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Old 11-06-2004, 11:00 AM   #1
bleat
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Default Strange surge in power at 5K RPM

Or maybe not so strange since I'm not very knowledgable about the car yet.

I've got about 9500 miles on my WRX (I drive about 90 highway miles a day to work, only had it since July). I was passing soemone with the accelerator floored and I noticed that I didn't seem to have as much power around 3K RPM as usual, and when I hit about 5K RPM i can feel this surge of power thats very noticable. Almost feels like my boost is arriving very late.

This sound like what the problem is or could it maybe be something else? I've only noticed this very recently. I don't drive like a maniac very often but I have been being alot harder on it since I noticed this problem to see if it was just intermittent but it isn't.

Is this normal and I'm just inexperienced or is there some problem?

EDIT: I've got a MT and of course it's most noticable in 2nd/3rd for obvious safety/try not to be a retard reasons..

Thanks,
-J
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:17 AM   #2
KnightWRX
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check your intercooler hose up front. Mine was doing the same thing, felt like it was real laggy on power. Couldnt figure out what it was till one day I noticed the hose was actually hand tight and I could move the intercooler back and forth.

Tightened it back up and problem solved. Id try that first cause it seems as though 1st isnt a problem due to no boost anyway, but then you are hitting 2nd (boost kicks in) and the laggy-ness starts. Check all your hoses.

Michael
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:18 AM   #3
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Have you ever adjusted your wastegate arm? I played with mine when I had the stock turbo and it would make the boost come on later but it hit harder.
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dh1
Have you ever adjusted your wastegate arm? I played with mine when I had the stock turbo and it would make the boost come on later but it hit harder.
I'll go check the hoses like Mike said before, but this is exactly what's happening. It's almost feels like the clutch isnt fully engaged and I hit 5K RPM and the car surges forward hard. Of course there's not much gear left at that point.

Maybe something did come loose.. Shrug..

I haven't tinkered with the car at all yet so it's something that happened without my intervention. Looks like it's time to dig in and learn something about the car now that I have some spare time.
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:31 AM   #5
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Do you have a boost gauge?
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Old 11-06-2004, 11:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dh1
Do you have a boost gauge?
No

I wish I did probably be obvious.
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Old 11-06-2004, 01:44 PM   #7
KnightWRX
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Boost gauge wont make a difference if its the intercooler hoses. When my TB hose to the intercooler was loose I was making a full 17psi. Your turbo is still gonna be pushin all that boost...its just not gonna make it into the engine.

That is IF this is your problem, if its internal or its the turbo itself then the gauge would do a bit of good.

As far as not messing with it before, your in the same boat as I was. For some reason or another, that hose loosened on its own. My theory was that at low boost it was just escaping out the hose....then at full RPM and full boost it saw enough boost that ALL of it couldnt escape thus providing a bit of boost that made it and I felt that surge at the top end.

Last edited by KnightWRX; 11-06-2004 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 11-06-2004, 04:31 PM   #8
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fyi, i have an 05 as well, and i have that exact thing happening.. If i got WOT in 1st, i get a huge surge at 5k.. not sure if this is the same problem he is referring to.. But it's most noticeable in 1st, but is obvious in 2nd too
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Old 11-06-2004, 04:39 PM   #9
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My 04 does the same thing sometimes.

Completely stock with 36k miles
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Old 11-06-2004, 05:58 PM   #10
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mine USED to do the same thing for the first 4500 miles...it was weird...

At first it wud be good acceleration but at 5K the RPMs just dropped to redline...then one night it was really lagging in power until 5K in 2nd gear and when it hit 5K the whole car lurched forward as if i had put the clutch in redlined it and dumped it it just "bounced" forward... I drove home and the next morning i floored and noticed something different...IT WAS SMOOTH!!!! YAY! Don't know why or how...but a lot of people has had this same thing in their 04s and 05s and im guessing it's just the ECU learning how to make the engine drive throughout the RPMs smoother, other people that had this problem also was able to get their car to smooth out throughout the RPMs, it's really nice now...b/w 4-5 used to piss me off but it actually gains power now and the Needle goes faster and faster, not quick, slower, then Amazingly fast...

The best way i think for it to learn to smooth out is to run it at least like once a day or something
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Old 11-06-2004, 07:05 PM   #11
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someone flame me if I'm wrong...but isnt this the normal transition from closed loop to open loop fueling...I noticed the same thing when I first got mine and I'm pretty sure that was the answer I got. Since then I've always felt it was normal and am always anxious to hit that 5k barrier. Do some searching, and I bet you'll find something
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Old 11-07-2004, 12:04 AM   #12
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Ok, I looked at the hoses they all look OK. Looks like it happens to alot of ppl.. I actually went out earlier to run some errands and decided on the way home to turn the radio off so I could actually hear the engine (what a concept). I noticed that around 2K upt to 4K i could hear what either sounded like the bearings in the turbo were loud or there was some gas leak. It was hard to place exactly what the sound was. I don't recall hearing it before. It doesn't sound.. usual. Not sure what's supposed to sound "right" at this point. I don't recall hearing that sound previous to this 5K thing happening.

I read you can reset the ECU by removing the neg battery terminal and discharging. Might try that to see what that does. Shrug.

-Jon
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Old 11-08-2004, 07:43 PM   #13
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I'll add that this isn't happening anymore now that I installed a gutted up pipe and a turbo xs turbo back.
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Old 11-08-2004, 07:49 PM   #14
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I dropped it off at the Subie dealership and they said:

Called Tech Case 693695 Fuel Trims Too High
Advise owner to use one grade of fuel - Cleared Codes
Clean IAC Valve

I still hear a slight hissing noise sometimes but my boost is back to normal.
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Old 11-24-2004, 04:23 PM   #15
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Old 11-24-2004, 07:33 PM   #16
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mine does the same, 30K miles with a turbo back. Reseting the ECU seems to help smooth the powerband and increas low end responsiveness and tourque. I also noticed the car pulls smoother and harder when i put the A/C on.

I complained about this when i first got the car, however everyone thought i was crazy. Oh well at least i know i am not alone now.

Joe
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:25 PM   #17
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my 04 does that turbo kicks in at 3500 but a lil extra punch at 5000rpm+ for a sec

i drive about 100 or miles a day 37000 on my 04
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesixnin
someone flame me if I'm wrong...but isnt this the normal transition from closed loop to open loop fueling...I noticed the same thing when I first got mine and I'm pretty sure that was the answer I got. Since then I've always felt it was normal and am always anxious to hit that 5k barrier. Do some searching, and I bet you'll find something
Sounds Right to me too. Get yourself a Cobb AcessPort and Flash to stg. 1 and you wont notice that anymore.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:25 PM   #19
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


5k power surge threads will be the death of me. Can somone Make a sticky?
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Old 01-21-2005, 05:23 PM   #20
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Do an ECU reset. If it goes away, it is probably a learned problem, like the OL/CL delay pulls timing thing. If it does not, it is a boost leak.
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesixnin
someone flame me if I'm wrong...but isnt this the normal transition from closed loop to open loop fueling...I noticed the same thing when I first got mine and I'm pretty sure that was the answer I got. Since then I've always felt it was normal and am always anxious to hit that 5k barrier. Do some searching, and I bet you'll find something
DING! We have a winner
The CL/OL time is the key. Takes about 3 seconds or so, just about the time it takes @ WOT to go from 2-3000RPMs to 5000RPMs in the lower gears. At the transition time you go from AFR ~14:1 down to a 11ish:1 ratio which bumps the power output way up.

The version 1.17 and higher Stage 1 maps on the Cobb Accessport fix this problem. I had an 04 WRX and that solved it for me. Not sure about other EM.
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Old 06-06-2005, 01:39 AM   #22
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I dont want to have to pay 500+ to fix this issue. I want subaru to fix it.


If some one man operation tuners can fix this issue (no offense), you'd thing subaru could budget some time to resolve the issue and offer free reflashes.

- Andy
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyImprezive
I dont want to have to pay 500+ to fix this issue. I want subaru to fix it.


If some one man operation tuners can fix this issue (no offense), you'd thing subaru could budget some time to resolve the issue and offer free reflashes.

- Andy
Agreed. Is there another tune that can be dl'ed into the ECU from the factory to correct this problem? Also, how does the ECU "learn" this bad behavior?

Also, can someone explain to me what open and closed loop fuel is? I'm searching for this at the moment and haven't come up with anything.
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