Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 29, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Pre-2002 Factory Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2004, 08:59 PM   #1
Papa Smirf
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 61702
Join Date: May 2004
Vehicle:
1997 impreza l 2.2
teailish blue

Default Dual Charging a 2.2t

I'm looking to dual charge a 2.2l turbo having a hard time finding info on dual charging. I'm going to try this for a design project for my engineering major. Wondering if anyone one has come across any good info?
Thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Papa Smirf is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-10-2004, 11:31 PM   #2
tooocool49723
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67127
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Belleville, MI
Vehicle:
3.3 I <3/h8 my GF3
1.8-2.5-2.2-2.5-2.2-3.3

Default

Theres some stuff out there, but not much. I think SCC magazine was going to dual-charge their mini, but I havent heard anything about that in months.

good luck, soulds like a fun project though, the low end of the supercharger and the top-end of the turbo...

Also, I believe that an older toyota used a dual-charging system stock, might want to check around the toyota boards too.

Also, some people call it "Twincharging" just so that you have that term to search for on google too.

Last edited by tooocool49723; 10-10-2004 at 11:39 PM.
tooocool49723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 12:07 AM   #3
rstalbot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62099
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Detroit, San Diego, Austin
Vehicle:
2003 WRX sedan
World Rally Blue

Default

wow, that sounds like a cool project. best of luck and keep us posted.
rstalbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 02:37 AM   #4
White 2.5rs
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 39936
Join Date: Jul 2003
Vehicle:
99RS TWE&SCAT EJ257
Hydra+HMist+PPG+35R=DEATH

Default

eh i wouldnt do it
FAT didnt seem to have good luck doing it
if ur just doing it to say u did it or for show, lead the way tho !
White 2.5rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 03:05 AM   #5
DoctorNick
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7022
Join Date: May 2001
Vehicle:
heh, DC ITCA are
my rides

Default

Honestly, with a small m62 style blower and a larger 1820 or 18g turbo, I think it would have a real nice power band. I remember the FAT TT kit had a problem with the turbos fighting each other. Would this be a problem with a blower style setup? Hmm, Mabye a design with an electronic clutch to the blower so you could disengauge it at certain load levels.
DoctorNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 03:29 AM   #6
subiekid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25516
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Send help, stuck in internet!
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy TURBO!!!
EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

Default

I thought FAT had a turbo for each bank (Parallel?)

Big turbo and small turbo would be better (series?)

but single turbo is always easier
subiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 03:57 AM   #7
DoctorNick
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7022
Join Date: May 2001
Vehicle:
heh, DC ITCA are
my rides

Default

easy = deciding on either low, middle or high end power.
A series setup certainly would give the advantage of a nice power-band at different loads. no?
*shrug* I would have really liked to have driven a Legacy b4 and seen what the problem was with there twin turbo setup.
DoctorNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 10:13 AM   #8
White 2.5rs
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 39936
Join Date: Jul 2003
Vehicle:
99RS TWE&SCAT EJ257
Hydra+HMist+PPG+35R=DEATH

Default

it might not be a problem but if u look at the cars that lay down serious power that ARENT 5-8 liter v8s, and v10s, and v12s, they mostly have single turbo conversions, a big t88 or something instead of 2 t67s or something
if you wanna do it tho itd be cool but i wouldnt all im sayin
White 2.5rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 10:33 AM   #9
Hitokiri
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2604
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CA
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RSt
RBP

Default

good tech twin turbo discussion here. Discussion got a little out of hand, but some good points were made.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=twin+turbo
Hitokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:41 AM   #10
tooocool49723
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67127
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Belleville, MI
Vehicle:
3.3 I <3/h8 my GF3
1.8-2.5-2.2-2.5-2.2-3.3

Default

Ok, now that other people have posted about a twin turbo setup, I have to ask myself, do you mean twin turbo? or do you mean setting up a supercharger and a turbocharger on the same engine?

On the electric clutch, Mercades has several turbochargers that use an electric clutch (think of your a/c compressor for an example of an electric clutch on a pulley) to dis-engage the supercharger. You can find them on e-bay pretty cheap. There was a guy on here a couple weeks ago posting about his supercharger setup using one of these superchargers on a subaru. Wont help you with the rest of the equation (the turbo and making it all work together) but it's a start.

Oh, and White 2.5rs, on the big turbo setup I have only 2 words for you...
TURBO LAG.
that is all.
tooocool49723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:52 AM   #11
White 2.5rs
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 39936
Join Date: Jul 2003
Vehicle:
99RS TWE&SCAT EJ257
Hydra+HMist+PPG+35R=DEATH

Default

yes i know but im saying to make big power thats what people are doing
White 2.5rs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 01:53 PM   #12
dwx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
2005 2012 Jeep
2013 DGM BRZ

Default

FAT has an 04 STI with a supercharger and turbo on it.
dwx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 01:57 PM   #13
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

bbb.legacycentral.org

There is a member there who has been putting together a supercharger kit for his old NA legacy. He claims it will bolt on in a couple of hours. And I figure that if you already have a factory EJ22T in the car, it is pretty likely his setup could be added to the turbo set up. This would liekly be the path of least resistance with a minimum of fabricating. It won't be one of these 600hp monsters the guys are discussing above, but you could likely take a factory 160hp Legacy turbo up to 260-275hp without even having to change out the teeny little vf-11 turbo that cam stock...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 12:17 AM   #14
Papa Smirf
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 61702
Join Date: May 2004
Vehicle:
1997 impreza l 2.2
teailish blue

Default

Bolt up an eaton stile supercharger with bypass valve send the pressurized side to cold side of turbo also create an auxilary circuit that bypasses the supercharger. To sink the two use a photoelectric timing light to gage how fast the turbo is moving rig it to open bypass and and open auxilarly curcuit at certain turbo rpm
Papa Smirf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 01:13 AM   #15
subiekid
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25516
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Send help, stuck in internet!
Vehicle:
1995 Legacy TURBO!!!
EJ22T/TEC3 & '12 Civic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
bbb.legacycentral.org

There is a member there who has been putting together a supercharger kit for his old NA legacy. He claims it will bolt on in a couple of hours. And I figure that if you already have a factory EJ22T in the car, it is pretty likely his setup could be added to the turbo set up. This would liekly be the path of least resistance with a minimum of fabricating. It won't be one of these 600hp monsters the guys are discussing above, but you could likely take a factory 160hp Legacy turbo up to 260-275hp without even having to change out the teeny little vf-11 turbo that cam stock...

reddevil posts everything in the AFI forum on here too.
subiekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 01:14 AM   #16
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

I am the guy with the Eaton m62 on my 90 legacy 2.2. With a 7.5" crank pulley, the boost is about 12 psi. Which with the instant on/off swith will give you that low rpm boost.

The setup works great and installs easily but you CAN NOT have ABS because this is where the supercharger and the intake goes.

While once I had everything built, it does only take about 2 - 2.5 hours to fully install, it took me about 20 hours to actually get everything made, not to mention the time to run around and get all the parts picked up and made.

If you are doing this on a true turbo motor, then you wont have the problems I had, such as blowing a hole in a piston due to lack of timing control.

I have spent about $1250 to start with to get where I am, and I am not done.

$230 = supercharger
$70 = rrfpr
$125 = wrx fuel pump
$135 = custom SC to Throttle body piping
$180 = custom intake using stock Mercedes Benz SC intake parts
$50 = Zex Intake filter (cone style)
$100 = Fuel solenoid, fuel jet and switches for adding extra fuel at high boost
$50 = 1/4" thick aluminium plate for mounting SC
$25 = correct belt for driving everthing
$350 = AWIC includes pump, radiator and parts
$325 = custom aluminium crank pulley to achieve 10-12 psi
$200 = Misc parts

$1840 Total .......Christ, I spent ALOT more than I thought. Don't call my wife!!!!

I also do not use the big crank pulley at this point. I am just using the stock crank pulley to push about 4-5 psi because I would need an aftermarket timing setup to keep the motor from detonation at high boost.
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 01:17 AM   #17
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Subiekid, you are correct! Hopefully I help/inform more than annoy/tickoff!
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 02:22 PM   #18
Matt Monson
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 832
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Teh Ghetto Garage, CO
Vehicle:
99 2.5RS, '85 911
'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

Default

I knew you were here, but couldn't remember your screenname. To me you are Douglas Vincent...
Matt Monson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 01:59 PM   #19
RS_to_WRX_swap
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 40337
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Bay Area
Vehicle:
95 L Coupe Swapped
99 Outback

Default

This is kinda random, but back in the day when i bailed hay; i saw this "tractor" that had a 16L deisel v12, with 2 super chargers and 2 turbos. That thing had an unmeasurable amount of torque. The motor was the size of a GC6.

My point is i wonder if a suby motor could even rev above idle turning a super charger, and blowing a turbo? The sizing of the super charger will be very critical. too small and the turbo will be blowing into a "drinking straw" too big and the starter will not turn it.
RS_to_WRX_swap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 02:43 PM   #20
tooocool49723
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67127
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Belleville, MI
Vehicle:
3.3 I <3/h8 my GF3
1.8-2.5-2.2-2.5-2.2-3.3

Default

that's a simple fix, have the turbo join the supercharger after the air is compressed. Have 1 intake, split it into 2 (or just have 2 to begin with) one to the turbo, one to the super. Then, keep the 2 systems seprate until the intake manifold/throttle body. Granted this way you dont get the additive boost, but still.

And either way, an elctric clutch would solve this problem, just dont flip the switch until your going.
tooocool49723 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 05:23 PM   #21
DoctorNick
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7022
Join Date: May 2001
Vehicle:
heh, DC ITCA are
my rides

Default

Hmm, would a bypass valve do the trick. Have it open at a certain PRM/load level and let the turbo just spin freely to produce whatever it can
DoctorNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2004, 05:04 AM   #22
ncarn8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71419
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default

quite a few people have done this on my side of the world. The easiest way was using a small supercharger of an early sprinter/trueno. Bolt it up where ure air con used to be and have the bypass valve open at 5 psi. Then blow the boosted air thru the turbos inlet and get a real soft w/gate spring at say 5psi, so u dont run the risk of over boosting madly. But y would u bother, with the added mechanical drag of the supercharger eating into your power. And u need a very efficient intercooler to counter ure WAY hot intake temps.
Oh yeah and Nissan made a super and turbo charged car back in the mid eighties, i think it was a gazelle or something. I think it made 90kw ish from a 1500cc fourcyl. Theres a good reason y there is no OEM setups like this in the last 20 years....... (not counting tractors)

Last edited by ncarn8; 10-22-2004 at 05:09 AM.
ncarn8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OR:FS - Misc Engine - V7 Cams / WRX Cams / WRX Rods / 2.2t Crank / 2.2t Rods mick_the_ginge Engine/Power/Exhaust 6 03-20-2007 02:17 PM
WTT: my auto 2.2T for your manual 2.2T shemoves South West Impreza Club Forum -- SWIC 1 02-27-2006 03:10 AM
where can i find info about a 2.2 to 2.2t swap? JoshP Subaru Conversions 1 08-27-2005 12:47 PM
anyone got a engine layin around? 2.5? 2.2? 2.2t? mcu81 Tri-State Area Forum 6 07-19-2002 11:36 PM
2.2t or 2.2 Adam M Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 6 07-04-2001 09:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.