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Old 01-27-2009, 01:54 PM   #301
steverx05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Actually, the HID replacement kits work quite well in the 06/07 projectors. I've been running them for 3 years - with some wiring changes such as a relay direct off it's own fused battery power, and dedicated ground wires - and the light output is very even and much brighter, with a sharp nice cutoff. And by putting 9011 HIR bulbs into the high beams I have amazing light when I can use the high beams.
Actually, no they don't. Stop spreading misinformation, especially in the HID FAQ of all places. Please go back and read posts 284 and 286 of this thread to better understand why your projectors are not designed for HID optics. Your light output might seem good to you, but it's very unsafe...especially for other drivers.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
Actually, no they don't. Stop spreading misinformation, especially in the HID FAQ of all places. Please go back and read posts 284 and 286 of this thread to better understand why your projectors are not designed for HID optics. Your light output might seem good to you, but it's very unsafe...especially for other drivers.
Actually, as I've been running them for 2+ years, I'm quite aware of what I have - and as was shown in post 134 there is no glare for oncoming drivers, just a lot more light where I need it for me. What is especially nice about the pattern is that there is more light being focused just where I need it, and the cutoff is still as good as the original bulbs. Now on the bugeye where I did a HID retrofit, the output was not very good, but on the 06 the result is just fine, at least for the bulbs I used.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:29 PM   #303
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Quote:
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Actually, as I've been running them for 2+ years, I'm quite aware of what I have - and as was shown in post 134 there is no glare for oncoming drivers, just a lot more light where I need it for me. What is especially nice about the pattern is that there is more light being focused just where I need it, and the cutoff is still as good as the original bulbs. Now on the bugeye where I did a HID retrofit, the output was not very good, but on the 06 the result is just fine, at least for the bulbs I used.
The pictures you provided in those posts, while better than some pics I have seen with ricer kits, still look terrible. Your lights might not be giving off too much glare above the cutoff, but there is terrible hotspotting going on because your halogen projectors cannot focus the HID optics properly. I don't see how having the light focused improperly is putting the light "just where you need it". Having a WIDE and even spread of light is what you want, something not achievable with ricer kits in halogen headlights. With your setup, you are focusing too much light straight in front of your car, as shown by your hotspots. And if you're telling me that a retrofit that you built yielded worse results than a ricer kit, you failed to build it correctly.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:13 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
and as was shown in post 134 there is no glare for oncoming drivers, just a lot more light where I need it for me.

Those look like ass. Plus, if the road is wet you can bet those two bits of wash down low are going to reflect like crazy.

I was actually thinking about buying a kit just to see - they are available some places for less than 50 bucks. Seeing those pics, i won't bother.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:17 AM   #305
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Default 05 sti HID into a 05 wrx

how difficult is it to swap stock wrx headlights for sti HID?
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:27 PM   #306
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Default Still Confused

I am still lost on the HID with Halogens. If my subie has Halogen projectors, buying any HID would be unnecessary? I just want a brighter light with a blue colour without having the light everywhere and destroying anything within my housing.

Last edited by JROK; 03-31-2009 at 07:38 PM. Reason: wasnt sure if they were projectors or reflectors
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:11 PM   #307
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it's that the HID capsule(bulb) won't be focused properly in your 06 projectors. I have a set right next to me and they are terrible. the guy above doesn't know what he's talking about, looking at, or doing to other drivers around him. brighter light and bluer light isn't better but if that's what you want buy some silvania silverstars.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #308
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I am still lost on the HID with Halogens. If my subie has Halogen projectors, buying any HID would be unnecessary? I just want a brighter light with a blue colour without having the light everywhere and destroying anything within my housing.
Any HID kit that you bought would leave you with LESS usable light, and MORE glare for oncoming drivers.

Blue is bad.

Ok, now to give you some upgrade advice...

You want to buy Osram Silverstar H7s for the low beams, 9011 HIR bulbs for the high-beams and since the fogs don't really do anything, any old H3 will do. Those just seem to be for looks. I happen to run some CPI Gold Selective yellows.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=954736 will give you the best info so far...
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Old 04-06-2009, 06:01 PM   #309
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Hey all, I have a quick question:



There are 2 silver wires that I don't know what they are. I am also assuming the black wire is also the negative, not the ground? Sorry for the newb question, I am currently at work and I am trying to do the install as soon as I get off work.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:42 PM   #310
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Ok so I just got the HID's installed, but my high beams and low beams are switched. Any suggestions about where to even start?
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:59 AM   #311
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^ switching one of the wires to the other post did fix this right?


anyway, here's my own comparison now that i have a power source hooked up and all the equipment.


tsx projector has a clear lens, 06 wrx has fresnel. the important thing to see is that the kit bulb has a very unfocused and lopsided, blotchy hotspot. this basically makes it impossible to see anything that isn't in that hotspot. the tsx is just as intense with a much less intense lightsource because it's got better focused optics, clearer chrome reflective plating, and a clearer, more efficient lens.
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:55 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Handsdown View Post
^ switching one of the wires to the other post did fix this right?


anyway, here's my own comparison now that i have a power source hooked up and all the equipment.

tsx projector has a clear lens, 06 wrx has fresnel. the important thing to see is that the kit bulb has a very unfocused and lopsided, blotchy hotspot. this basically makes it impossible to see anything that isn't in that hotspot. the tsx is just as intense with a much less intense lightsource because it's got better focused optics, clearer chrome reflective plating, and a clearer, more efficient lens.
Is there a write up/how-to on installing the TSX projectors? Did you do the install yourself? The beam from the TSX lights looks good compared to the WRX lenses.
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Old 04-09-2009, 12:44 PM   #313
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i haven't installed them yet but i will be using this writeup as a tutorial:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=tsx+retrofit

those pictures are with the projectors in open air.

it's about as hard as it looks, harder if you try to come up with a non-destructive mounting solution. i will attempt that but may end up just destroying what's there for simplicity's sake.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:34 PM   #314
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here's an even h7 halogen beam:


and here's an HID bulb in the same lamp:

at the same camera settings with way more blown out highlights...

but, and this is what you never see on pictures taken by people who don't know what they're talking about-

here's what you see once your eyes adjust(and they do, eyes always adjust to the brightest part of a scene)


as you can see the beam is far less even and is far worse for seeing things coming at you when driving.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:00 AM   #315
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here's what you see once your eyes adjust(and they do, eyes always adjust to the brightest part of a scene)

as you can see the beam is far less even and is far worse for seeing things coming at you when driving.
Nice logic - too bad it's based on unproven and probably false statements.

That one's eyes adjust to lighting is true - within certain limits. When the overall scene is dark, the pupils open as wide as possible to get as much light into the eye and onto the retina. Especially for older people (one needs as much as 10 TIMES more light at 60 and the pupil can't open as wide (see http://www.agingeye.net/visionbasics/theagingeye.php) there is little chance that their eyes will be "adjusting" to brightness levels at night while driving. So the theory that the eye will be effectively cutting down the brighter light of HID lighting is an unproven - and at least from my experience - false idea.

Taken to it's logical extreme, I suppose some dim wide dispersion lights would be the best - after all one's eyes could theoretically "adjust"...
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:39 AM   #316
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Nice logic - too bad it's based on unproven and probably false statements.

That one's eyes adjust to lighting is true - within certain limits. When the overall scene is dark, the pupils open as wide as possible to get as much light into the eye and onto the retina. Especially for older people (one needs as much as 10 TIMES more light at 60 and the pupil can't open as wide (see http://www.agingeye.net/visionbasics/theagingeye.php) there is little chance that their eyes will be "adjusting" to brightness levels at night while driving. So the theory that the eye will be effectively cutting down the brighter light of HID lighting is an unproven - and at least from my experience - false idea.

Taken to it's logical extreme, I suppose some dim wide dispersion lights would be the best - after all one's eyes could theoretically "adjust"...
I don't understand what logic you are trying to battle here. Handsdown was showing how the beam pattern differs once you throw an HID bulb into a halogen projector. He clearly shows how the halogen projector cannot handle the optics of an HID bulbs and gives off an uneven and poor beam pattern...a point that has already been proven scientifically and clearly shown and backed up by the pictures posted.

Even if you are saying that old people are not affected by light as much as young people, what point are you making? That it's OK to drive around Florida with an HID drop in kit because old people can't see anything? What about all the younger people driving around who do get affected by intense glaring light from an improperly focused HID ricer kit?
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:16 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by steverx05 View Post
I don't understand what logic you are trying to battle here. Handsdown was showing how the beam pattern differs once you throw an HID bulb into a halogen projector. He clearly shows how the halogen projector cannot handle the optics of an HID bulbs and gives off an uneven and poor beam pattern...a point that has already been proven scientifically and clearly shown and backed up by the pictures posted.

Even if you are saying that old people are not affected by light as much as young people, what point are you making? That it's OK to drive around Florida with an HID drop in kit because old people can't see anything? What about all the younger people driving around who do get affected by intense glaring light from an improperly focused HID ricer kit?
No - as many of the posts and pictures show - the problem with aftermarket HID kits in projector housings is that the light is uneven - but the cutoff is just as sharp. Therefore the lights do NOT glare into oncoming traffic - which is not being claimed as a problem in the posting I quoted - and the problem is supposed to be the uneven light output. But for many older folks the increased light is a big benefit as the driver of the HID equiped car.

And incidentally, the dead spot is usually just about where the fog lights can fill in, if desired. And the brighter area from HID retrofits is further out where the extra light is most needed.

Last week we rented a car on vacation with normal lights, and I was stunned by how little illumination they provided!
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:01 PM   #318
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No - as many of the posts and pictures show - the problem with aftermarket HID kits in projector housings is that the light is uneven - but the cutoff is just as sharp. Therefore the lights do NOT glare into oncoming traffic - which is not being claimed as a problem in the posting I quoted - and the problem is supposed to be the uneven light output. But for many older folks the increased light is a big benefit as the driver of the HID equiped car.

And incidentally, the dead spot is usually just about where the fog lights can fill in, if desired. And the brighter area from HID retrofits is further out where the extra light is most needed.

Last week we rented a car on vacation with normal lights, and I was stunned by how little illumination they provided!
Since this is the HID FAQ, I'm going to just tell you to please do some more research before you make comments such as HID kits not producing any glare and having just as sharp of a cutoff as an OEM setup. Those statements are proven to be untrue and I'm sure Handsdown will have some other points for you as well.

A good site to get started would be danielsternlighting.com

Last edited by steverx05; 04-23-2009 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:28 PM   #319
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look at the 'unadjusted' picture for proof of how much more glare there is above cutoff. oncoming drivers, and drivers that have a normal amount of light in front of them, their eyes won't have time to adjust to the HID's glare. it greatly increases, even in projectors.

and fog beams don't have the penetration needed to "fill in" the gaps, and even if they did it still doesn't provide the even beam that you need to see properly.

an even beam with a constant gradient is always better to see by, even if it's much dimmer than the uneven beam.

it should also be noted that these projectors have their cutoff shields painted black, which decreases glare and cuts out the 'squirrel finder' feature that reflects light above cutoff. in stock lights the glare is even worse.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:11 PM   #320
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So, if I have an 08 WRX w the stock halogen projectors, there is no use in me trying to upgrade to a 4100K or 6000K HID kit in the stock projector?
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:19 PM   #321
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So, if I have an 08 WRX w the stock halogen projectors, there is no use in me trying to upgrade to a 4100K or 6000K HID kit in the stock projector?
Did you even read any of this thread?

There are lots of problems. Stick with halogens unless you want to change out the projector for an HID one. Search for H9 swap, and buy those.

Last edited by FourOnTheFloor65; 04-30-2009 at 12:25 AM. Reason: For some reason I though he had an 06-07. So it uses H11 bulb not H7, suggestion corrected.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:16 PM   #322
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yea, I've read a lot of it. I understand I need the HID projector, but there is a lot I dont understand still, I just didnt know what is so wrong about using the halogen projector (extra dangerous light?)?
Anyway, for the 08 WRX what is the best projector to retro-fit and where can they be found? What'd be a decent price(if someone's already asked all of this about an 08, I only read the 1st few pgs. sorry)?
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:27 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by JPA15 View Post
yea, I've read a lot of it. I understand I need the HID projector, but there is a lot I dont understand still, I just didnt know what is so wrong about using the halogen projector (extra dangerous light?)?
Anyway, for the 08 WRX what is the best projector to retro-fit and where can they be found? What'd be a decent price(if someone's already asked all of this about an 08, I only read the 1st few pgs. sorry)?
Keep doing some research and you'll quickly see why putting an HID kit into halogen projectors just doesn't work. If fact, if you scroll up and go back a few pages in this thread, you can see a bunch of pictures posted by Handsdown that show the poor results you would get. A halogen projector is only designed to correctly focus the light of a halogen bulb, and that's it. Once you throw an HID bulb in there, it completely throws off the optics of the projector and you get a very unsafe and unfocused beam of light which is really bad for you and other drivers on the road.

If you are looking to retrofit some HID projectors, TSX and S2000 are some nice single beam projectors. TSX are definitely a great bang for your buck projector while the s2k's are much more expensive, but TOTALLY worth the extra money IMO. There's other options out there too and I'm sure someone else will chime in. You can find HID projectors on Ebay and the HIDplanet.com forums in the classified section. Hopefully that helps!
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:45 PM   #324
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Ok, Thanks man, I'm a newbie just tryin to learn. O, but if my wrx didnt come w foglights stock, what would be a good reliable foglight that I could put in that would fit in the stock location w hardly any problems (hella, prodrive)?
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:32 AM   #325
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I posted this in another thread so it may not make a whole lot of sense but I think it has some useful information that may help some people. Here is the thread that it came from, reading the thread may put it into perspective a little better.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1749048

Quote:
I consider myself a very knowledgeable person when it comes to lighting, but more than that I consider myself a rational and scientific person. I have done several HID projector retrofits myself. I have more HID parts laying around my house than I can count, including an HID kit, which I will never drive around with. I have lots of experience with all kinds of lighting. I have seen lots of HID kits in cars including Subarus, ridden in cars with them installed, etc.

It doesn't matter who made the kit. Yes some cheap kits have lots more problems with bulb alignment but that only adds to the problem. There are two glare related problems that are impossible to fix by even the greatest HID kit manufacturer. These issues are just glare related. There are lots of other problems, like too much foreground light, extremely center heavy light which caused pupil constriction, lack of quality control, reliability, damage to stock wiring. If you want to learn more about those issues read the links I posted earlier.

Lets say for example that Hella or some other great company built a kit that had perfect bulb alignment. There would still be way more glare than the light was designed to have. The first issue is that light is emitted from a halogen bulb in a cylindrical shape. The brightest point in that light source is in the center of the filament. With HID capsules light is produced by an electric arc between two electrodes. The arc doesn't just go in a straight line from one electrode to the other. It, well, arcs. The light is formed in a crescent shape, and the brightest points are at the ends of the arc where they contact the electrode. Halogen lights are not designed for this different shape of light source. Optics work on scales much smaller than a mm. This difference in shape makes a huge difference. So unless Hella, who made out "perfect kit", or what ever HID kit manufacturer you worship, can change the laws of physics there will be more glare when using a kit in Halogen optics.

The other issue is that all headlamps are designed with a particular amount of glare built into them. A certain amount is actually mandated to light up road signs. So lets use our "perfect HID kit" again but this time it was made by the god of physics instead of Hella. So now it emits light in a cylindrical shape just like a filament and is placed in the exact same spot as the stock filament would have been. It will still glare more than the stock halogen bulb or a proper HID optic. Why? HID bulbs, well HID bulbs with a proper color temperature produce up to three times the amount of light that a halogen bulb does. Lets take the 08+ Impreza factory lights for example. They use an H11 low beam bulb. It produces 1200 lumen. Now we put our 4200k HID kit in it, which now produces 3400 lumen. Our light source now produces around 2.8 times the light of the old halogen. Since our kit is perfect the light will all go in the same places it did before only it will be 2.8 times as bright. So that designed glare that the headlight already had is now 2.8 times brighter. Although the same thing could be said about any brighter light source, there is a huge difference in the change in light output when talking about proper halogen upgrades and an HID kit. So can Hella or even the physics god do anything about this? If they came to your house and changed out the projector or reflector for one that was designed to be used with this much brighter light source they could fix this problem. They could also take care of the crescent shaped light source problem. So now we don't even need the physics god kits, just a kit made by hella, or who ever, that comes with a new projector. It seems to me there is already a name for this kind of thing....

Oh yea its called a retrofit.

Although pictures are generally a terrible way to compare lighting because most cameras automatically change their settings based on the available light, making bright and dim lights look very similar in different pictures, I will still post this. It is a halfway decent comparison of before and after shots of an Apexcone HID kit install in an 08 WRX. Here is the link to the site. http://www.webjogger.com/WRX/2008hid/08wrxhid.htm
Here are the pics.




I think you can figure out which one is which.

You can tell what I am talking about with the camera adjusting for the different lighting conditions in those pics. Look at how much brighter the lights mounted on the sides of the garage look in the first pic than they do in the second. They didn't change in brightness and color during the time the kit was installed. The cameras settings changed. Think about it for a minute if the garage lamps in the HID pic are dimmer the whole picture is less exposed than the halogen picture. Meaning that everything in the HID picture is dimmer than it would have been if the camera's settings were the same way they were in the halogen pic. So that means if you are using the halogen pic as your benchmark to judge the glare off of, the glare in the HID pic is actually worse than it looks in the pic. Does this make sense? If I had photoshop on my computer I would change the exposure and color on the second pic so that the garage lamps looked exactly the same. This way you could see how bad the glare really is, so it wouldn't be partially masked by exposure differences. To me it already looks bad enough I can't imagine how it would look with the same exposure.

For a perfectly fair comparison you really need a camera where the settings can be manually adjusted and you need to keep the same settings for all your pics. There are ways to take pics to make anything look the way you want it. That's what photography is all about. I'm sure you have a pic or two that you took where you can't see much glare. With enough time and a good camera I could take a picture of my car during the middle of a sunny day and make it look like I took the picture in the middle of the night.
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