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Old 10-24-2004, 09:13 PM   #1
Matrix 1193
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 68286
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI
Pearl White

Default First Time Tuning Hydra

This kinda started on another thread and was told to start my own. I am a serious NOOB to tuning in the flesh, sorry to everyone out there so please don't post about how I dont know anything. I dont, I know that. And for the meantime this is the situation that I am in. Lecturing me on how I am gonna screw my only car up doesn't help either. I am taking baby steps and the car is running great right now with only my idle adjustments. base map was clutch.

2002 WRX
Helix Up
Helix Down
Espelir JGT500
Map is not tuned

I have no tuning experience, but i have been reading tuning books like crazy so I have the terminalogy but no practical experience. I wanna lean the fuel out to make Best lean torque, add timing but I dont want to push it on pump gas, keep things around 12.5 until I watch someone tune it on the dyno on higher octane.

first questions are general.

When looking at the fuel map, colors mean

blue: cells that I have hit
yellow: cell that i am on
Red: ? the background is red but there is this darker red color usually for the bottom corner, low load, rpm, what does the darker red color mean.

Anyone using a pyrometer to measure EGTs?

I easily hit 20 PSI in 3,4,5 and sustain it from 5800 up to 7, I have done this once. I was under the impression the stock turbo couldn't hit this high, is it bad to go this high? I did this just once, and dont plan to do it again. I am just waiting for time on the dyno with someone from XX tuning.

ISC

I had to turn the Proportional way down to like 115. It idles at 1k is that too high? Integral is 130 and that keeps the spike at around 1800 give or take but its not the same every time I start my car, why?. The car will idle fine for long time but then starts to oscillate, obviously with the Proportional turned down it doesn't do it as bad but I am confused why the car will oscillate at random times.

I haven't touched the fuel map at all, it looks rich, I stay under 14 and under high load conditions stay around 11. I hear a popping noise, it sound like its coming from right underneath me, sometimes when I come of the throttle, I assume that this is just unburnt fuel combusting in the DP. Its not all the time, sometimes it happens when I start the car after I had stopped it in the last 15 minutes. I am just checking. Again, from everything I read I know its backfire but, just checking to be sure .
How much should I worry about pushing the car until I see the flash of the CEL to indicate knock?

These are my starter questions since I have only been observing what the car is doing and adjusting idle and start. I am all about baby steps. But I am truely impressed... after some initial install problems, "faulty wiring harness" , it was plug and play. No hesitation anywhere and boost feels smooth but BIG, unlike stock ECU, which from what I read is truely amazing since I imagined alot of tuning was necessary to smooth out the fuel map to take into consideration that I dont have the larger injectors, and this is the base map from hydra, not the one Phil had for my car, that will be tomorrow phil . The car feels much quicker, boost comes on earlier and i am starting to get the neck snapping feeling, and it is crack let me tell you. This isnt the sort of psychological effect for justifying my 1600$ purchase. The car is way faster than it was before. In the end, If anyone has any numbers or adjustments or constructive critisism that would be greatly apprieciated. Any info would be key. I have been studying books by Jeff Hartman on "How to Tune EMS, and Forced Induction Tuning by A GRAM BELL. great books and have helped me tons. thanks guys
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Old 10-24-2004, 10:06 PM   #2
jblaine
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Member#: 8512
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: St. Pete, FL
Vehicle:
2002 WRX chassis...
stage-infinity.com

Default

I'm amazed to hear you made it through 5800-7000 at 20psi, 3 gears, on pump gas, and the stock fuel system without calling a tow truck.

Putting an untuned standalone ECU in your car stage-2-like car and romping on the gas while watching the boost gauge hit 20psi 3 times is the dumbest thing I've heard someone admit in a few weeks.

Good luck. I hope you get it all worked out sooner than later.
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Old 10-24-2004, 10:26 PM   #3
Matrix 1193
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 68286
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI
Pearl White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine
I'm amazed to hear you made it through 5800-7000 at 20psi, 3 gears, on pump gas, and the stock fuel system without calling a tow truck.

Putting an untuned standalone ECU in your car stage-2-like car and romping on the gas while watching the boost gauge hit 20psi 3 times is the dumbest thing I've heard someone admit in a few weeks.

Good luck. I hope you get it all worked out sooner than later.
I was shocked and amazed and scared, no knock, no sound just smooth sailin. I mean, these arent boost "gauges" I am reading they are the gauges in the nemesis program. i went from 20 to 140 in what seemed like a 2 seconds it was ridiculous, it was stupid, but boy was it amazing. it took a while to get to 140 on stock setup, I watched the AFRs and it never went above 12...
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:11 AM   #4
Element Tuning
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Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Matrix 1193,

You made a serious mistake running the Hydra base map. As I told you do not run that! If what you're saying about 20 psi is true you could have already caused serious damage.

A. Knock thresholds are way off (that's why you see no knock)
B. 20 PSI is way to much boost for a stock turbocharger
C. 11:1 AFR is way to lean for 20 psi with stock turbocharger
D. There isn't enough ignition timing in that map which could cause extremely high egts while running at the speeds mentioned.
E. And the other 1000 things we change..

Put the Element map in ASAP! You should only attempt to tune off of the Element base map. Use the AutoTune to set the AFR according to what we programmed into the Target AFR.

Also don't tune your car to 12.5:1 AFR on pump gas! If you need help tuning be patient, call or send and email. You are a beginning tuner which is great but you should not attempt to tune beyond your understanding.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:07 AM   #5
Matrix 1193
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Member#: 68286
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Vehicle:
2006 WRX STI
Pearl White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning
Matrix 1193,

You made a serious mistake running the Hydra base map. As I told you do not run that! If what you're saying about 20 psi is true you could have already caused serious damage.

A. Knock thresholds are way off (that's why you see no knock)
Just for my own understanding I spent most of friday, comparing the two maps and the first thing I did was lowered the knock threshold to what you had set in your map, i was still skiddish about the keys failing with the Element map, (which I understand now). On saturday I started with the ELement map the car idled really funny, like spike 2300, 900 1200 stall. I thought something was wrong I followed the adjustment directions for ISC it just seemed way rougher than when I started it with the Hydra base. Thats why i was using the Hydra map. I went back to yours after correcting stuff. I have been running the the element map in autotune for two days now, its running good. I had also thrown in some Toulene, 2 gals, I thought just to be safe. Hopefully someone can tune it this week, xx tuning says they are booked. So after that brief moment of stupidity, i dont go much above 3-4k till the thing gets a proper job. I have not experienced any knock whatsoever, 1 CEL flash for Det, 4 Flashes for Heavy det, correct?. I will pull the plugs tomorrow and look for any evidence of detonation, specs of metal on the plug, correct? What about the darker color red in the fuel map?

Last edited by Matrix 1193; 10-25-2004 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:59 PM   #6
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Ok, that's good to hear. If you've reset the knock thresholds you're most likely ok for detonation.

If you idle is jumping like that it sounds like the TPS settings are off. Make sure you use the zero cal and wot cal for the TPS settings (click the enter button and be sure to save and download them).

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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