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Old 11-11-2004, 08:06 PM   #1
dithergizzard
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Post The HID FAQ Thread - Read before posting your questions

Well. I decided that Mulder, Hank3, myself, and many others find themselves responding to the same HID questions a lot. I do not mean any disrespect to those who ask the questions; it is extremely important to do your homework before you buy something, particularly HID-related products. But, in the interest of efficiency, I think setting up this thread will save both those who ask and those who answer HID questions a good deal of time. So, here we go.

NOTE: use of the word "colour" instead of "color" throughout this post is explained under "location" in my profile.

HID FAQ and answers:

1. Is 8000K brighter than 6000K?

No. The Kelvin scale is a measure of colour temperature, not intensity or amount of light. HID setups that produce maximum light output are around 4100-4300K colour temperature, and the higher you go, the less light output. A 12000K HID kit will be dimmer than your stock halogen lights. 4100-4300K kits will have the colour of all the HID lights you see on cars that come equipped with them (like most BMWs, Mercedes-Benz', and other luxury vehicles). The colour is very white, while light output becomes progressively bluer as colour temperature rises; 6000K is white/blue, 8000K is very blue, and above that you go towards purple.

Here are some links for this topic:
What is colour temperature: http://www.hid-online.com/hidonline/...colourtemp.htm
More on that: http://www.hidkits.com/tab_faqs_color.htm
General HID info (scroll to bottom for stuff on brightness): http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-general.htm

2. What HID kit should I buy? What is a good price?

Aftermarket HID is sold by a large number of companies, although less so recently because of NHTSA regulations. However, to ensure the highest quality, make sure you buy HID that is made by an OEM HID manufacturer. OEM HID kits are the same products fitted to many vehicles (usually luxury) by manufacturers before they are sold as new vehicles. See this link: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-oem-hid.htm. Notice that almost all ballasts and bulbs used by car manufacturers are Bosch, Osram, Philips, or Hella. Bosch and Osram are not as readily available for retail, but Philips and Hella are. Kits that are not made by these companies are most likely not of the highest quality, although some aftermarket manufacturers such as Brightstar and McCullogh have been recognized as high quality products as well. Philips/Hella kits are generally considered the best.

As far as price is concerned, the cheapest I've seen for a quality kit like Philips/Hella is about $275 on ebay. Most online retailers sell them for $450+. Anything below $400 is a pretty good deal IMO. Here is a site that has a good rep and sells all-Philips kits: www.xenonfactory.com. Google "philips HID" for more, or search this forum.

3. Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly?

Yes. But it is strongly recommended that you do not. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. Reflector assemblies on cars that come equipped with halogen bulbs are made to direct the light produced by halogen bulbs correctly. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce three times the light yields a terrible beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Even if you can tolerate such a beam pattern, your lights would be a safety hazard on the road. Many people try to solve this problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup.

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm

4. So how do you properly install an aftermarket HID kit?

As with the HID kits themselves, OEM products are the best. For MY04-05 Imprezas, the OEM STI HID reflector assembly is probably the best way to go to ensure you have a good beam pattern and acceptable levels of glare. This option is, however, quite expensive: OEM STI HID assemblies are generally around $1000.

The next best solution is to use complete non-OEM assemblies (such as Morettes for MY02-03 Impreza). As I learned later in this thread (this is an edit), Morettes generally come with non-HID projectors, meaning beam pattern and glare will not be optimal, but will still be good. Morettes are cheaper than the first option listed, around $650 per set, but only fit MY02-03. (Note: other complete assemblies such as UK300s are also available)

An equally good solution is to retrofit HID projectors into your stock assemblies. This option keeps glare at OEM levels, just like OEM STI HID assemblies. Where retrofitting can be less optimal is in beam pattern. It is possible to achieve a perfect beam pattern with a projector retrofit, but not always easy. Nevertheless, beam patterns for professional retrofits usually approach the quality of OEM beam patterns. A quality retrofit usually costs between $700 and $1000, including all parts. Virtually any stock reflector can be retrofitted with projectors.

MY04-05 WRX/STI retrofitted:
- by hidtech.com: http://hidtech.com/projects/01500.jpg, http://hidtech.com/projects/01504.jpg
- by a nasioc member (includes head-on and beam pattern pics): http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hella+bi-xenon

- threads with retrofit pictures (mostly MY04-05), including non-projector units and projectors:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&page=4&pp=25
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=projector+STi

Some more links:

About projectors: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/projector-unit.htm
Forum devoted mostly to retrofitting-related stuff: http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/
Reputable retrofit companies: http://www.hidtech.com/, http://www.illusion-lighting.com/

5. How can I upgrade my lighting without buying HID?

First of all, not with coated bulbs. Many HID-look bulbs use blue coatings that actually reduce output. Some halogen bulbs are effective in producing more light than stock systems. Examples are Osram Silverstars (not Sylvania Silverstars, which are coated) Philips hi-visibility, and Hella +50.

Upgrading: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-upgrades.htm
Articles about coated bulbs: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...blue/blue.html
About effective HID alternatives: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-filament-bulbs.htm

You can also upgrade your lighting significantly without changing bulbs by installing relays. See here: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html

-------------------------------------
Those are the most common questions asked. Feel free to post any others in this thread or elsewhere in this forum. I also encourage you all to post information on other areas that you feel should be covered in this thread and that I have not mentioned, and to add to what I have compiled here. Please correct me if I have made any false statements, as I do not wish to mislead HID shoppers.

In conclusion, the best advice that can be given regarding purchasing HID is simply to do your research. Take the time to search through the huge number of threads on this forum concerning this topic, as well as those on http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/ (if you plan on retrofitting). Here are a couple of comprehensive lighting FAQ sites with lots to dig through that I linked to throughout this post:
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

dithergizzard


Update 5-3-10- Also refer to this thread-
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1670587
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Last edited by Mulder; 05-04-2010 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Updated links
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:58 PM   #2
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Excellent post, a couple of additional points-
To elaborate on the NHTSA regulations, as of last year they made it clear that ALL non-OEM HID retrofits are illegal for sale in the US. They don't care about "off-road use only" disclaimers. Vendors who sell them are subject to heavy fines. This enforcement was brought about largely as a result of complaints about reflector retrofits and the glare they produce. As a result of this government action, just about all of the larger and more reputable vendors who had been selling these kits have exited the aftermarket HID business. This now leaves mainly smaller, and sometimes shady vendors as the remaining sources for HID kits.

Installing lights with a RHD beam pattern in a vehicle that is driven in an LHD country like the US is a bad idea due to the light being directed into oncoming traffic. Installing HIDs in RHD lights is an even worse idea. The higher light output of the HIDs vs. halogens will make the glare problem that much worse.

H7-based lights such as Morettes, Prodrives, and UK300s can accept standard OEM-type D2S HID bulbs. With the proper adapters and minor modifications, the bulb will fit in the housing with correct alignment. While this will still not produce OEM-HID quality light due to the fact that these projectors are designed for halogens and not HIDs, this type of conversion using 100% OEM grade components (i.e. Philips D2S bulbs, and Philips or Hella ballasts) will give the best possible results and will be far superior to non-OEM aftermarket kits. Unfortunately this is only possible with H7 housings, others do not have a configuration to accomodate the D2S bulb base.

With brighter and more sharply focused lights aiming becomes much more important than with stock unfocused reflectors. E-code projectors must be aimed according to specific procedures for maximum lighting performance and minimum glare to other drivers. Add HIDs and the aim is even more critical.

I'll add more as I think of it.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:01 AM   #3
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Default Thanks.

Dither & Mulder,


Great posts.

IMHO the Danielstern site is THE place to go for headlight aiming. Once you figure out which knobs adjust the lights.

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Old 11-12-2004, 04:01 AM   #4
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Here's a good site that gives some good info on HIDs and has example pics and stuff:

http://www.proxenon.com/resource_details.php?id=24

RJ
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:07 AM   #5
Hank3
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Thank you for spearheading this effort dither. It will benefit a lot of members now and to come. Like Mulder, I'll add any pertinent info if I think of it...

*Edit* - I found some pics where a member retrofitted his 03' bugeye lights to projectors:

http://www.pbase.com/dperry33/headlights2

Last edited by Hank3; 11-12-2004 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:00 AM   #6
dithergizzard
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Thank you all for the positive feedback and the sticky.

One thing that needs clarification: Morettes have halogen projectors? I thought they had HID projectors. If not, they should probably be listed as a secondary option for properly installing HID on MY02-03, as halogen projectors will give a less-than-optimal beam pattern.

About the proxenon site. That is some good info there, but people should be careful looking at Bohmen HID products, as Bohmen is not an OEM manufacturer. Proxenon also does not offer kits that maximize light output (their lowest colour temp. rating is 5000K). Just some stuff to keep in mind.

Another link: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

Last edited by dithergizzard; 11-12-2004 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:30 AM   #7
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Yes Morettes as sold here have halogen projector low-beams. HID Morettes do exist, but I am not aware of any vendors who sell them here, whether they are made in LHD, and what they cost (presumably very expensive). Any Morettes with HIDs you come across will, with 99% probability, be retrofits.
Agree about the proxenon link. Some useful stuff, but it's a vendor site so it will be biased to the stuff they sell.
Also the statement that HIDs reduce the drain on your vehicle's electrical system is not entirely true. While the nominal operating draw of an HID bulb/ballast setup is lower than a typical OEM halogen once the HID is running (35W vs. 55W), the initial startup current requirement of the HID is very high. It varies among different manufacturers, but an individual ballast can draw 10-15 amps during its startup cycle before settling down to the normal operating current of 2-3 amps. This is why an HID setup should never be wired to operate through the factory ground switching system for the headlights. The switched grounds are not designed to handle this amount of current. Note that all the ground current for the headlights passes through the headlight switch, as well as a rather long run of narrow-gauge wiring. Even with the current draw of the stock halogen bulbs there is a voltage drop through this ground system of around 1.5-2 volts. When it tries to supply the startup demand of HIDs, up to 30A or so for both ballasts combined, the drop will be much higher. This can result in the HIDs not starting properly or at all, they may just flicker and never turn on fully. It's bad for the bulbs, ballasts and switch contacts and can damage them all over time.
So, the above is why we are constantly advising anyone installing HIDs to directly ground the ballasts and bypass the switched grounds entirely. So-called "plug and play" HID kits that plug into the factory headlight connectors, and use the switched grounds, are a good idea only for the vendors selling the kits, to make you more likely to buy them. The switched grounds should never be used to run the HIDs.
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:07 PM   #8
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Great posts you guys, nice job.

but what about us old-school owners? what options do we have when converting to HID?
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooocool49723
Great posts you guys, nice job.

but what about us old-school owners? what options do we have when converting to HID?
I would be inclined to say to get a nice set of projectors, retrofit them into your stock housings, and then put in a 4100/4300K HID kit

IIRC, they made Morrettes for the RS but they were halogen setups (high and low beams). Perhaps you could stick the projector capsules in the low beams housings...
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:27 PM   #10
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GC's? I think there are JDM projectors but they are super-rare and super-expensive. Any other lighting options I know of are reflectors, such as Morettes (clear or complex lens) and various knockoffs. HID retrofits in your stock lights are possible and many have done it, but it's not recommended due to the glare issue, plus since you have dual-filament bulbs you would lose your high beams unless you use a bi-xenon kit.
The only "right" way to do this would be a custom retrofit of OEM HID projectors into one of the aftermarket dual-beam light setups. Maybe you can contact hidtech and see if they have any options for you.
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Old 11-13-2004, 07:07 AM   #11
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For the best HID output out of your Suby. Here's someone who did an Audi projector retro fit into some JDM sti headlights. Looks pretty sweet. (Click here)

RJ
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Old 11-13-2004, 11:20 PM   #12
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Nice post. This saves me from another FAQ.
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Old 11-14-2004, 12:28 AM   #13
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Yeah, we can't let you do all the work.
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Old 11-14-2004, 03:49 AM   #14
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Default 05 wrx hid install

I recently installed h1 hids in my 05 wrx I am having problems with the daytime running lamps working correctly. As soon as I release my parking brake they flicker and then shut off.
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsr1
I recently installed h1 hids in my 05 wrx I am having problems with the daytime running lamps working correctly. As soon as I release my parking brake they flicker and then shut off.
This tells me that your HIDs are a "plug and play" installation using the factory switched grounds. See my post above for why this is bad. When connected this way with DRLs still enabled, the DRL system will try to run the HIDs through the DRL dropping resistor resulting in the ballasts receiving insufficient voltage to turn on so they flicker and cut out as you are seeing. This will shorten the life of the ballasts and bulbs and may burn out the DRL resistor as well.
You need to-
1. Disable the DRLs by disconnecting the main control module by the glovebox, search this forum for details on how to do this.
2. Correct the wiring of your ballasts so they are directly grounded, again see my post above about why you need to do this.
3. Read the posts in this forum by people who have installed HID kits in their 04-05 WRX's only to pull them out because of the horrible beam pattern and glare, and ended up purchasing a set of the STi HID light assemblies.
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:18 PM   #16
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Should I go with Valeo projectors OR Audi A6 Hella projectors???

www.hidplanet.com is a GOOD source for HID Qs.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:03 PM   #17
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If possible you should use projectors that are designed for use with HIDs, rather than retrofitting them into halogen-type projectors. Unless the Valeos you are looking at are made for HID, you'll be better off with the Audi projectors which are OEM HIDs.
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Old 11-21-2004, 10:01 PM   #18
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For GCs, the Morettes don't come with projectors, probably due to space concern - a projector setup requires length, and in the GCs, you might hit the battery on the Morettes conversion + low beam projectors. I on the other hand would be interested to know if there is any way to convert my Morettes to projectors with the limited length clearance on the driver side. Passenger side could be a concern with the ABS pumps there - also you would most likely need to cut up the plastic molding on the Morettes to accomodate a projector, not to mention a need for a protector in front of the lens because Morettes don't have anything protecting the lens.
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Old 11-29-2004, 08:53 PM   #19
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what about replacement bulb sizes for the JDM bugeye hid projectors and the current, sti HID bulb size? might be good to have that info on the sticky
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:25 PM   #20
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JDM HIDs (the OEM ones) use standard D2S bulbs.
The US STi HIDs use D2R bulbs (this info is in the owners manual).
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder
JDM HIDs (the OEM ones) use standard D2S bulbs.
The US STi HIDs use D2R bulbs (this info is in the owners manual).
Awesome, great sticky..
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Old 01-06-2005, 11:09 PM   #22
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Awesome, great sticky..
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Old 01-08-2005, 02:42 PM   #23
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what makes HID different then Halogen other then brightness? ive heard that they are a high voltage arc lamp like those used for lighting parking lots.
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Old 01-08-2005, 03:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filanwizard
what makes HID different then Halogen other then brightness? ive heard that they are a high voltage arc lamp like those used for lighting parking lots.
Halogen lights rely on the filament glowing due to the current flowing through it. A large percentage of the electrical energy is wasted on heat instead of illumination.

Using a much higher voltage difference, HID causes an arc that generates light afaik. As you said, it is similar to lighting used for parking lots and fluorescent lights in a way.
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Old 01-08-2005, 03:24 PM   #25
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Im rocking H4 singles at a 6000k light...I blind people coming at me.. do I care?? nope. I can see. These lights are the best money I ever spent.
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