Forester XT engine vs WRX STi engine

vhalin · 10-17-2004, 08:47 PM

Hi, I drive a WRX as a Daily Driver and an Eclipse GST as my enthuisiast car (only because the parts are cheaper, AWD > FWD) Now I'm selling both to get a new car. Mabye an EVO? Mabye an STI?

Im in a situation where I want a fast car but the person helping me buy it (my mother) wants me to have a safe car. She thinks the WRX STi is not safe enough, she wants me to get an SUV (Ughhh

) She doesnt mind me having a fast car, my last car was a modded GST so thats not a problem. Its just the part about being Safe. She demands I get an SUV. I read up on subaru of americas website and they both have a 2.5L turbocharged engine but one makes 300hp and the other makes 210. Then on In this forum we discuss both engines as if they were the same.

1. What are the differences between the two engines?
2. Hows the availibility on XT parts? Are they hard to find ?
3. What is the weight differences of these two cars?

Ive been into modding cars for a while and I always wanted to have a sleeper and I think the XT would be a perfect car to do it in.

Thanks

Matt

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

SolbergWRCfan · 10-17-2004, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vhalin

Hi, I drive a WRX as a Daily Driver and an Eclipse GST as my enthuisiast car (only because the parts are cheaper, AWD > FWD) Now I'm selling both to get a new car. Mabye an EVO? Mabye an STI?

Im in a situation where I want a fast car but the person helping me buy it (my mother) wants me to have a safe car. She thinks the WRX STi is not safe enough, she wants me to get an SUV (Ughhh

) She doesnt mind me having a fast car, my last car was a modded GST so thats not a problem. Its just the part about being Safe. She demands I get an SUV. I read up on subaru of americas website and they both have a 2.5L turbocharged engine but one makes 300hp and the other makes 210. Then on In this forum we discuss both engines as if they were the same.

1. What are the differences between the two engines?
2. Hows the availibility on XT parts? Are they hard to find ?
3. What is the weight differences of these two cars?

Ive been into modding cars for a while and I always wanted to have a sleeper and I think the XT would be a perfect car to do it in.

Thanks

Matt

Forrester: No AVCS, smaller turbo, less forged internals, weaker 5spd tranny, slightly heavier, similar modification potential.

The STi is no less safe than the Forrester and SUVs suck. Unless I needed to haul more things than the STi could hold I don't think there is any reason I would buy a Forrester XT.

Jon

nathansvt · 10-17-2004, 10:42 PM

The STi and the Forester use the same shortblock, and thus the same internals. The STi also has great crash-test ratings, although I suppose the added weight of the XT would help if you're hit by another large vehicle. I've got an STi and think that based on your past cars you'd likely be happier with the STi. But, the XT is cheaper and if your mom's going to be helping out it'd probably be nice to save her some $$. Also, they do make amazing sleepers. A set of springs, some nice rims, and a dark tint job makes it a mean looking car. FWIW, have you looked at the legacy GT?

supermarkus · 10-17-2004, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolbergWRCfan

Forrester: No AVCS, smaller turbo, less forged internals

Jon

Taken from Subaru's website:

Quote:

2.5-liter DOHC intercooled, turbocharged aluminum-alloy 16-valve 4-cylinder horizontally opposed Subaru Boxer engine with Active Valve Control System (AVCS). Iridium spark plugs. Sodium-filled exhaust valves.

They could be wrong. A subaru mechanic I talked to yesterday said they were the same long block, just different EM, IC, turbo, and intake color.

joebud · 10-17-2004, 10:54 PM

Forrester uses AVCS

fogdor · 10-17-2004, 11:14 PM

SUV's are not safe vehicles, get your friend to look at the facts. The fact is the WRX/STi and Forrester are all pretty much the same chassis and are all VERY chunky (3300+ lbs) and safe from a structural stiffness point of view.

speedypete · 10-17-2004, 11:46 PM

Basically the same engine except the Sti has a bigger turbo and intercooler. As far as weight goes the forester weighs 3225 lbs and the STI 3298 lbs.
As far as parts, not a problem...there are a ton of mods available.

BTW...the Forester isn't a suv. SOA uses that as marketing. Think of it as a tall Impreza wagon.

vhalin · 10-17-2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolbergWRCfan

Forrester: No AVCS, smaller turbo, less forged internals, weaker 5spd tranny, slightly heavier, similar modification potential.

The STi is no less safe than the Forrester and SUVs suck. Unless I needed to haul more things than the STi could hold I don't think there is any reason I would buy a Forrester XT.

Jon

What kind of turbo is on the forrester XT and how does it differ than the STi Turbo? Also what kind of potential is there to get a bigger turbo?
Im looking into something like
intake, exhaust, downpipe, uppipe, fuel pump, injectors, s-afc, mbc, front mount, exhaust manifold, o2 sensor housing

keep in mind i have yet to do a single mod to my WRX. Im living in the DSM world right now.

let me know what you guys think?

EDIT: my goals are to make STi numbers from the sound of things i need a bigger turbo but i dont know what kind of supporting mods ill need to do that.

Oi8ur5.0 · 10-18-2004, 12:18 AM

FXT is the best bang for the buck going. Period.

The engine is exactly the same. Injectors,AVCS etc. You are not paying for all the typical parts on an STI that would be upgraded for BIG power. e.g. Turbo,IC (allthough the STI ic seems like plenty for a top mount). FXT has a catted up pipe as where the STI does not.

Nathen from TXS stated that the UTEC was not limted to 7 K on the FXT ECU as it is on the STI ECU. So add that one to the plus column.

I'm 97% sure that the tranny is the previous version STI 5 spd. It is heads and tails better than a WRX 5 speed.....and better for straight line then the STI 6 spd gearing wise.(Allthough...I think the 6 spd is still stronger) It feels great.

I think the ride height is a very big factor in side impact worthiness...and that's one of the reason's the Forester in general is rated so high. But all of them are pretty good. While stopped in my REX......I was hit from behind by a guy doing 80+ MPH. The rex is gone....but I'm still here....and I pay a bunch more attention to crash ratings these days.

Anyways....dig this link to some pics of my black FXT with 17" SSR's..and an STI scoop.

http://www.subaruforester.com/viewtopic.php?t=5925

If you need handeling and as six spd....then you need an STI.

If you could find some fun with a sleeper Forester from Hell....it's a cheap option.

I'm a serious home depot, mountain bike, guitar's and amp's haulin nut. I can do that and get my Torque jones goin all at the same time.

(wipes tears away)

Oh.....and the 210 hp rating on the FXT is pure fiction. 240+ I'd say.

Oi8ur5.0 · 10-18-2004, 12:38 AM

"" my goals are to make STi numbers from the sound of things i need a bigger turbo but i dont know what kind of supporting mods ill need to do that.""

Stock Forester Turbo is the td04...exactly what's in a stock WRX.

Any mods available for the STI, fit the FXT...turbo's and all. Even STI suspension mods fit the FXT.

IF you just want STI type power...then buy a VF34 turbo from the STI guys who are upgrading. Replace your upipe...get a UTEC and exhaust...maybe a Top mount intercooler....and you'll eat stock STI's in the straights....big time.

Personally, I like broken drivetrain.....so I'm going for a Super zilla and the supporting cast.

vhalin · 10-18-2004, 03:17 AM

is an FMIC a good idea for a FXT? after researching im thinking; sti turbo, upgraded intercooler(not sure if FMIC or TMIC), downpipe, uppipe, exhaust, ebc and intake. how does that sound?

also, where is/are some good places/sites to get FXT parts from?

fmowry · 10-18-2004, 07:11 AM

FXT bumper won't easily allow a FMIC. Plenty of good topmount upgrades unless you're gonna go with a monster turbo.

Frank

DRNWAGN · 10-18-2004, 08:52 AM

Ok, I have an 04 FXT. Just finished some big upgrades! STI ecu, sti turbo (vf39), Perrin tmic, silicon hoses, Cusco catch can, Borla header, PDE up pipe, DN Performance turbo back 3" exhaust, Sti suspension, Sti tires, 17" rims (tsw), Cobb ss, Txs bov, txs intake, Greddy Gauges, tower braces and H brace.

So, with all of that said, it rolls with Sti's in stock trim if you will. It is quite fast and still has room for the family. The things you will not get are the nice bbs rims, larger brakes, cool looking interior (big debate as to whether or not the seats are nicer), sedan look verses wagon. You will have to do quite a bit of work to get the performance of the sti out of the fxt. But you can pick up most of the stuff fairly cheap if you look around. The ecu cost me about $500 shipped but others have picked them up for as little as $300.

You can check out www.subaruforester.com for more info on some of the upgrades that Forester guys have done. Basically, most of the stuff for the sti will fit the fxt. But the fmic is tricky due to the styling of the bumper and most exhausts for the wrx/sti are too short and need to be reworked by a local muffler shop.

If it was not for my wife complaining I would have bought the sti. I can only imagine what my sti would have been like with the same amount of money dumped in to it that I have put into the fxt. If I could do it again I would have an sti sitting in the driveway.

Maybe you need to print out some crash test information for your mom! That may help your situation some.

bluesubie · 10-18-2004, 09:38 AM

Since the others straightened the facts out on the engine, here are some crash test links for you.

Forester IIHS results
Impreza IIHS results
Forester NHTSA results
Impreza wagon NHTSA results

-Dennis

supermarkus · 10-18-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oi8ur5.0

IF you just want STI type power...then buy a VF34 turbo from the STI guys who are upgrading.

FWIW, I don't have a VF34, I'm pretty sure "STi guys" all have VF39s as the stock turbos here in North America.

xspeedrj · 10-18-2004, 11:16 AM

FYI

Don't get hung up on the 210 HP rating for the FXT. Not sure many people believe that noting the dynos that have been done so far (compared to the WRX and STI).

Read somewhere that a Subaru guy in Canada admitted the car comes with 250 HP like the other detuned 2.5L Subbies. Not gospel, but I would tend to believe it.

Oi8ur5.0 · 10-18-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supermarkus

FWIW, I don't have a VF34, I'm pretty sure "STi guys" all have VF39s as the stock turbos here in North America.

The way I write (and add), 4' and 9's are fluid substitutions for one another.

DRNWAGN: Are you running the stock STI tune with that ecu ? I'm curious as to why you made that ECU swap. Further EM plans ?

maestro · 10-18-2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolbergWRCfan

Forrester: No AVCS, smaller turbo, less forged internals, weaker 5spd tranny, slightly heavier, similar modification potential.

The STi is no less safe than the Forrester and SUVs suck. Unless I needed to haul more things than the STi could hold I don't think there is any reason I would buy a Forrester XT.

Jon

OMG, so wrong... Do the proper research before spreading misinformation.

Again:

Forester (with one R

)
- AVCS - same as STi
- internals - same as STi
- 5spd - stronger than WRX, but yes, weaker than STi
- weight - lighter than the STi
- it's not an SUV

The ONLY differences enginewise are 1) Turbo, 2) up-pipe, 3)ecu, 4)intercooler.

I just replaced the aforementioned 4 items last night plus some other goodies, and my Forester is now faster than a stock STi. And I can haul more stuff too. Ha.

vhalin · 10-20-2004, 10:52 AM

the XT is really lighter than the STi? what makes this possible?

supermarkus · 10-20-2004, 11:06 AM

The 6 speed tranny is like 80 lbs heavier if memory serves me correctly. And those 17" rims and big rotors certainly add some weight.

vhalin · 10-20-2004, 11:11 AM

I know my WRX has a carbon fibre hood does the XT have a CF hood too? My wrx doors are incredibly light. i could close them with my eyelids alone, can i expect the same from an XT?

Jitenshakun · 10-20-2004, 11:20 AM

The STi frame has been designed to acheive the same results as a roll cage, unlike any SUV. The only reason SUVs are "safer" in accidents is becasue when they hit a smaller car, i.e. a civic, they walk away with minor fender damage and the guy in the civic rolls away on a stretcher. If you check the crash testing on SUVs (i.e SUV vs. concrete wall) they don't fare so hot.

I realize this doens't address your performance questions but maybe your mom needs some new information.

You'll be very disappointed if you had the option to get an STi and went with a Forrester instead.

-J

Oi8ur5.0 · 10-20-2004, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vhalin

I know my WRX has a carbon fibre hood does the XT have a CF hood too? My wrx doors are incredibly light. i could close them with my eyelids alone, can i expect the same from an XT?

Your stock WRX hood is aluminum...not CF. I think the FXT has an aluminum hood as well....but I'm not sure. It feels light though.

Those WRX doors feel light when you have the added value of four case hardened bolts holding it up. Take those bolts out...and you best get your toes out of the way. They appear light..because the engineering is pretty darn good.

nathansvt · 10-20-2004, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jitenshakun

The STi frame has been designed to acheive the same results as a roll cage, unlike any SUV. -J

The STi is on the same unibody as every other impreza. I know they're good in crash tests (as is the XT), but the same as a roll cage? Don't think so.

zmw · 10-20-2004, 01:28 PM

Jitenshakun: that may be the most assinine thing I have ever seen someone post... the STI and forester and every other impreza line share the same unibody construction - your statement of it being built like a roll cage is retarded at best and completely and totally uninformed at worst.... although I could be wrong, maybe you should call the subaru WRC team and suggest the remove the roll cage to save a lot of weight?....

-Z

10-17-2004, 08:47 PM	#1
vhalin Scooby Specialist Member#: 21445 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: bay area, ca Vehicle: 08 STI silver	Forester XT engine vs WRX STi engine Hi, I drive a WRX as a Daily Driver and an Eclipse GST as my enthuisiast car (only because the parts are cheaper, AWD > FWD) Now I'm selling both to get a new car. Mabye an EVO? Mabye an STI? Im in a situation where I want a fast car but the person helping me buy it (my mother) wants me to have a safe car. She thinks the WRX STi is not safe enough, she wants me to get an SUV (Ughhh ) She doesnt mind me having a fast car, my last car was a modded GST so thats not a problem. Its just the part about being Safe. She demands I get an SUV. I read up on subaru of americas website and they both have a 2.5L turbocharged engine but one makes 300hp and the other makes 210. Then on In this forum we discuss both engines as if they were the same. 1. What are the differences between the two engines? 2. Hows the availibility on XT parts? Are they hard to find ? 3. What is the weight differences of these two cars? Ive been into modding cars for a while and I always wanted to have a sleeper and I think the XT would be a perfect car to do it in. Thanks Matt * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-18-2004, 12:18 AM	#9
Oi8ur5.0 Scooby Specialist Member#: 28910 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Frederick, MD Vehicle: 2013 REX DARK GREY	FXT is the best bang for the buck going. Period. The engine is exactly the same. Injectors,AVCS etc. You are not paying for all the typical parts on an STI that would be upgraded for BIG power. e.g. Turbo,IC (allthough the STI ic seems like plenty for a top mount). FXT has a catted up pipe as where the STI does not. Nathen from TXS stated that the UTEC was not limted to 7 K on the FXT ECU as it is on the STI ECU. So add that one to the plus column. I'm 97% sure that the tranny is the previous version STI 5 spd. It is heads and tails better than a WRX 5 speed.....and better for straight line then the STI 6 spd gearing wise.(Allthough...I think the 6 spd is still stronger) It feels great. I think the ride height is a very big factor in side impact worthiness...and that's one of the reason's the Forester in general is rated so high. But all of them are pretty good. While stopped in my REX......I was hit from behind by a guy doing 80+ MPH. The rex is gone....but I'm still here....and I pay a bunch more attention to crash ratings these days. Anyways....dig this link to some pics of my black FXT with 17" SSR's..and an STI scoop. http://www.subaruforester.com/viewtopic.php?t=5925 If you need handeling and as six spd....then you need an STI. If you could find some fun with a sleeper Forester from Hell....it's a cheap option. I'm a serious home depot, mountain bike, guitar's and amp's haulin nut. I can do that and get my Torque jones goin all at the same time. (wipes tears away) Oh.....and the 210 hp rating on the FXT is pure fiction. 240+ I'd say. Last edited by Oi8ur5.0; 10-18-2004 at 12:39 AM.

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10-17-2004, 10:42 PM	#3
nathansvt Scooby Specialist Member#: 28650 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: TXIC	The STi and the Forester use the same shortblock, and thus the same internals. The STi also has great crash-test ratings, although I suppose the added weight of the XT would help if you're hit by another large vehicle. I've got an STi and think that based on your past cars you'd likely be happier with the STi. But, the XT is cheaper and if your mom's going to be helping out it'd probably be nice to save her some $$. Also, they do make amazing sleepers. A set of springs, some nice rims, and a dark tint job makes it a mean looking car. FWIW, have you looked at the legacy GT?

10-17-2004, 10:54 PM	#5
joebud Scooby Newbie Member#: 55089 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: GoodSpeed Performance	Forrester uses AVCS

10-17-2004, 11:14 PM	#6
fogdor Scooby Specialist Member#: 45726 Join Date: Oct 2003 Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed3 Cosmic Blue	SUV's are not safe vehicles, get your friend to look at the facts. The fact is the WRX/STi and Forrester are all pretty much the same chassis and are all VERY chunky (3300+ lbs) and safe from a structural stiffness point of view.

10-17-2004, 11:46 PM	#7
speedypete Scooby Newbie Member#: 62012 Join Date: May 2004 Location: upstate NY Vehicle: 2004 FXT 5speed Cobb stage 2	Basically the same engine except the Sti has a bigger turbo and intercooler. As far as weight goes the forester weighs 3225 lbs and the STI 3298 lbs. As far as parts, not a problem...there are a ton of mods available. BTW...the Forester isn't a suv. SOA uses that as marketing. Think of it as a tall Impreza wagon.

10-18-2004, 12:38 AM	#10
Oi8ur5.0 Scooby Specialist Member#: 28910 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Frederick, MD Vehicle: 2013 REX DARK GREY	"" my goals are to make STi numbers from the sound of things i need a bigger turbo but i dont know what kind of supporting mods ill need to do that."" Stock Forester Turbo is the td04...exactly what's in a stock WRX. Any mods available for the STI, fit the FXT...turbo's and all. Even STI suspension mods fit the FXT. IF you just want STI type power...then buy a VF34 turbo from the STI guys who are upgrading. Replace your upipe...get a UTEC and exhaust...maybe a Top mount intercooler....and you'll eat stock STI's in the straights....big time. Personally, I like broken drivetrain.....so I'm going for a Super zilla and the supporting cast.

10-18-2004, 03:17 AM	#11
vhalin Scooby Specialist Member#: 21445 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: bay area, ca Vehicle: 08 STI silver	is an FMIC a good idea for a FXT? after researching im thinking; sti turbo, upgraded intercooler(not sure if FMIC or TMIC), downpipe, uppipe, exhaust, ebc and intake. how does that sound? also, where is/are some good places/sites to get FXT parts from?

10-18-2004, 07:11 AM	#12
fmowry Scooby Specialist Member#: 54604 Join Date: Feb 2004 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Severn, MD Vehicle: 2004 FXT Cayenne Red (sold)	FXT bumper won't easily allow a FMIC. Plenty of good topmount upgrades unless you're gonna go with a monster turbo. Frank

10-18-2004, 08:52 AM	#13
DRNWAGN Scooby Specialist Member#: 44255 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: G.Burg / NIH, MD Vehicle: 10 Scion TC	Ok, I have an 04 FXT. Just finished some big upgrades! STI ecu, sti turbo (vf39), Perrin tmic, silicon hoses, Cusco catch can, Borla header, PDE up pipe, DN Performance turbo back 3" exhaust, Sti suspension, Sti tires, 17" rims (tsw), Cobb ss, Txs bov, txs intake, Greddy Gauges, tower braces and H brace. So, with all of that said, it rolls with Sti's in stock trim if you will. It is quite fast and still has room for the family. The things you will not get are the nice bbs rims, larger brakes, cool looking interior (big debate as to whether or not the seats are nicer), sedan look verses wagon. You will have to do quite a bit of work to get the performance of the sti out of the fxt. But you can pick up most of the stuff fairly cheap if you look around. The ecu cost me about $500 shipped but others have picked them up for as little as $300. You can check out www.subaruforester.com for more info on some of the upgrades that Forester guys have done. Basically, most of the stuff for the sti will fit the fxt. But the fmic is tricky due to the styling of the bumper and most exhausts for the wrx/sti are too short and need to be reworked by a local muffler shop. If it was not for my wife complaining I would have bought the sti. I can only imagine what my sti would have been like with the same amount of money dumped in to it that I have put into the fxt. If I could do it again I would have an sti sitting in the driveway. Maybe you need to print out some crash test information for your mom! That may help your situation some.

10-18-2004, 09:38 AM	#14
bluesubie Scooby Guru Member#: 767 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: N.J. Vehicle: 04 FXT	Since the others straightened the facts out on the engine, here are some crash test links for you. Forester IIHS results Impreza IIHS results Forester NHTSA results Impreza wagon NHTSA results -Dennis

10-18-2004, 11:16 AM	#16
xspeedrj Scooby Newbie Member#: 34710 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Vehicle: 2004 Forester XT 5MT Java Black	FYI Don't get hung up on the 210 HP rating for the FXT. Not sure many people believe that noting the dynos that have been done so far (compared to the WRX and STI). Read somewhere that a Subaru guy in Canada admitted the car comes with 250 HP like the other detuned 2.5L Subbies. Not gospel, but I would tend to believe it.

10-20-2004, 10:52 AM	#19
vhalin Scooby Specialist Member#: 21445 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: bay area, ca Vehicle: 08 STI silver	the XT is really lighter than the STi? what makes this possible?

10-20-2004, 11:06 AM	#20
supermarkus Scooby Guru Member#: 6971 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Edmonds, Washington, USA Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi SSM	The 6 speed tranny is like 80 lbs heavier if memory serves me correctly. And those 17" rims and big rotors certainly add some weight.

10-20-2004, 11:11 AM	#21
vhalin Scooby Specialist Member#: 21445 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: bay area, ca Vehicle: 08 STI silver	I know my WRX has a carbon fibre hood does the XT have a CF hood too? My wrx doors are incredibly light. i could close them with my eyelids alone, can i expect the same from an XT?

10-20-2004, 11:20 AM	#22
Jitenshakun Scooby Specialist Member#: 61586 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: W. Canada Location: Alberta Vehicle: 2005 STi WI and all the goodies	The STi frame has been designed to acheive the same results as a roll cage, unlike any SUV. The only reason SUVs are "safer" in accidents is becasue when they hit a smaller car, i.e. a civic, they walk away with minor fender damage and the guy in the civic rolls away on a stretcher. If you check the crash testing on SUVs (i.e SUV vs. concrete wall) they don't fare so hot. I realize this doens't address your performance questions but maybe your mom needs some new information. You'll be very disappointed if you had the option to get an STi and went with a Forrester instead. -J

10-20-2004, 01:28 PM	#25
zmw Scooby Specialist Member#: 13181 Join Date: Dec 2001 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: The Schlit Vehicle: 97 Supra FAST	Jitenshakun: that may be the most assinine thing I have ever seen someone post... the STI and forester and every other impreza line share the same unibody construction - your statement of it being built like a roll cage is retarded at best and completely and totally uninformed at worst.... although I could be wrong, maybe you should call the subaru WRC team and suggest the remove the roll cage to save a lot of weight?.... -Z