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Old 11-05-2004, 12:34 PM   #1
jblaine
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Default Water injection with Hydra?

Has anyone done any WI setups with the Hydra (pardon me, the Element Tuning EMS ) as a base?
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:48 PM   #2
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I haven't personally done it, but there are 8 programmable 2D PWM outputs and 3 3D PWM outputs on the unit, any of which could drive a water injection system.

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Old 11-06-2004, 04:36 AM   #3
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I haven't yet seem anyone using this wonderful hydra ECU to map WI etc, the potential is limitless.

Most third party ECU such as Utec, Xede etc has very limited PWM output for driving WI, most of these outputs were used by boost control etc. In time, the Hydra will be "the" ultimate controller" for the masses - it gives all the power to the user rather leaves a significant portion of control only accessible to the vendors or licenced tuner. It is only fair that the control should only belong to the user who paid for it in the first place.
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Old 11-06-2004, 05:05 PM   #4
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I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.
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Old 11-06-2004, 05:14 PM   #5
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I will have a WI setup tuned shortly with the Hydra, but I am using an aquamist FIA2, not the hydra to control the solenoid.
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Old 11-06-2004, 06:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthChicken
I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.
arent they doing an actual antilag setup too?

will it work with auto trans cars?
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:06 PM   #7
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I know it will work with an auto car, I've seen settings in there about shift points and such... its really a very generalized system, you can run anything up to an 8 cyclinder with it.

Antilag is also in the program, that is correct.
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:14 PM   #8
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when i read that i screamed as loud as i can YAHOOOO!!! (im not kidding) im getting it. utec in for sale forum allready, can you program shift points?
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthChicken
I'm pretty sure Phil is working on both the launch control/flat foot shifting parts of the hydra, along with the water injection "stuff". There are multiple outputs as you said, and I'll definitely be using my hydra to control my methanol/water injection setup when the time comes.... which should be very soon.
With so many PWM outputs, I wonder if there are enough to make up a 4-port sequential WI set up - that will be the ultimate WI setup.

Last edited by peter head; 11-06-2004 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:15 PM   #10
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im going to start stocking you phil im sorry. you sold me my utec when i needed a piggyback for my stage 2 and now that im older and wiser, and my car needs to get rid of that ****ing MAF (4 inch inlet) im going to go to you for the HYDRA... im giddy, i love it...

any down sides at all?
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick
I will have a WI setup tuned shortly with the Hydra, but I am using an aquamist FIA2, not the hydra to control the solenoid.
I think this is a good idea, Hydra supply the mapping and the FIA2 look for "block jet" and "cut" hose.

Please do post some results.
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jared nelson
any down sides at all?
Emissions, but with the 2.4 and a T62-1 you probably don't care about emissions. The STI looses cruise control but it still works on the WRX. I guess if you have an STI w/Hydra and really want CC you could buy a WRX cc system or some other generic CC system.
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK02WRX
Emissions, but with the 2.4 and a T62-1 you probably don't care about emissions.
Why would the emissions from a car running a Hydra be significantly different than one running a stock ECU?
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:55 AM   #14
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If you don't have OBD II. You won't pass emissions. I'm sure with cats and tuning you could pass the emissions sniffer test.
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:56 AM   #15
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Oh, emissions testing. Yeah.
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Old 11-07-2004, 09:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK02WRX
If you don't have OBD II. You won't pass emissions. I'm sure with cats and tuning you could pass the emissions sniffer test.
Isn't it just a matter of plugging back in the original ECU?
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:00 AM   #17
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If you can get it to run well enough with your setup, sure. And if you have your stock ECU already reflashed for close to your mods, sure.
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Old 11-07-2004, 10:05 AM   #18
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Perrin's Big MAF is critical for this to happen. I first regretted buying (since I'm gettting a hydra), but it is the only way for me to get inspected.

My car really doesn't run all that bad with the injectors, FMIC, turbo, intake, etc. Just stay off high boost (ie 10psi max)
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Old 11-07-2004, 12:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jared nelson
when i read that i screamed as loud as i can YAHOOOO!!! (im not kidding) im getting it. utec in for sale forum allready, can you program shift points?
I'd download the software if I were you, and check it out. The software is at:

http://www.mrcontrols.com/downloads/nemesis12.zip

(its not the latest version, but it'll get you started).

The hydra for the wrx, as far as I know, is NOT setup to use the auto transmission stuff, but its definitely in the hydra. After you get the hydra software installed, go to menu 'select - outputs', and click on the 'PWM1' button. There should be a whole bunch of items on the lower part of that window, click on the 'ATX' button. On the right hand side at that point is all of the automatic transmission stuff.

So.... I know it will do it, but I'm not sure if its been done yet at least on a wrx.
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Old 11-07-2004, 12:51 PM   #20
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Downsides of using the hydra? How much time do you want to put into tuning it? The actual tuning of the power band is the easiest part, no doubt about it. Which is why Phil is handling all of the setup stuff (cold start, hot start, idling, injector voltage compensation, etc....). Once all of that is done, its all downhill.

The only real downside I've seen is that I can't leave well enough alone and keep with the settings
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Old 11-07-2004, 01:55 PM   #21
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I can state with absolute certainty that WI control is part of Element Hydra's functions. 3D map referencing boost, load, and RPM. I think there are 4 PWM auxillary outputs, and you could also use the unused cylinder outputs 5-8 and a FIA to control the high-speed valve of Aquamist or any other high speed solenoid.

One option that is not supported is to implement Auto-tune with WI, that is let the optimization algorithm reference knock and add water to reduce knock (but no more than is needed).
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Old 11-07-2004, 02:43 PM   #22
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Does anyone know of a manual for the Hydra software? I have seen some of Phil's tuning guides, but I mean is there any generic information on things like what PWM1 stands for and all of the rest of the acronyms and so on?

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Old 11-07-2004, 04:08 PM   #23
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pulse width modulation = PWM

basically it sends a voltage pulse ........ like a heart beat. The frequency and duration of the pulse determines fuel squirts or water squirts--faster more fuel/water.

There is an excellent book on tuning engine management systems by Jeff Hartman. Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...652553-3064646

There is no manual for the Hydra software that I know of. Some help files I think. Between the manual for Motec and the Hartman book you can learn alot not just about the Element Hydra, but all EM systems. The Element uses a newer version of the Hydra software that's only known source is Phil at Element Tuning. He ships on Tues.
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:45 PM   #24
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i really like spending hour apon hour tuning my wrx, so obvoiusly tuning time is not an issue. its like making a masterpiece cake then feeding it to a chick you are triying to impress, its a double good thing. also i have special hookups as far as the emmissions test goes.. so that is one thing that im not concerned about. im sorry to jack this thread so we can stop talking baout my car now... thanks everyone for the help... im still trying to figure out weather or not my car will be able to shift when i plug this damn thing into my car... if anyone has some info on it then please PM me or post, but from what you said, darth, the WRX EMS is not setup to do auto, but the other ones are (for other cars) so im not sure if infact it will be able to work in my car... like for example, if it wont shift, or it wont see the ECU so it will go into limp mode. or if maybe everything will work well, or what? so any info will help, but i wont post on this thread anymore about my car, since its a nasioc crime, and is prosecutable to the fullest extent of the law.
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Old 11-07-2004, 08:47 PM   #25
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Call Phil. No need to guess. http://www.elementtuning.com/
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