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Old 10-09-2004, 02:54 PM   #1
robsgotit
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Question apexi super afc on n/a 2.5

i have an 02 2.5rs basic mods, intake exhaust, i purchased a super afc brand new in box from a buddy of mine for dirt cheap(125 to be exact) anywho is it worth my time to hook it up to my rs, are there any gains available from it with the minimal mods i have?
thanx rob,
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:44 AM   #2
robsgotit
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an1?
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Old 10-10-2004, 01:03 AM   #3
Crash477
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well with what you have so far, not really.

If you complete the exhaust, get a lite weight pulley, and cams. then you may see some gains, but minimal. In order for an RS to see real gains from engine managment you really need stage 3. which is cams and heads. THen you should see about 15 hp from EM. my .02
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Old 10-10-2004, 01:38 AM   #4
ej25power
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I thought the safc didn't work with the 02+ models? Something about closed or open loop in the ecu. I don't remember what it was exactly...maybe somone can verify/expand on this.
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:04 AM   #5
GC8drifter86
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the ECU on the MAP RS's adapt around the S-AFC but if u wanna sell it to me since i have a MY99(MAF) and could use it more than you could that would be great hahahaaha
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:15 AM   #6
Patrick Olsen
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I have to disagree with Crash477. During one of the dyno days I attended a couple years back a guy with just intake and exhaust picked up torque and HP across the entire rev range using an S-AFC. Unfortunately, all the dyno graph picture links are dead in the old thread in the New England Forum, so I can't say how pronounced the difference was.

My own car's AFR pegged off the scale low (even richer than 10:1) from 4100rpm up on the dyno with just an exhaust. Clearly there was power to be had with an S-AFC, but I didn't get mine until after I had the Cobb heads and cams on the car.

I think there is some truth to the ECU "learning around" the S-AFC, but unfortunately I don't have enough dyno time to be 100% certain. I'm seriously considering getting a wide-band O2 sensor, and that's one of the things I would definitely investigate.

Pat Olsen
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:20 AM   #7
Crash477
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Patrick could be right, thats just what I have heard from others. I dont have any experience with one myself.
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:44 AM   #8
robsgotit
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thanx for the replys guys, my next question is.... where to get my ecu diagram so i can hook this thing up
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:34 AM   #9
RyansJDMgc8
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I have an 01 ecu diagram. Find out if its the same as the 02', and PM me or e-mail me and I can send you a picture. ( JDMimpreza@msn.com ) I had the SAFC2 on my 01' RS and my ecu did learn around it, although it took about 3 tanks of gas for the computer to learn the AFC. Then I belive you could just reset your ecu every couple weeks.
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:50 AM   #10
robsgotit
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sounds good ill find out today about the ecu, but what do you mean reset the ecu every couple of weeks?
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:22 PM   #11
BlkTS02
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Since the 02 and later ECU's can learn around piggyback computers, you'll have to clear it's memory (reset) every now and then to utilize the SAFC.

On the other hand, since our cars revert to a closed loop map at full throttle Set the high throttle setting to 85% throttle and only change the A/F ratio on the high throttle setting. I've been running like that and everything seems to be ok. I notice some improvement at WOT with no loss of mileage or other ill effects for normal daily driving. Granted this is with my butt-dyno and not real results.

BTW, do a search for the blue wire mod. It'll help you to establish a basis for some settings. The 2nd sensor reading should be .84v at the correct A/F ratio.
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:26 AM   #12
Pat L.I.
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BlkTS02 out of curiosity what settings are you running on the Safc. and what mods do you have. I have an SAFC2 installed on my 02Rs with a cobb intake, borla headers, custom 2.25 unres midpipe, scoobysport axleback, GFB pulleys, exedy LW flywheel and soon to be cobb spicey cams.
The safc2 is currently untuned, i have toyed with it slightly but didnt notice much. I will be looking into doing the blue wire mod.
thanks
Pat
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:46 AM   #13
Sharmin7
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i finally hooked up my safc last night on my 02 2.5rs and my car ran so poorly i had to unistall it. the rev limiter was set at 4500rpm with no way to change it, it pulsated at idle terribly and hesitated off acceleration. I know that they have to be tuned, but i set all the settings to zero so it was just reading my car stock and was pretty much just a neat looking electronic in my car for the time until it was tuned. I know it was installed correctly because everything worked properly on the unit. After driving around for 3-4 minutes, i heard a loud pop from underneath the car, a smell came from the vents and my car threw a CEL. I'm getting it scanned in an hour to find out what it was. Sounds to me like I blew out my 02 sensor. Moral to the story, gonna leave it out of the car, not anyting thats crucial, and could find better ways to spend money on my ride. Thanks
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:46 AM   #14
Sharmin7
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any ideas on why my car acted this way?
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Old 10-13-2004, 12:03 PM   #15
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Pat L.I.: Well our exhausts are similiar, I have the same except for revolution motorsports headers. I'm planning on pulleys in the next couple months.

I've got the high throttle set at 85% and at 2500rpm the correction is +2, the rest is +5 until 6000rpm.

I noticed that seemed to help keep the o2 reading closer to .84v. It's not perfect but it seems to help.

From what I understand, it'll help a bit more if you've got cams as the engine can better utilize more fuel in the mix.

As for the blue wire mod, it'll take you a couple minutes. Go to home depot and get some of those nifty splice clamps, that'll save you from having to strip and solder the connections.

The majority of the time, I have the display set to 4 channel with rpm, correction, throttle and knock displayed. Although it is fun to watch the voltage change when I turn on my piaas or crank up some music
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Old 10-13-2004, 12:06 PM   #16
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Sharmin7: Did you have the throttle setting correct? Were all the wires hooked up correctly? The grounds connected in the right order and far enough apart? Did you get the white and yellow wires going in the right direction?

At first the rpm display was off, but it turned out I accidently selected a 6 cylinder engine. After correcting that everything is good.
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Old 10-13-2004, 12:39 PM   #17
Sharmin7
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im 99.9% positive all the wiring was done right, im not sure what the throttle setting was set for, i didnt get that for or know how to look into that so it maybe have been low
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Old 10-13-2004, 12:42 PM   #18
BlkTS02
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I didn't mean the percentage of throttle, I meant in the initial setup, where you have to select an arrow depending on how throttle voltage range.
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Old 10-13-2004, 12:48 PM   #19
Sharmin7
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the arrow is setup pointing upward to the right so thats how i left it
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:01 PM   #20
BlkTS02
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I don't remember what the setting is. It sounds to me that either the safc wasn't installed correctly, or your car was gonna have a fit anyway.

Did you get the code pulled?

When you installed it, did you unplug the battery and wait for the odometer display to go blank?

I don't mean to ask you what might seem like stupid questions, I'm just trying to work through your problem.

Edit, Upon reading your original post you mentioned the 4500 rpm limit. The safc can't change that, so it sounds like your car was in limp mode implying that the installation wasn't correct.
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:09 PM   #21
Sharmin7
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no questions are stupid so dont worry about that,
yes the odometer did display at zero and its very possible the wiring couldve been incorrect so that could be my main problem but all the functions of the safc read correctly so im not exactly sure
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:10 PM   #22
Sharmin7
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im goin to pull the code in an hr when i go on my lunch break so we'll see what that has to say
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:13 PM   #23
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The safc could display information correctly if some wires aren't installed correctly, namely the white and yellow which are for the air fuel ratio. Find out the code and post it, maybe that'll help.
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:15 PM   #24
Sharmin7
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yeah ill definitely do that, ill let ya know in about an hr when i get back
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Old 10-13-2004, 02:18 PM   #25
aura781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharmin7
yeah ill definitely do that, ill let ya know in about an hr when i get back
Did u change the sensor type for the SAFC?
things like hotwire / pressure etc?
no offense, i know this is basic.
but it sounds like what happened to me initially when i set the sensor type wrongly
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