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Old 11-14-2004, 12:06 AM   #1
elhalisf
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Default UPDATE: 2nd time at the track Cobb Stage 2. 1st time was 14.0 at 96mph

Well as I said, I went back to the track this week after running a miserable 14.0 at 96mph my first time on a Stage 2 04 WRX

This is the original 1st time thread

Cliff notes version from first time: (My problems)
- My 1.901 60ft needed to be fixed
- I was losing power somewhere because of low 96mph trap speed
- I was not hitting full boost in 3rd and 4th (12psi max)
- I was heat soaking like a biatch (probably causing low boost and low trap speed)
- My 18's were slowing me down
- low tire pressure was getting too much grip (bogging)
- still had old Stage 2 version map

Well so I needed some better driving obviously but I needed my power back.
I set out to fix my Heat Soaking problem. As I said before, I wasnt even running a heat shield on my turbo since I didnt cut it up to fit my new downpipe.

Eliminating heat soak:
- Thermo-tec Turbo Wrap (by the way I have tons left, if you need some pm me) around the entire turbo
- Thermo-tec adhesive back aluminized heat deflecter which I used on the parameter of the intercooler
- Cut my heat shield and fitted it back on the new downpipe

Uped my tire pressure to 40/42 (Came to regret doing this)
Loaded in the new Stage 2 map v1.2
Launch at 5.5k
New shift points (7000 1st, 6800 2nd-3rd)

So I set out for the track today and I got 2 runs in, my best run was:

1.95 60 ft
13.7 et
98.4 mph

Yes my 60ft did suck again, but driving and tire pressure are to blame. I should not have put it to 40psi in the front, just too much. I was slipping like a biatch off the line.

I didnt go trying to fix my 60ft launch, it would have been nice but not a priority, because on the street its different. My main concern is where was I losing power. Why the low trap speed of 96mph? Well my shift points werent drastically changed, I dont think I even followed them. My launch was worse. So it must have been the heatsoaking. I was losing 20hp somewhere (2mph) and I guess I just wasnt cooling air enough. So after dissecting everything I was able to get the normal 98mph run back and just a little better.

With a good 1.7-1.8 launch, I am looking at 13.2-13.4, what a stage 2 with a good driver should be. I am a happy camper now, especially after running a 50th anv C5 on the way home.
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Last edited by elhalisf; 11-14-2004 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 11-14-2004, 01:00 AM   #2
Unabomber
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Glad to see another Thermo Tec turbo wrap user here. That stuff is better than sliced bread and is one of the "parts" for us that I always try to convince people to get.
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Old 11-14-2004, 01:10 AM   #3
WRXVII
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I ran 13.7@97mph with old stage 2 map. My 60' time was 1.9 sec. I was kind of afraid of blowing up the tranny, so I slipped the clutch. Since then, I installed Borla header, and downloaded newer map. I haven't had a chance to hit the track again. My car was missing a heatshield so intercooler was soaking a lot of heat.
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Old 11-14-2004, 02:56 AM   #4
mykrrrr
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Why are you shifting so high??? I'm sure you're past the peak power output by 6800/7000.

I sorta doubt heat soak was an issue because it was so cold yesterday (mid 40s during the day)

I bet it was the higher tyre pressures. Last time we ran @ Milan I was running like 36 psi all around.

Next time try launching about 3500-4000, lower the tyre pressures and go on the last yellow. I don't do the last one and I think that's my biggest problem.

Respectable times though.

-mykr.
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Old 11-14-2004, 09:47 AM   #5
elhalisf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkyrrrr
Why are you shifting so high??? I'm sure you're past the peak power output by 6800/7000.

I sorta doubt heat soak was an issue because it was so cold yesterday (mid 40s during the day)

I bet it was the higher tyre pressures. Last time we ran @ Milan I was running like 36 psi all around.

Next time try launching about 3500-4000, lower the tyre pressures and go on the last yellow. I don't do the last one and I think that's my biggest problem.

Respectable times though.

-mykr.
I dont know, I searched for hours one night and it seemed that 7000 in 1st and 6800 in 2nd and 3rd is what people were recommending. Should it be more like 6500 in 2nd and 3rd?

Well it was as cold the first time I went. The second the sun started setting it started to get really cold, and I had a run after that point, but I only ran 0.25 mph faster than during the day

If there is a next time I will definitely lower the tire pressure. But I guess with 4k launch I will probably be slipping the clutch a lot more than a 5.5k launch.

I am just glad I got my trap speed back.
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Old 11-14-2004, 10:08 AM   #6
RexRonald
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Default um?

[quote=elhalisf]Well as I said, I went back to the track this week after running a miserable 14.0 at 96mph my first time on a Stage 2 04 WRX

This is the original 1st time thread

Cliff notes version from first time: (My problems)
- My 1.901 60ft needed to be fixed
- I was losing power somewhere because of low 96mph trap speed
- I was not hitting full boost in 3rd and 4th (12psi max)
- I was heat soaking like a biatch (probably causing low boost and low trap speed)
- My 18's were slowing me down
- low tire pressure was getting too much grip (bogging)
- still had old Stage 2 version map
QUOTE]

you magically left out of your cliff notes about all the 'boost issues' you referenced...


so what ever happened to all those "boost issues" you were so sure about in the last thread???

i love how people track there car, get a ****ty run, then go home and change six things... go back to the track, run better... and chalk it up to one thing like its gosple...

20HP from heat wrap??? now don't get me wrong, heat wrap is a good thing, we all use it, but 2mph and 20hp from it.... not proven in this thread... could have been the six other things you did, or none of them... ever consider that it could have been just how you drove the car???
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:18 PM   #7
law
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RexRonald, he said he downloaded the v2 maps for stage 2 that fix low boost problems with the normal stage 2 AP flash
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Old 11-14-2004, 05:28 PM   #8
SilverRush
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Did you try a run with the stock wheels/tires? If not I am willing to bet they are slowing you down atleast a mph or maybe even more depnding on how heavy they are.

Keith

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhalisf
Well as I said, I went back to the track this week after running a miserable 14.0 at 96mph my first time on a Stage 2 04 WRX

This is the original 1st time thread

Cliff notes version from first time: (My problems)
- My 1.901 60ft needed to be fixed
- I was losing power somewhere because of low 96mph trap speed
- I was not hitting full boost in 3rd and 4th (12psi max)
- I was heat soaking like a biatch (probably causing low boost and low trap speed)
- My 18's were slowing me down
- low tire pressure was getting too much grip (bogging)
- still had old Stage 2 version map

Well so I needed some better driving obviously but I needed my power back.
I set out to fix my Heat Soaking problem. As I said before, I wasnt even running a heat shield on my turbo since I didnt cut it up to fit my new downpipe.

Eliminating heat soak:
- Thermo-tec Turbo Wrap (by the way I have tons left, if you need some pm me) around the entire turbo
- Thermo-tec adhesive back aluminized heat deflecter which I used on the parameter of the intercooler
- Cut my heat shield and fitted it back on the new downpipe

Uped my tire pressure to 40/42 (Came to regret doing this)
Loaded in the new Stage 2 map v1.2
Launch at 5.5k
New shift points (7000 1st, 6800 2nd-3rd)

So I set out for the track today and I got 2 runs in, my best run was:

1.95 60 ft
13.7 et

98.4 mph

Yes my 60ft did suck again, but driving and tire pressure are to blame. I should not have put it to 40psi in the front, just too much. I was slipping like a biatch off the line.

I didnt go trying to fix my 60ft launch, it would have been nice but not a priority, because on the street its different. My main concern is where was I losing power. Why the low trap speed of 96mph? Well my shift points werent drastically changed, I dont think I even followed them. My launch was worse. So it must have been the heatsoaking. I was losing 20hp somewhere (2mph) and I guess I just wasnt cooling air enough. So after dissecting everything I was able to get the normal 98mph run back and just a little better.

With a good 1.7-1.8 launch, I am looking at 13.2-13.4, what a stage 2 with a good driver should be. I am a happy camper now, especially after running a 50th anv C5 on the way home.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:32 AM   #9
elhalisf
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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2005 STI Cobb Stg 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by law
RexRonald, he said he downloaded the v2 maps for stage 2 that fix low boost problems with the normal stage 2 AP flash
This would pretty much answer some of your question RexRonald.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexRonald
you magically left out of your cliff notes about all the 'boost issues' you referenced...


so what ever happened to all those "boost issues" you were so sure about in the last thread???

i love how people track there car, get a ****ty run, then go home and change six things... go back to the track, run better... and chalk it up to one thing like its gosple...

20HP from heat wrap??? now don't get me wrong, heat wrap is a good thing, we all use it, but 2mph and 20hp from it.... not proven in this thread... could have been the six other things you did, or none of them... ever consider that it could have been just how you drove the car???
I dont understand where I omitted my boost issues. I said in my cliff notes
quote "I was not hitting full boost in 3rd and 4th (12psi max)".
Now I changed 3 things, the map, heat under the hood, and my tire pressure. Tire pressure worked against me since I did get a worse 60ft time so that is out of the question. So it boils down to the map and the heatsoaking.

As far as just how I drove the car, it can't be, I drove it worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverRush
Did you try a run with the stock wheels/tires? If not I am willing to bet they are slowing you down atleast a mph or maybe even more depnding on how heavy they are.

Keith
No, I dont even own a set of stock wheels. But I was told they weigh almost 40lbs and my 18's do weigh 39lbs. So I dont know how that would affect me. Maybe there is a difference with 16's and 18's even if they are the same weight. I actually remember an article, its in front of me right now actually. An eclipse was run with 12 different sets of rims and tires.

16 inch 15.5 sec @ 89.4 mph 44.5lbs
17 inch 15.5 sec @ 89.0 mph 47lbs
18 inch 15.6 sec @ 87.9 mph 46lbs

The 18" rim was 8 inch wide while the others were 7" inch. So even though 18 inch rims was lighter than the 17" rims, they experienced 12% more rotational intertia and that accounted for the loss of mph and et. The difference between 16in and the 18" in the article experiment was like running an extra 50lbs. So as far as running an MPH slower with my 18's you are probably absolutely right Keith.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:39 AM   #10
InfamousDX
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykrrrr
Why are you shifting so high??? I'm sure you're past the peak power output by 6800/7000.
It's not so much passing hte peak power output as it is if you shift any lower, the stock wrx gearing is bad enough that you drop pretty low in the RPM range. I'd rather hold it out to 6800 so I don't drop back into the lower portion of my power curve.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:06 PM   #11
4830DeuceWRX
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Nice numbers sorry we didnt stay around to watch...13.7 isnt bad for stage 2 but there is room for improvement.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:13 PM   #12
elhalisf
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4830DeuceWRX
Nice numbers sorry we didnt stay around to watch...13.7 isnt bad for stage 2 but there is room for improvement.
Yeah there is room for improvement but I am going to stop beating on it at the track. Well at least maybe until I get the Cobb Stage 3 (whenever that comes out). Hopefully by then I can land 12's.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:53 PM   #13
snvin
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What exhaust are you running?
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Old 11-15-2004, 05:33 PM   #14
elhalisf
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^^^ i am running Turboxs downpipe with midpipe and a Spugen catback. No cats. Now my brother actually just mentioned this and I do not know how much this would have affected me, but I ran with the SILENCER in the exhaust. Any opnions or facts on what this might have done?
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Old 11-15-2004, 08:49 PM   #15
SilverRush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhalisf
No, I dont even own a set of stock wheels. But I was told they weigh almost 40lbs and my 18's do weigh 39lbs. So I dont know how that would affect me. Maybe there is a difference with 16's and 18's even if they are the same weight. I actually remember an article, its in front of me right now actually. An eclipse was run with 12 different sets of rims and tires.

16 inch 15.5 sec @ 89.4 mph 44.5lbs
17 inch 15.5 sec @ 89.0 mph 47lbs
18 inch 15.6 sec @ 87.9 mph 46lbs

The 18" rim was 8 inch wide while the others were 7" inch. So even though 18 inch rims was lighter than the 17" rims, they experienced 12% more rotational intertia and that accounted for the loss of mph and et. The difference between 16in and the 18" in the article experiment was like running an extra 50lbs. So as far as running an MPH slower with my 18's you are probably absolutely right Keith.

I really hope you mean wheel and tire I don't think the stock wheels/tires weigh that much but I could be wrong, I will know for sure shortly as I am selling my second set. So with that article you have, if your WRX acted exactly the same which ofcourse it wouldn't and if the two sets are the same weight then you would be almost breaking into triple digits which is much closer to their advertised customer times.

But I agree with you don't beat on the car anymore just to see a little higher trap speeds. If you think there is a problem or are trying to see how well a mod works take some before and after 2,3 and 4 gear runs without shifting. You can either go from x to y mph or x to y rpm. A good thing I always try to do is coast down to the starting point so the turbo is completely unspooled and is a very easy thing to duplicate. If you have some kind of data logger you can easily capture this data but a stop watch always works.

Keith
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:00 PM   #16
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Oh yah. I should have this data in the next couple of weeks and can post it if you want. Pre will be with just the silencer removed and post will be Cobb Stage 2 (PDE downpipe with no cats, cobb catback, silencer removed).

Keith
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:10 PM   #17
elhalisf
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Yeah definitely do that. Numbers are always easier to work with!
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