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Old 10-06-2004, 03:27 AM   #1
luspeed
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Default Dyno Results: Flat Plate vs Divorced W/G

I wasn't sure if anyone posted one of these yet so here goes. These are the dyno results for the hp gain with a divorced waste gate downpipe vs a flat plate downpipe. The first graph shows my 05' WRX with a Stromung 3" flat plate dp vs a Stromung 3" divorced waste gate dp. Since I didn't get a chance to dyno my car stock, the second graph shows what a stock 02' WRX put down on the dyno vs my 05's final pull that day. The Ecutek dyno tune was performed by Ed from Brainstorm.

Mods:
APS Cold Air Intake
PDE Up Pipe
Stromung 3" Divorced Waste Gate Downpipe w/high flow cat
Borla STI 3" Cat Back Exhuast
Samco Intercooler Hoses
Progress Coilovers
Ecutek Dyno Tune

Mainly I've noticed the car pulls significantly stronger in the 6000-7000 rpm range now. If you're thinking about going with a flat plate dp over a divorced waste gate dp, check out these results first.

Lu-

Dyno Results
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:58 AM   #2
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email them to unabomber007@gmail.com and I will host them for you.
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:42 AM   #3
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dude, it's a link, clicky clicky...
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:06 PM   #4
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dude that BS, even top tuners like XX tuning say the Flat Planes make more torque.
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:13 PM   #5
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Jeez, you try to help folks out and end up getting flamed for it? I see how it is Thanks for the assistance unabomber, will send you the graphs asap.
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:37 PM   #6
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Did you retune the ECUtek for each downpipe? If not which downpipe was the car tuned for?
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:43 PM   #7
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Not sure about what you heard bren wrx, but Ed at Brainstorm explained it to me like this. The divorced waste gate dp allows for better boost control and less restriction. Now my waste gate gasses don't run into a wall before eventually flowing through the down pipe. The waste gate gasses are allowed to flow more freely as well as the exhaust from the turbo. As you'll see from in the 1st graph I gained about 10 ft-lbs and 12 hp. On the flip side, I made peak torque about a 100 rpms sooner with the flat plate dp, if that's what you're referring to?
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Old 10-06-2004, 12:55 PM   #8
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yes mbiker97, the 1st graph shows each dp after it was tuned. Wish I had gone with the div w/g to begin with, but you live and you learn
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:18 PM   #9
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you will not gain 10 hp 10 tq from a little tube letting the wastegate breathe
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:31 PM   #10
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This seems reasonable vs a flat flat design, but a GOOD comparison would be bellmouth vs divorced. The difference according to tuners here is not much at all.

The flat plate is the cheapman's solution anyway.
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Old 10-06-2004, 03:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren wrx
you will not gain 10 hp 10 tq from a little tube letting the wastegate breathe

I guess the dyno he showed was all smoke and mirrors... Where do you get your information from?
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:08 PM   #12
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Now that the above link is actually working....

Flat vs divorced


Stock vs final
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:20 PM   #13
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Tuned doesn't tell me much. He could have made a change somewhere else that resulted in the difference. Tests need to be done with a stock car or at least a car tuned to the flat plate one and then slap the divoced one on. I wouldn't recommend a flat-plate downpipe to anyone unless they are looking for the cheapest thing out there.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:25 PM   #14
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My sentiments exactly, wrex03 Ed over at Brainstorm is a genius with Ecutek but don't take my word for it, just ask the guys at Easystreet where he used to tune. Most folks are aware of the benefits of a bellmouth or divorced waste gate design over the restrictive factory flat plate design. I just figured I'd put some real numbers ou there for people to see.

Also, good point TypeC. I imagine that the div w/g vs bellmouth would be a very close comparison.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:26 PM   #15
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So you dyno'ed the flat plate DP, removed it, installed divorced tube DP, and re-dyno'ed it on the same day?

Was the ECUTEK tuning done on each downpipe, before the switch of downpipes, or just after the divorced DP was installed?

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

Aaron
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:37 PM   #16
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Thanks Unabomber!

dwx & AaronB,

sorry if I wasn't clear on the explanation of the first 1st graph. The first run on the top graph shows the best numbers on my car after an Ecutek dyno tune with the flat plate dp. I ended up buying a div w/g dp and installed it a week later but the car didn't seem to take well to it due to the flat plate tune, even after resetting the ecu and driving for a week. So I went back to Ed and got a retune with the div w/g dp which is shown in the second run. No other changes were done between the two tunes other than the dp. Both tunes were done on 91 pump gas.
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Old 10-06-2004, 04:58 PM   #17
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You got two tunes on two different days a week apart. Sorry...i'm taking this with a big grain of salt.
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
You got two tunes on two different days a week apart. Sorry...i'm taking this with a big grain of salt.
yeah REALLY you got it retuned, it could of had air flow issues BEFORE THE NEW DP that were resolved, im sorry you are NOT gaining 10 whp and 10 tq from swapping a SHORTY DP with a flat plane to one with a seperate tube, no way, especially since its into a high flow cat.
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
You got two tunes on two different days a week apart. Sorry...i'm taking this with a big grain of salt.
Yes the tunes were done on different days. And it's true that dyno done on a different days, with the same car, on the same dyno, will yield different results. Still if you look at the difference in the rpms at which I made peak tq and hp, there's no denying that the div w/g helped the efficiency of the turbo which led to the gains:

Flat plate
229 hp @ 5929 rpms
224.3 ft-lb tq @ 4056 rpms
vs
Div W/G
241.7 hp @ 6614 rpms
234.1 ft-lb tq @ 4150rpms

It's obvious that the flat plate design is simply more restrictive.
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:26 PM   #20
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Divorced fan here!
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Old 10-06-2004, 08:53 PM   #21
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if someone can confirm it adds another 700 rpms of usable power ill order one tonight.
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Old 10-06-2004, 09:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren wrx
if someone can confirm it adds another 700 rpms of usable power ill order one tonight.
bren wrx,

gains all depend on your individual set up. The intake, upipe and turbo back set up I'm running produced these results on an Ecutek dyno tune on a Dynamic Test Systems Dyno at 16.5 psi max boost. As you probably know, an Ecutek dyno tune is custom for each individual vehicle and aside from any after market mods, no two engines roll off the assembly line the same. Infact, my car ran worse after putting on the div w/g dp due to the tune with the flat plate dp, even after trying an ecu reset and driving it for a week! When I returned to get a retune after installing the div w/g dp my inital dyno number prior to tuning was about 227 hp, I don't remember the tq number.

Now, if you're running a preset Cobb map it's highly unlikely that switching to a div w/g dp will yield you the same results that Ed achieved on my vehicle. It took some good tuning and a few dyno runs to get those gains. Bottom line, if you are running preset map, you may not want to go with this upgrade unless Cobb has put out a map specifically tuned with a div w/g dp. With a good tune, however, I think the div w/g dp is a must over the flat plate.
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Old 10-06-2004, 10:28 PM   #23
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its not even the power increase i care about, if the WG is breathing and letting the car make power another 700 rpms, thats all i want.
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:04 PM   #24
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Yeah, I was also looking to be able to pull stronger after 6K rpms which is what led me to switch dp's after talking to my tuner. Even though I didn't really gain hp with the div w/g until Ed retuned it, I could tell the car pulled better after 6K than with the flat plate. The only thing you might have to watchout for is boost spike.

During the week that I drove on the div w/g before the retune, my boost guage was a little unsteady and would occasionally spike up to 18 psi but then quickly bounce back down to 16.5. Ed explained that the waste gate plays a big part in controlling boost which explained what was causing the spiking. As part of the retune Ed had to change my waste gate orifice to get the boost under control. If you do switch to a div w/g I would find out what size you may need to change your orifice to in order to compensate for the increased flow of the w/g gasses. Ed's a cool guy and I'm sure he'd be willing point you in the right direction with that.
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luspeed
Ed explained that the waste gate plays a big part in controlling boost which explained what was causing the spiking. As part of the retune Ed had to change my waste gate orifice to get the boost under control. If you do switch to a div w/g I would find out what size you may need to change your orifice to in order to compensate for the increased flow of the w/g gasses. Ed's a cool guy and I'm sure he'd be willing point you in the right direction with that.
Did Ed explain to you that the wastegate is the ONLY thing that controls boost, not just a big part of it.

Now I see though. He changed the waste gate spring, and probably upped the boost too
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