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Old 06-26-2001, 10:37 AM   #1
RageHardIntoTheBendies
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Default Phantomgrip LSD

Just emailed phantom grip and they said they have application for the Impreza. Anyone have any experience with these units?
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Old 06-26-2001, 10:50 AM   #2
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Is this a front or rear diff application?
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Old 06-26-2001, 10:51 AM   #3
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Are you doing street, or off-road? An open diff is much better for street applications.
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Old 06-26-2001, 10:56 AM   #4
RageHardIntoTheBendies
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I'm assuming front and rear as thats what I asked for.
Quote:
Are you doing street, or off-road? An open diff is much better for street applications
Why would you say that? I much rather have 4 wheels driving than 2!

Keep in mind up hear in the great white north we have snow covered roads 6 months of the year.
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Old 06-26-2001, 11:08 AM   #5
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gavin, I can easily spin the front inside tire on my RS even on R compounds so I think it's safe to say that our cars could benefit greatly from at least a front LSD.

open diffs are only the best until you get into wheelspin.
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Old 06-26-2001, 11:52 AM   #6
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in deep snow i have often whished that i had a front viscous... hmm... are the phantom parts expensive?

from the look of the install in SCC last month looks like a small change.. (parts wise anyway)
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Old 06-26-2001, 11:58 AM   #7
RageHardIntoTheBendies
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I think they are around $250 each and they work with the existing axels.

Last edited by RageHardIntoTheBendies; 06-26-2001 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 06-26-2001, 12:46 PM   #8
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What I see from the photo: cast iron body, stock spiders & side gears, with a pair of spring-loaded blocks thrusting the side gears hard against the diff body. I don't know --- if I were going through all the trouble to install a front diff, I'd be using in a high quality torque-biasing unit, while keeping a plate-style LSD in the rear.

Paul
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Old 06-26-2001, 12:50 PM   #9
RageHardIntoTheBendies
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Using quaife diffs or somthing else is optimal, just cant afford $2000+ right now, $500 maybe!
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Old 06-26-2001, 12:51 PM   #10
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I really wonder how well the Phantom Grip works. The theory of operation is that there are very strong springs pushing the blocks apart, so that they create friction between the spider gears. But since the gears are so small, and the tranny is full of lubricating oil, those springs must be very strong indeed. I'd like to see how much torque transfer actually occurs with this thing. Otherwise, $250 sounds like a lot of money to pay for two pieces of metal with springs.

Tom at Ludespeed didn't seem to like it.

-WaC
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Old 06-26-2001, 12:59 PM   #11
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It was mentioned here earlier that front LSD is not any good for street driving and will eventually somehow mess things up.

Please, do not ask me how and why cuz I am just quoting someone here.

Eugene
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Old 06-26-2001, 01:04 PM   #12
RageHardIntoTheBendies
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So it seems like it worked for a while and then crapped out.
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Old 06-26-2001, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by RageHardIntoTheBendies
So it seems like it worked for a while and then crapped out.
That's normally what happens with this sort of "stock parts warmed-over" unit. If you're going through all the trouble and expense of doing the job, then do it right. Use quality stuff or save your money. JMHO

Paul
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Old 06-26-2001, 02:43 PM   #14
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A Quaife up front is ideal. The EVO VI has an ATB diff up front, and absolutely every single solitary person who has driven an EVO has raved about the way that they feel and turn in.

They can be had for around $750 from the UK
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Old 06-26-2001, 03:41 PM   #15
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OK, being someone that has blown up a diff on the street from constantly spinning one rear wheel, take it from me LSD is THE way to go on the street without a question. Ask any autocrosser, whether it is FWD, AWD, or RWD you need a LSD to win (if you are in a class that allows them and a competitive region).

I too question the reliability of the Phantom Grip. I can't have an LSD in STS anyway, so it doesn't matter one way or the other.
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Old 06-26-2001, 04:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by ColinL
open diffs are only the best until you get into wheelspin.
That's true, but a street suspension can be tuned to eliminate wheel spin, for the most part, without an LSD. An LSD designed for off-road is designed for lower speeds, and assumes that some tire scuff is allowable. On the street, the scuffing imposed by the lsd results in a loss of traction.

In general, LSD's make a lot of sense for moderate speed-low traction applications. For high-speed/high traction applications, the more independent your 4 wheels are, the better.
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Old 06-26-2001, 04:49 PM   #17
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Ok then for a guy on a budget how much would it cost to convert to FHI viscous unit's front and rear.
Does anyone have PN's for the diffs and axels?
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Old 06-26-2001, 04:56 PM   #18
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By the way, I should clarify that my perspective, and knowledge, on this subject comes from a hard-core off-road background, not autox, so I could be talking out of my ass .

There are different applications for just about everything.
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Old 06-26-2001, 04:56 PM   #19
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The front is going to be expensive to install. I would bet you have to tear the tranny apart, since that is where the front diff is.

Kaaz had mechanicals for like $900 I think.

Jeff
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Old 06-26-2001, 05:07 PM   #20
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A good way to go on a budget I would think is to buy an R160 rear clutch pack LSD out of an 80's Subaru, it will bolt right up and labor you could probably do yourself. I rebuilt my own diff, it wasn't that hard. here is a source for those LSD's (the 510 guys use them all the time) http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/classifieds.html

As for the front, I don't know as if you really need an LSD there unless you are pushing mad power. But say you were, it might be best to wait and save and go with a helical LSD like the Quaife or Kazz.

As for tuning out wheelspin, yes it can be done but at the sacrifice of oversteer. I tuned it out by lowering the sway bar to 22 mm and making the rear Tein's about 6 clicks stiffer, this got rid of most of the spin, but doesn't oversteer near as easy and is no good for rough courses.
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Old 06-26-2001, 05:09 PM   #21
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I forgot to mention, most of those diffs you find will be the wrong ratio and you will need to transplant your ring gear onto the new diff.
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Old 06-26-2001, 05:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spectre23


As for the front, I don't know as if you really need an LSD there unless you are pushing mad power. But say you were, it might be best to wait and save and go with a helical LSD like the Quaife or Kazz.

Does Kazz make a torque-sensing unit? I thought theirs was a plate-style LSD.

At any rate, while some guys have had success using a loosely set LSD for the front, the hot combination is a plate-style LSD in the rear with torque-sensing in the front.
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Old 06-26-2001, 06:32 PM   #23
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Actually you are right, I just looked at the literature I got from them at SEMA and KAAZ is a plate type diff. I have heard they are way higher maintenance than the Quaife as well. So just go Quaife in the front.
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Old 06-26-2001, 06:57 PM   #24
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Just for the record, and I haven't read all the way through the thread so forgive me if it's a repeat, but I have heard that Phantom diff's are pretty bad units.

However, he is sponsoring a friend of mine in his Saturn SL2 off a few pics that he took and sent him with nothing extrordinary done to the car. I guess he's up for any kind of advertising he can get, though he did tell my friend that he shouldn't lower the car too much or put too big of wheels on the car or the diff will have problems. :-/
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Old 06-26-2001, 07:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spectre23
Actually you are right, I just looked at the literature I got from them at SEMA and KAAZ is a plate type diff. I have heard they are way higher maintenance than the Quaife as well. So just go Quaife in the front.
There is actually a nicer torque-sensing unit available. I'd post the photo to this board, if I wuz computer literate --- but I don't know how to. (I suppose I could send a private j-peg to anyone who wants a pic, though.)
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