Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday May 26, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-18-2004, 02:35 PM   #1
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default 2005 ECU OBD Requirements - Hurdles to Reflashing

I finally noticed today for the first time that CARB has imposed some interesting new OBD requirements that apply to 2005 model year and newer cars. From p. 64 of http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/obd02/fro1968-2.pdf:
Quote:
(4.6) Software Calibration Identification: On all vehicles, a software calibration identification number (CAL ID) for the diagnostic or emission critical powertrain control unit(s) shall be made available through the standardized data link connector in accordance with the SAE J1979 specifications. A unique CAL ID shall be used for every emission-related calibration and/or software set having at least one bit of different data from any other emission-related calibration and/or software set. Control units coded with multiple emission or diagnostic calibrations and/or software sets shall indicate a unique CAL ID for each variant in a manner that enables an off-board device to determine which variant is being used by the vehicle. Control units that utilize a strategy that will result in MIL illumination if the incorrect variant is used (e.g., control units that contain variants for manual and automatic transmissions but will illuminate the MIL if the variant selected does not match the type of transmission on the vehicle) are not required to use unique CAL IDs.

(4.7) Software Calibration Verification Number
(4.7.1) All 2005 and subsequent model year vehicles shall use an algorithm to calculate a calibration verification number (CVN) that verifies the on-board computer software integrity in diagnostic or emission critical electronically reprogrammable powertrain control units. The CVN shall be made available through the standardized data link connector in accordance with the SAE J1979 specifications. The CVN shall be capable of being used to determine if the emission-related software and/or calibration data are valid and applicable for that vehicle and CAL ID.

(4.7.2) Manufacturers shall request Executive Officer approval of the algorithm used to calculate the CVN. Executive Officer approval of the algorithm shall be based on the complexity of the algorithm and the difficulty in achieving the same CVN with modified calibration values.

(4.7.3) The CVN shall be calculated at least once per driving cycle and stored until the CVN is subsequently updated. Except for immediately after a reprogramming event or a non-volatile memory clear or for the first 30 seconds of engine operation after a volatile memory clear or battery disconnect, the stored value shall be made available through the data link connector to a generic scan tool in accordance with SAE J1979 specifications. The stored CVN value may not be erased when fault memory is erased by a generic scan tool in accordance with SAE J1979 specifications or during normal vehicle shut down (i.e., key off, engine off).

(4.7.4) For purposes of Inspection and Maintenance (I/M) testing, manufacturers shall make the CVN and CAL ID combination information available for all 2005 and subsequent model year vehicles in a standardized electronic format that allows for off-board verification that the CVN is valid and appropriate for a specific vehicle and CAL ID.
(4.8) Vehicle Identification Number: All 2005 and subsequent model year vehicles shall have the vehicle identification number (VIN) available in a standardized format through the standardized data link connector in accordance with SAE J1979 specifications. Only one electronic control unit per vehicle shall report the VIN to an SAE J1978 scan tool.
I guess it's possible that Subaru got a temporary exemption since some of their 2005 cars came out so early in the year. Anyhow, these regs would seem to make it much harder to reflash without detection. Even emissions testing that involves hooking up to the OBD computer could detect a reflash (if not done properly) and fail the car for having an out-of-spec ECU.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-18-2004, 03:15 PM   #2
Jaxx
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Boise,Idaho,USA
Vehicle:
The 93 Imp W/EJ20K
flat black

Default

as usual carb= teh devil
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2004, 05:56 PM   #3
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

I'm curious about whether and which 2005 Subaru ECUs support the OBD MODE $09 function (VIN, CIN [calibration ID number] and CVN [calibration vehicle number]). Anyone ever hook up a general scan tool and try to pull this info from a 2005 Subaru? Alternatively, for those with access to a 2005 Subaru Service manuals, does the Engine (Diagnostics) section dealing with an OBD-II General Scan Tool have any mention of the MODE $09 function and data?

If you can verify, yea or nay, please post the model and how you verified.
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2004, 07:40 PM   #4
KGreb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13463
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2012 Chevy Volt
Silver

Default

My 2005 Legacy GT Limited is reporting VIN, CVN, and CIN to my OBD-2.com laptop based scan tool. Hope the guys that have already reflashed their ECUs know about this!
KGreb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2004, 10:43 PM   #5
Jaxx
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Boise,Idaho,USA
Vehicle:
The 93 Imp W/EJ20K
flat black

Default

intersting this mght very well explain cobbs delay on the 05 access ports
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 12:15 AM   #6
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK buy Nates beans
westcoastroasting.com

Default

....but will using a UTEC show up in some way???
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 12:17 AM   #7
realwomble
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 49305
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2002 Stg.2 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

I don't see a problem here.

Reflashed ECU can report whatever it wants to whatever query. I.e. hardcoded response.

Unless there is some ROM area on the ECU which handles this function...

Edit: If the ROM part is true we're screwed. If not, then only folks that just change the mapping values would have a problem. People with the smarts to edit the ECU program code itself, can code around it.

Edit again: unless of course the ODB-2 standard includes commands for reading the ECU code/data area contents.... this seems unlikely, and if it was the case, then they wouldn't need to require the cars to support all this CVN/CIN stuff. Manuf would just supply code checksums to the emissions folks.

Last edited by realwomble; 10-19-2004 at 12:23 AM.
realwomble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 12:42 AM   #8
Delicious Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 1990
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

The stock ECU will be fine though I am going to bet any piggyback systems are going to run into problems as different values are being expected. Though pulling the ECU, doing a hard reset and driving it for a few days will probably resolve those problems.

Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
Delicious Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 12:55 AM   #9
realwomble
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 49305
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2002 Stg.2 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Hmm.

This thread is alarming...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&page=3&pp=25

Sounds like my "worst case" above may actually be the case, in a roundabout way (BIU?).
realwomble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 09:07 AM   #10
KGreb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13463
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2012 Chevy Volt
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skywalker
The stock ECU will be fine though I am going to bet any piggyback systems are going to run into problems as different values are being expected. Though pulling the ECU, doing a hard reset and driving it for a few days will probably resolve those problems.

Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
Bill, how would this be the case? The way I read the document is that only areas of the flash will be checksummed - ie the base tables, not the corrections kept in SRAM. I would think the piggybacks would have fewer problems, not more.
KGreb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 01:34 PM   #11
Delicious Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 1990
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGreb
Bill, how would this be the case? The way I read the document is that only areas of the flash will be checksummed - ie the base tables, not the corrections kept in SRAM. I would think the piggybacks would have fewer problems, not more.
I can see how you would think that and agree that with this thought the piggyback would have less problems if any at all. Though the way I am reading it is a little bit different. My thoughts are they are always trying to crack down on aftermarket engine management enhancements. Some of the most common things are piggyback systems and reflashes.

I just took a deeper look into this with the stock reflash the main concern is the "standardized electronic format that allows for off-board verification that the CVN is valid." Since the ECU can be recalibrated now the real problem will be when they recheck the the values versus the values they have in house at the DMV smog station. Though the stock map can be put back into place.

The problem I see with the Piggyback, if left on of course, would be that the stock ECU is trying to adjust it's values to meet a certain range between two border points. With the new criteria what I could see happening is that a piggyback will go beyond these points to get optimal horsepower. Currently this is not a big problem, as most piggybacks intercept the CEL's now. Though later on down the road with implementations in the ECU would cause the ECU to be on the lookout for more of this, and will be a little bit harder on the piggyback so make sure that the car stays within it's limits and running. Otherwise a CEL will pop up and could cause the car to go into a limp mode until the problem is resolved. Basically the OEM will become a lot more strick about what it recieves back from the engine, it will expect something within a very clear range and if it is not there on all sensors then it will throw up some CEL and possibly if really strick, the car will go into limp mode.

Currently the problem with piggybacks is not there nearly at all. Though I can see where this is leading, as they need to crack down on such awful polluters. Don't mind the big ass diesel trucks on the highway puffing out black smoke for all of us to breath. Don't mind the fact that they have no restrictions at all. The CARB laws are going to get so tough that piggybacks possibly even reflashes will not work. Though a lot will depend on how big this industry really is and how much aftermarket performance can push back on other markets. The trucking company's are very big and have not had smog restrictions for many years now, so they are finding another culprit to blame.

It is getting political now, you know the aftermarket industry is doing well then.

Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
Delicious Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 02:23 PM   #12
nmyeti
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4980
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Default

This looks more like a checksum calculation from the rom-file.

In any case we've had a UTEC being tested on a 2005 legacy for about a month without any CELs or anything out of the ordinary.

-Nathan
nmyeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 02:40 PM   #13
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

I just checked a 2004MY Impreza service manual and, guess what, OBD-II Mode $09 is documented as supported for both the WRX and the STi. Mode $09 was never mentioned in either the 2002MY or the 2003MY Impreza service manual. So it looks like Subaru introduced support for VIN, CVN and CIN earlier than required.

Here's a simple test for 2004 WRX or STi owners who have both a scan tool and an AccessPort. Pull the Mode $09 data with the scan tool. Divorce the AccessPort. Pull the Mode $09 data again. Did the CVN change?
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 02:52 PM   #14
realwomble
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 49305
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2002 Stg.2 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Here's a simple test for 2004 WRX or STi owners who have both a scan tool and an AccessPort. Pull the Mode $09 data with the scan tool. Divorce the AccessPort. Pull the Mode $09 data again. Did the CVN change?
Actually that probably won't tell us a lot.

This (from Bill's post) is the problem:

....." I just took a deeper look into this with the stock reflash the main concern is the "standardized electronic format that allows for off-board verification that the CVN is valid"

and we won't know if it's really being used until the technology reaches smog stations.
realwomble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 03:16 PM   #15
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realwomble
Actually that probably won't tell us a lot.

This (from Bill's post) is the problem:

....." I just took a deeper look into this with the stock reflash the main concern is the "standardized electronic format that allows for off-board verification that the CVN is valid"

and we won't know if it's really being used until the technology reaches smog stations.
Subaru will/has supplied a list of calibration ID numbers and, for each calibration id number, the calibration vehicle number to expect to see if the ECU hasn't been tampered with. I imagine that Subaru dealers have this info, too.

What my little experiment would tell us is whether or not Cobb's reflash does anything to short circuit the CVN calculation or reporting so that a reflashed ECU continues to report the pre-reflash CVN value. If not, then there's a problem.
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 03:53 PM   #16
ataac_flat04
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 19050
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Hannibal, MO
Vehicle:
2005 Black STi
Happily rowing 6 gears

Default

Kinda OT, but skywalker... on highway trucks do indeed have emissions standards to meet nowadays. We just had a bunch of engines in our shop that were manufactured earlier this year that we couldn't sell because they did not meet emissions. To put them in a truck, special aftercoolers and (get this) catalytic converters had to be fitted to make them legal. Not to mention special actions taken by OEM's lately to reduce NOx and particulate emissions via cooled EGR and compound turbocharging. And most all on highway engines and a lot of off highway engines have gone to electronic control of fueling and burn a lot cleaner than the old mechanical engines, even at full load. There's all kinds of cool tricks a tech can do on the electronic controlled engines. Kinda kin to going from carb to EFI on a gasoline engine. Just thought I'd throw that out there. -Chuck
ataac_flat04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 04:39 PM   #17
realwomble
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 49305
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
2002 Stg.2 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
Subaru will/has supplied a list of calibration ID numbers and, for each calibration id number, the calibration vehicle number to expect to see if the ECU hasn't been tampered with. I imagine that Subaru dealers have this info, too.

What my little experiment would tell us is whether or not Cobb's reflash does anything to short circuit the CVN calculation or reporting so that a reflashed ECU continues to report the pre-reflash CVN value. If not, then there's a problem.
Even if Cobb does do so, there is still a potential problem.

You're assuming an onboard calculation and a very simple tool that just queries the ECU for the numbers.

However, if there is a standardized way to access the ECU memory from an offboard tool to checksum the data, then it doesn't really matter what the ECU reports. This is what the quote in Bill's post implies.

I'd assume they (ECU designers) would have considered the possibility of reflashed code reporting an "incorrect" ID. The only way around that is offboard checksum calculation, so it seems likely that this is infact what will be used in the more "advanced" tools to verify program integrity.

Last edited by realwomble; 10-19-2004 at 04:44 PM.
realwomble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 08:46 PM   #18
Delicious Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 1990
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ataac_flat04
Kinda OT, but skywalker... on highway trucks do indeed have emissions standards to meet nowadays. We just had a bunch of engines in our shop that were manufactured earlier this year that we couldn't sell because they did not meet emissions. To put them in a truck, special aftercoolers and (get this) catalytic converters had to be fitted to make them legal. Not to mention special actions taken by OEM's lately to reduce NOx and particulate emissions via cooled EGR and compound turbocharging. And most all on highway engines and a lot of off highway engines have gone to electronic control of fueling and burn a lot cleaner than the old mechanical engines, even at full load. There's all kinds of cool tricks a tech can do on the electronic controlled engines. Kinda kin to going from carb to EFI on a gasoline engine. Just thought I'd throw that out there. -Chuck
Thanks for informing me. I guess I must just see the crappy trucks then. I always see black smog pumping out of those trucks when they are going up a hill, though not all of them. Though I appreciate the update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmyeti
This looks more like a checksum calculation from the rom-file.

In any case we've had a UTEC being tested on a 2005 legacy for about a month without any CELs or anything out of the ordinary.

-Nathan
I agree with this statement, as of right now nothing will be affected as there are solutions to the problem. Though there is a point to where everything will be restricted enough that it will makes piggyback systems tough to use and even reflashing a very tough thing to accomplish with smog.

I am not so much worried about now, but about 2-3 year from now, say 2008 when ODB-III comes out. What are we to expect?

Cheers,
Bill Knose
Lead Tuner
I-Speed USA
Delicious Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2004, 10:59 PM   #19
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

skywalker, you've so far skated around the issue of whether an EcuTeK reflash preserves the original calibration vehicle number. Surely you have an OBD scan tool to check this on 2004+ turbo ECUs that you're reflashing. If the original CVN isn't preserved, then your customers could have a rude surprise come emissions inspection time.
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 10:58 AM   #20
jimmy1995
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 68191
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT]
skywalker, you've so far skated around the issue of whether an EcuTeK reflash preserves the original calibration vehicle number. Surely you have an OBD scan tool to check this on 2004+ turbo ECUs that you're reflashing. If the original CVN isn't preserved, then your customers could have a rude surprise come emissions inspection time.
I'd like the answer to that question also. May decide my EM choice.
jimmy1995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 12:03 PM   #21
StiDreams
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 26315
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: On the grassy knoll.
Vehicle:
07 Outback
Silver/Silver

Default

This is very bad news.

(4.7.2) Manufacturers shall request Executive Officer approval of the algorithm used to calculate the CVN. Executive Officer approval of the algorithm shall be based on the complexity of the algorithm and the difficulty in achieving the same CVN with modified calibration values.

This makes it sound like the key generated (CVN) will be unique. The algorithm used should be sufficiently complex so that you can't create another set of bits inside the flash that would generate the same key using this algorithm. If algorithm is sufficiently complex and the key is big enough (triple DES with 1024 bit key or the like), you would never be able to generate a flash file that would create the same key. The only way around this would be to restore the OEM code and reverse all the modifications when you have to do smog. I have always thought that it would come to this. It just sucks that it is now going to be reality.
StiDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 01:58 PM   #22
StiDreams
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 26315
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: On the grassy knoll.
Vehicle:
07 Outback
Silver/Silver

Default

Hey Jon[in CT],

What should we expect to see from pulling $09 ? Is it going to be something legable or just some binary garbage?
StiDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 02:17 PM   #23
big_adventure
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 40501
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Paris, FR
Vehicle:
2005 Decathalon 21sp
One WheelSeanPower

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StiDreams
This is very bad news.

(4.7.2) Manufacturers shall request Executive Officer approval of the algorithm used to calculate the CVN. Executive Officer approval of the algorithm shall be based on the complexity of the algorithm and the difficulty in achieving the same CVN with modified calibration values.

This makes it sound like the key generated (CVN) will be unique. The algorithm used should be sufficiently complex so that you can't create another set of bits inside the flash that would generate the same key using this algorithm. If algorithm is sufficiently complex and the key is big enough (triple DES with 1024 bit key or the like), you would never be able to generate a flash file that would create the same key. The only way around this would be to restore the OEM code and reverse all the modifications when you have to do smog. I have always thought that it would come to this. It just sucks that it is now going to be reality.
Well, it might not be so bad, really. Remember, most big industry counts on DCMA (in the US) and the EU's copyright infringement laws to protect proprietary encryption. Thus, they usually don't bother making it particularly strong.

The way it reads, it indicates that the tester will request the coded response, but it does not indicate that the response must consider the request. They will probably use something relatively simple, like CRC-32 or maybe a one-way hash function on a checksum result. Either would make it statistically unlikely that the user could duplicate the results in flash. However, with enough control over the code, or with any piggyback, you will probably be able to just duplicate the "stock" value when it spits the code back to the tester.

All bets are off when OBD-II changes to -III, however. At that point, I would imagine, if they are serious about stopping modders, that they will build in a challenge-response system. The tester will generate an initialization vector value, which will likely be concatenated (or XOR'd) with the checksum value, then encoded by another function. This will make breaking it a lot harder, without access to the guts of the testing equipment.

All that said, a piggyback should still have no problems, provided it does not interfere with OBD-II or -III responses.

-Sean
big_adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 05:10 PM   #24
Jon [in CT]
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 2992
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut, USA
Vehicle:
02 WRX Sedan
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StiDreams
Hey Jon[in CT],

What should we expect to see from pulling $09 ? Is it going to be something legable or just some binary garbage?
You should expect to see your 17 character VIN in the form of an alphanumeric character string. As for the Calibration ID, let me quote from this post, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=403, part of the very long STi Ping Fix thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by suby2nr
Up to 06/03 production dates the dealer has only seen earlier Calibration ID numbers, the first STi off the truck with the current Reflash calibration code came in last week with an 07/03 production date. Most likely it was flashed in transit so production dates may not be accurate.

The CID number is the only accurate way to determine if it has the current updated Flash, the Dealers Select Monitor is used to pull up the CID from the OBD menu.

The first 8 digits are the CID,
the current Reflash (AKA ping fix) CID is A2ZJ700J,
earlier CIDs would be example A2ZJ500J, A2ZJ500A, etc.
So Calibration ID is an alphanumeric character string.

I expect that Calibration Vehicle Number is sent as a fixed binary value and is displayed as either decimal number or an hex number.
Jon [in CT] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 05:28 PM   #25
KGreb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13463
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2012 Chevy Volt
Silver

Default

From my scans, I saw:
VIN: 17 digit alphanumeric
CIN: 8 digit alphanumeric
CVN: 8 digits, could be full alphanumeric but mine is only hex digits
KGreb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Emissions Test: OBD Scanner Fails to access ECU Blitzkrieg Service & Maintenance 4 07-18-2009 11:25 PM
I Need Someone To Reflash Ecu To Stock fluxcapacitor Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 10 02-01-2008 04:52 PM
02 ABS ECU replacement doesn't require dealer to bleed, right? Noizemaker Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 03-22-2006 01:30 PM
Subaru to reflash ECU teamipr STi Forum Archive 44 06-30-2003 01:56 PM
750 Bucks to reflash my ECU ?!?! ITWRX4ME Engine Management & Tuning 71 12-23-2002 09:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.