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Old 10-20-2004, 02:01 AM   #1
advanracing62
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Default 1.8 build questions- la few-

I'm inheriting a 1.8 as a project, the locals want to see me work this into a 200whp motor.

1- crank swapping, can I get an EJ20 crank and put it in there? guessing rods and maybe pistons would have to go in as well.
2- cams, who makes some and how good are they? If no one, then is there anything that can be used in place of 1.8 stock cams?
3- block decking and plating, anyone have a source for deck plates on Subaru motors?

I'm thinking that 200whp should be totally possible with this motor. First goal is NA, then FI if need be... but there's got to be a way to do it all motor... just got to figure it out. If anyone has anything they can tell me about how to get to this goal please interject. Don't tell me it can't be done, because I'll do it and prove you wrong.. I'm used to it, so if you really feel that way then say so, but you've been warned
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Old 10-20-2004, 03:08 AM   #2
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13:1 compression, Huge cams and a 9k revlimit. That should get you close to 200HP. Many folks regard the 1.8 motor as not worth the effort. Good luck if you decide to take this challenge on!

Jay Storm
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Old 10-20-2004, 06:36 AM   #3
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the guy to talk to is subachad...and there's some guy with a turboed 1.8L out of jax...gulf livery IIRC...

sjd
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Old 10-20-2004, 10:45 AM   #4
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hey its NEVER gonna happen if you don't come pick it up

it will never make 200 WHP in an awd car maybe 175 (wrx ish)
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Old 10-20-2004, 11:15 AM   #5
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going NA with those sad excuse for heads is going to present a major problem. Then the compression ratio is going to be your next one.
Swap heads, either RS or WRX, cam of course, then get higher compression pistons, being you want to keep 1.8 right? of course ignition, fuel, and air will be making the power, now to harness it all in and get it running right, you need engine management or piggy back of some sort. Get lightened and underdriven pulleys, lightened flywheel, grounding kit. The drivetrain will limit the 200whp mark because of its inefficiency.
take it easy, Micah
I would like to see how much you can get out of the 1.8L
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Old 10-20-2004, 05:32 PM   #6
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This sort of build is a waste of money. It will cost you more to get it to stock WRX power levels as an NA than to swap in a WRX engine.

But doing it FI wouldn't be that expensive. I have some USDM Legacy Turbo heads that I will sell you if you want to go the FI route and want an easy solution for oil and coolant jacking, not to mention a turbo cam. And before anyone pipes in how poorly those heads flow, I should mention that they flow better than USDM EJ205 heads do!
And here's my evidence to back it up:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/sohc/page2.html
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/techtips.htm
hit the last link on the page of the MRT site for flow numbers on the EJ205 heads. Even ported EJ205 heads don't outflow USDM EJ22T heads...
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Old 10-21-2004, 12:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
This sort of build is a waste of money. It will cost you more to get it to stock WRX power levels as an NA than to swap in a WRX engine.

But doing it FI wouldn't be that expensive. I have some USDM Legacy Turbo heads that I will sell you if you want to go the FI route and want an easy solution for oil and coolant jacking, not to mention a turbo cam. And before anyone pipes in how poorly those heads flow, I should mention that they flow better than USDM EJ205 heads do!
And here's my evidence to back it up:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/sohc/page2.html
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/techtips.htm
hit the last link on the page of the MRT site for flow numbers on the EJ205 heads. Even ported EJ205 heads don't outflow USDM EJ22T heads...
well damn if these tests are correct, the australian EJ205 heads do flow less than that of the EJ22G heads
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Old 10-21-2004, 07:12 AM   #8
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Some of the research that I have done says that the 1.8 has the same crank and rods as the early EJ207's. I havn't seen anything on the block but I'm sure it could be improoved upon, but I doubt it's much weeker than an EJ205. You could have the cylender sleeves bored to fit forged 2L pistons, swap over a set of high flow heads that can be used for forced induction, and use the WRX ECU and wiring harness. Basicaly use everything from an EJ205 except for the pistons. So it can be done. But don't you think that it would be cheaper and quicker to just do an EJ205 (WRX) swap?
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:22 AM   #9
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the EJ18 block has cylinder walls that are 9mm thick!!! I too have heard and been told the crank and rods of the early EJ18 's are of the EJ20g's and K's
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:40 AM   #10
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Things you don't need to change would be the crank and rods. They're the forged ones that were in the early STIs. The block is also a semi-closed deck design.

All motor would be sweet, but I don't see it happening. Go turbo. Low compression pistons need to go in. If you wanna do something sweet, swap in the WRX heads to DOHC. If you wanna stay low in your budget, just get some work done on the heads. The heads of the EJ18 are what really hold it back from being anymore powerful.

Lighten as much as possible, even inside the car. It might actually be a good idea to go FWD. Not sure of the flywheel and clutch options there, if any.

I'm a EJ18T guy. I was FWD but now am AWD. I'll definately be following this thread though.

Brent
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Old 10-21-2004, 03:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
the EJ18 block has cylinder walls that are 9mm thick!!! I too have heard and been told the crank and rods of the early EJ18 's are of the EJ20g's and K's
All of the older phase I EJ series engines had forged cranks and rods...
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Old 10-21-2004, 06:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
All of the older phase I EJ series engines had forged cranks and rods...
yeah, I figure if the EJ18 had it the 22 would as well.
good fact to know
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:01 PM   #13
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Does any ej, eg engine not have forged crank and rods?
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Old 10-21-2004, 11:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubaru
Does any ej, eg engine not have forged crank and rods?
I don't know, you may want to ask on www.subaru-svx.net
take it easy, Micah
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:26 AM   #15
Scoobie Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
This sort of build is a waste of money. It will cost you more to get it to stock WRX power levels as an NA than to swap in a WRX engine.

But doing it FI wouldn't be that expensive. I have some USDM Legacy Turbo heads that I will sell you if you want to go the FI route and want an easy solution for oil and coolant jacking, not to mention a turbo cam. And before anyone pipes in how poorly those heads flow, I should mention that they flow better than USDM EJ205 heads do!
And here's my evidence to back it up:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/sohc/page2.html
http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/techtips.htm
hit the last link on the page of the MRT site for flow numbers on the EJ205 heads. Even ported EJ205 heads don't outflow USDM EJ22T heads...
Unfortunately the flow numbers from mrt are useless, they do not state how the heads were flowed. Cobb states they performed thier tests at 28" of H2O. MRT numbers could be flow numbers at any number of inches of H2O or Hg

IE. flow of suby heads at 10" of H2O http://www.sdsefi.com/air19.html

I do agree that this build is a waste of time & money. The only thing an ej18 is good for is squirting it with a 100 shot.

Last edited by Scoobie Steve; 10-22-2004 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 10-22-2004, 12:46 PM   #16
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ok so this has definately piqued my interest..

can anyone point me to confirmation that the EJ18 from say a 1995 L is indeed forged internals and closed deck ?

Anyone got any decent info on the engines ?
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Old 10-22-2004, 01:59 PM   #17
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it not a closed deck ... forged crank and rods yes but otherwise no
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx
it not a closed deck ... forged crank and rods yes but otherwise no
I second the it's not a closed deck.
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Old 10-22-2004, 02:50 PM   #19
Matt Monson
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[quote=Scoobie Steve]Unfortunately the flow numbers from mrt are useless, they do not state how the heads were flowed. Cobb states they performed thier tests at 28" of H2O. MRT numbers could be flow numbers at any number of inches of H2O or Hg
QUOTE]

That is part of why I have been putting this out there. I am fishing for other people that have flowed the EJ205 heads to pipe in with more numbers. As I always say, I don't care if I am right or wrong, I just want to know the right answer. If someone has numbers on these, please pipe in. And I should have valve sizes on these heads by Sunday. I have the EJ22T and NA heads in my garage and recently measured them. Once we get the heads of MadWRX's block, I will be able to measure them as well. I know the ports are bigger, which suggests to me that MRT's #'s are low, but still want to know how big the valves are...

PS. SVX rods are the same as the EJ series rods, and IIRC the pistons are the same as the NA EJ22. A few guys have put EJ22T rods in SVX's for turbo builds to drop the CR. Legos...
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Old 10-22-2004, 03:02 PM   #20
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Isn't it semi-closed deck?
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