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View Poll Results: What levell of completeness would you like on a ram air system?
$60 option--I don't mind the extra work with a cutting wheel. 6 35.29%
$120 option--I'd rather pay more and have it ready to go. 8 47.06%
You suck. 3 17.65%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2004, 03:05 PM   #1
HamFist
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Default Ram Air Notes and Successes.

If there's any interest left in functional, ATTAINABLE ram air for MAP based imprezas, I'm listening. I tried this a few years ago on my '00 RS as a joke and it worked pretty well. Seems like no one really makes them or takes them seriously, even years later. An experiment with my new boost gauge seemed like a fun idea. Ya'll are gonna get your panties in a bunch over this. Reading the gauge was a little difficult.

I broke out my old ram air intake and re-installed it. It ran pretty good, but I didn't bother with refining anything. Bluntly, the thing still looks hiddeous. The new one won't. In fact, I can do it completely with stock parts and a few add-ons. The difference now is vented emissions lines and the air box is plugged up. It's not entirely emissions legal, but I consider it for track use anyway. Pressurizing crankcase lines are a very very bad thing. No sloshing through puddles with this one, either. It's a true pressurized ram air scoop intake. It's built with the idea of "no holds barred". I've tried short-ram intakes, long tube intakes, tubes into fenders, and almost every cone filter known to man on this car. Not one showed any difference on a boost gauge until I intalled this. I ran a custom 3 inch tube into the fender, and it sucked in the fender. A ram air style intake was a quick, easy way to get cold air that this engine desperately wants.

There's two options, if I were to make this as a kit and ship it out. There would be a boxed kit including templates, and you'd have some intricate work to do with a cutting wheel ($50-60). Or, I could ship it out complete and ready to go with a higher price tag($120). I've got the tools and resources to do both right now, so it's up to you. The more parts and labor, the more the price goes up, basically. I still wish to keep it reasonable, though. That's really the two feasible options. There's very little chance of you getting hurt with the more expensive option.

When done right, there's a tremendous intake noise that comes out if the front of the car. Think of the opposite end of an unplugged exhaust, open right to the real atmosphere. There's an immediate shot of cold air dropping right into your throttle body. No, I didn't dyno it. But I've tried 8 different intake designs on this car to find the best one. This is it, and it can be done completely with stock parts and some labor. I was able to improve my results with a K&N stock-replacement filter.

Results were pretty interesting. The noise alone eliminates any of you looking for a quiet intake upgrade. This isn't it. Powerwise, it's the best. There was "slightly-above" atmospheric readings as low as 40mph. There was a reduction in the level of vaccuum, and "above-atmospheric" readings as low as 40mph. There's also more torque everywhere. To me, it works very well, but it's not consistent "real boost".

As a poor attempt at describing the boost gauge reading, I'll try this. When your revs go up and your cam comes on, the engine wants a LOT more air. You already know the car "inhales". Well, that inhalation makes suction, read as vaccuum on a gauge. Getting that needle to swing above 0, into the area of boost, is what we all want . Back to vaccuum, the more your engine sucks against the restriction of throttle opening, the more vaccuum it pulls. The more air that's available on the other side of the throttle, the less vaccuum you pull. Shoving air there any way you can is a good thing. This scoop intake does just that. Vaccuum increases with revs and a closed throttle. This intake pulls less vaccuum and goes about 1-2psi over atmospheric at full throttle over 60mph. It's not "real boost" in my opinion, though. It's just more cold air crammed in front of the throttle body. Suction of that air kills the boost above 4500rpm. The engine inhales all of it, and LIKES it too! Sure, the gauge flickered to 2psi, but it didn't stay there. It didn't drop below 0, ether. That's the other funny part.

So, flame away or just PM me if you want one and just can't stand it. I'm gonna go play with it some more . This is cool....
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Old 10-10-2004, 04:26 PM   #2
jamesfacts
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Old 10-10-2004, 04:38 PM   #3
nySulli
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interesting, have any pictures of it? cause i'd definitly at least want to see the concept before purchasing something, no matter how hideous it looks, we could all get a better picture of what would be required in making the $60 or just purchasing the $120 option

i'm also wondering if you've tried this test with a cobb or injen CAI, just out of curiousity to see what a boost gauge would read from either of those since we could use that as a baseline to compare the type of gains we might see from your design, kindof a stock vs. cobb vs. hamfist ramair comparision
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Old 10-10-2004, 04:45 PM   #4
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interesting idea of reading the boost guage while monitering the use of different intake systems.

how did you seal off the airbox into the scoop?
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Old 10-10-2004, 04:56 PM   #5
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I donít understand your design, pics would help a lot. I think I want to make something like you are talking about.

I have done some intake testing as well. And I agree 3 inch is the way to go. This intake cost me about $15 bucks is supplies about 2 hours of work. Now itís all painted, and "de-ragged." So what I'm saying is your prices are too high for DIY if its anything like mine. Hell... ill make a replica to mine, complete for $50.


^^^More info on this here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604352 ^^^


My intake lines up with the amber, pointless light on the fender (green circle). So if you remove the light, air has a straight shot into the intake. what i want to do is form a suttle intake in place of the amber light to work as a ram air.

Currently the intake is feed from the openings in the pink circle.
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Old 10-10-2004, 06:25 PM   #6
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In terms of power,. I've driven one of those cheap tubes, and wasn't impressed. 02+ cars don't have a hood scoop either, so I didn't think about them with doing this. For a good addition to tube style intakes, cut a hole in the plastic fender guard on the bottom by the air dam. Unless you've already got the fog light mod . I just noticed it circled in the pic. Fender tubes work, but this works and sounds better. A scoop intake like this isn't an option on 02+ cars since you don't have a hood scoop. You have to like noise to try it like this in the first place. Machine's intake in that thread listed above was a good design. Production cost is an issue with doing a custom box. So, I set out to try it with all the stock pieces I could, even the stock pan/shield....just like 5 years ago....

I think it worked well, but my flat aluminum sheet lined with foam sealed a lot better. That's the one you see. You can see in the photos, it's a foam nightmare. The aluminum sheet needs a different cut. Then there will be a slightly smaller, 9x4 inch-ish square placed on top of the airbox. The production unit will have a lot less foam and a better seal. A pre-made sheet like that, with the emissions rerouting lines, and a plug set. A template to cut it yourself, or a modded stock airbox ready to bolt on is the last question. It's not easy to cut out, and I don't want anyone losing fingers with a high speed cut-off wheel. Again, production cost. But, we're still well under $200 for this thing.



Come to think of it...doing it like this would be a very cheap option.

-A plate/shield cut appropriately with the foam needed. bolts directly to the scoop to direct the air.
-The template to cut the airbox (the cheaper "more work for you" option)
-hoses, connectors, breather and plugs for emissions lines.
-large circular plug for the airbox's stock inlet.






Poof...Ram air! Drop in a K&N factory replacement and your set. Regardless, there's my labor cost involved in obtaining and making the sheet. The above list is most of the parts, and some of the labor involved. I can make it fit out of the box by spending more time on it, and that means the cost goes up.

The prices I listed seemed like good "opposing ends of a cost spectrum" for something like this. The largest production cost for me would be attaining stock airboxes. I don't want to mess with cores, but I will if necessary. I've also got several shops that can produce the things I need. The trick was to keep it simple . More stuff done to it ups the price, simple as that. This can definitely be pulled off for a lot less than $200. the power gains alone are worth the extra cost in labor, IMO.

In terms of "rain" and "snow", you don't have to worry about much. I confer with Machine that the filter gets a little damp. Even in downpours and a foot of snow, both I've been in with it already, the filter wasn't that damp. Are you going to do 100mph in the rain? If so, it's not the filter you should be concerned with. Now, "PUDDLES" should be the word that makes you worry. I've sprayed a garden hose at the inlet just to see what happens. Again, just a damp filter. This not an excuse to avoid using common sense. You're modifying it, treat it accordingly and just use your head. Not to sound too abrasive about it, but there's just a point where I don't forgive stupidity. You KNOW what you're doing to it before you even put it on!

It was defintely worth it just to build it. You can reproduce it yourself if you're good enough with designing things like this. But, people still want their convenience. So, what do you think?

Last edited by HamFist; 10-10-2004 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:46 PM   #7
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I just got through pricing everything, and $60 would cover everything for a very simple kit. You would have to do some cutting on the stock airbox that takes about 10 minutes. $60 looks like it would cover it as a production piece, if you don't mind the cutting work. Shipping would be another $5, probably. Everything together might weigh 3-4lbs when it's boxed up.

included:
-Appropriate bolt-in shield with and weatherstripping
-all emissions plumbing (hoses, clamps, breather, etc...)
-directions

End result will be faster and louder than any other aftermarket Scoob intake. The more I drive mine, the more I like it. Nothing else pulls on the top end quite like this. All gears pull hard to redline. Throttle becomes very snappy. Partial throttle is all you need under normal driving with it. Open it up, and it's almost deafening. Everyone looks. The exhaust note even changes to a deeper note. It should work on 00-01 Imprezas and Outbacks. Legacies would require a little tweaking of this same system, but it should work on that, too. Any N/A Subaru with a factory hood scoop from 2000-2001 should work.

....I'm not kidding about any of this. It's easier and more effective than it's been made out to be...
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Old 10-11-2004, 11:34 AM   #8
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(Shaddup and finish the blower!)

Soooo........guess there's no interest in ram air anymore? If I really wanted to...I could just put the instructions up on the internet. None of ya'll ever complained about free/cheap mods.....
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:43 PM   #9
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why would you need new hoses for this, looks like the front of the airbox remains the same so I dont see why the stock hoses wouldnt work. Also, maybe if you used rubber, kinda like the WRX intercooler to hood seal thing, that would look alot more proffessional and probably get alot more attention. But yes, a write up would be nice while I have a spare airbox to play with Also, is there some type of cover to close up the stock intake piping route?
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:09 PM   #10
HamFist
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Ruski--gotcha on rs25 . The hose rerouting is to keep from pressurizing the valvecover emissions lines that attach to the stock airbox. Boost through those lines is a very bad thing. There's a bunch of different ways that this can be pulled off. Cost is an issue though, and pricing it out of the market has been a problem with other designs. Having you use the stock airbox and do a little work keeps that from happening. It's easy to do if you're good with fab, but someone would turn around and make it into a kit anway...so why NOT try to do it? See the predicament?
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:28 PM   #11
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well, i had interest, but having an 04, i'm kinda screwed on the hood scoop part unless someone with a silver wrx wants to swap hoods with me
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:05 PM   #12
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I'd be interested if you'd provide the stock box and hardware for under $200. The only problem is that I have an 02 WRX hood and I don't know if the scoop location is the same for the GC's. Any chance I could test fit it and send it back if it doesn't fit?

Again, I'm very interested. Let me know when you start producing these.
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:26 PM   #13
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It should work on WRX hood transplants . In fact, it should work on 00-01 legacy's w/ their tiny scoop, too. The pan would need a different cut, but should work just fine.
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:58 PM   #14
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Okay....some more research. Stock airboxes are horribly expensive and I don't want to mess with cores. So, I'll finish my new shield, post some pics, and see what everyone thinks. It'll prolly go for less than that $60, too .
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:07 AM   #15
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I swear it's never been this fast. This is cool! Having plates done will help a lot. There'll be a template for machining later. I can make it do more...trust me . Keep in mind all of this is at 5200ft elevation. there's less air up here to scoop up in the first place. Rough prototypes like what you see here are where it starts. I still can't get over that angry snorting noise. Hondas just don't do this.

After playing around some more this afternoon, I found out how to make it read boost: LUG the engine slightly. ( Remember the car is still moving, therefore it's scooping air, even at low forward velocities and engine speeds.) The throttle is open more, releasing the restriction against the rammed air. The air isn't moving behind the throttle that fast at low revs. It can't quite take in all the air, so pressure builds up. But let the engine rev and the boost goes away. As soon as the engine is above about 2500rpm, pressure drops to just above ambient. The guage reads like it wants to sit on top of 0 rather than below it.

It only showed any kind of "boost pressure" at lower revs with more throttle. That lugging-boosted behavior could be mimicked at 60mph-ish in 5th gear. It rests a bit over 1psi rather than at 1psi. I don't think it's quite 2 but it's close. Drop a gear to 4th at 60 and it loudly flies straight to redline. Above 60mph in 5th it has that boost dropping behavior, but holds closer to 1psi. Over 3500rpm it always disappears to just above ambient, even in 5th. So, the gauge read boost under the way you wouldn't really drive it. Drive it right and the car is a whole lot faster. I pulled a dead bee out of it once. Heeeeeeerrrre birdy birdy birdy!

Some data logs from scanning software would be a very good idea. I've got a few folks close by that might want to try this. I didn't think that ugly thing would be this interesting when I put it back on. Ram air DOES work, but it can only do so much. It's not the e-ram of intakes ('cept for the picture...nevermind that one .)
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Old 10-12-2004, 08:54 AM   #16
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damn you, now you've got me thinking of ways to force more cold air into the fender area, but i do have an old trick from my supra, little dryer duct from somewhere in the front grill (behind some form of grill just to be safe from sucking in bees and such) into the front hole of the 2 where the cai goes into the fender,instead of pluging it up, i'll have to look more into this, i don't think i'll get much of a ram air effect, but i'll certainly supply a little more air to the area
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Old 10-12-2004, 03:40 PM   #17
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damn you guys and your non-maf cars
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:39 PM   #18
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