AM   #19
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Yes, but by offering a baseline reflash, they can also offer reflashes to the same people as they build up their rides. Each tuned to the new go-fast goodies installed.
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:29 PM   #20
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THAT would be a good idea
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:48 PM   #21
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since this is being dubbed an "RS reflash" and ECU serials are mentioned, will the reflash work on all 2.5 N/A motors? my legacy might want this
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlabs
Bill: Have you considered the possibility that perhaps you can't make more top end because with a stock intake, exhaust, valve porting, cams, etc etc the engine is simply running out of air? That would be my best guess, considering there is very little justification for Subaru making those parts oversize and then bringing down the power through the ECU. I agree 100% with trying to get it right in a stock car before you introduce other factors into the tuning equation, but I would honestly be surprized if this reflash was worth it for someone not running mods, and I would be even more surprized to see anyone want to reflash a stock car; there are *far* bigger gains to be made through tuning after intake and exhaust improvements, and even bigger ones for those fortunate enough to be running cams and engine porting... These are the guys that *need* the reflash, and they are the ones that are probably most eager to see you get this right. I know I will be one of the first to buy it once its out, and by then I'll have cams to go with it
I agree, more power can be made by simple mods in the RS models. Very simple mods in fact can improve the top end quite a bit. As for no more top end I feel this is partially true and also not. I know there is a timing limiter in the ECU, though not sure where, and I am pretty sure this is causing the ECU to only allow so much timing therefore you can not make more top end power. Though the mid range does get improvements, as seen in the dyno on our site.

That is why I tested the tune on a modded RS, to see what kind of gains are available, and as Kostamojen has stated the air flow through the stock intake manifold is not ideal I do believe the dip can be changed, to become smoother, as I have been trying to accomplish with some success.

A reflash on a completely stock RS, will not gain more horsepower though will improve the midrange torque and reaction time of the engine. That was on a completely stock RS. How much is it worth is another problem. We don't see this worth nearly as much as a WRX EcuTeK reflash by any means.

I am testing the flashed ECU on more models RS's, with different modifications to see how to see how it reacts to temps, different gases (like 87), load, altitude to see if it works well. If it does and the increase in the mid range stays there for all of them, I am probably going to be offering the flash to the public officially. As the midrange gains are pretty good, and will work well with almost any appilcation on a stock RS to modded RS, and hopefully on 87 and 89 octane.

So we shall see,
Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker
I agree, more power can be made by simple mods in the RS models. Very simple mods in fact can improve the top end quite a bit. As for no more top end I feel this is partially true and also not. I know there is a timing limiter in the ECU, though not sure where, and I am pretty sure this is causing the ECU to only allow so much timing therefore you can not make more top end power. Though the mid range does get improvements, as seen in the dyno on our site.

That is why I tested the tune on a modded RS, to see what kind of gains are available, and as Kostamojen has stated the air flow through the stock intake manifold is not ideal I do believe the dip can be changed, to become smoother, as I have been trying to accomplish with some success.

A reflash on a completely stock RS, will not gain more horsepower though will improve the midrange torque and reaction time of the engine. That was on a completely stock RS. How much is it worth is another problem. We don't see this worth nearly as much as a WRX EcuTeK reflash by any means.

I am testing the flashed ECU on more models RS's, with different modifications to see how to see how it reacts to temps, different gases (like 87), load, altitude to see if it works well. If it does and the increase in the mid range stays there for all of them, I am probably going to be offering the flash to the public officially. As the midrange gains are pretty good, and will work well with almost any appilcation on a stock RS to modded RS, and hopefully on 87 and 89 octane.

So we shall see,
Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
Bill it is good to hear that things are still progressing. When you get the tweeks out of the current RS model reflash, are you going to be working on the 02-04 models? Thanks for continuing to keep us NA guys up there with the rest of the subaru world.
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Old 10-16-2004, 11:50 AM   #24
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Bill,
Will this be a user adjustable flash, or just a one time flash? Do you know if you plan on tuning for various configs? In new england 93 octain is available, and emissions are less restricitve. So, having the ability to customise my tune to my moderatly modified RS (headers, high flo cats, intake, light weight flywheel) would be beneficial.
Thanks
AO
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Old 10-16-2004, 12:31 PM   #25
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Bill,
when will the group buy start
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