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Old 11-11-2004, 10:05 PM   #1
MF-DIF
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Default Cobb AP on stock opinions?

What have been your experiences with AP on an otherwise stock car? From what I've read of users...cobbs claims doesn't equate in real life. Most did not notice the car was any quicker...(ie: the 25 or so hp bump), but did notice more responsiveness. The turbo lag has really started to bug me lately. I want faster spool and more pull. What differences did you feel through the gears? Any 1/4 times? Cobb claims 13.9 avg...I don't believe it from the reviews I've read.
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Old 11-11-2004, 10:10 PM   #2
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take into account the skills of the drivers for 1/4 numbers.

cobb on stock = much better running automobile.

cobb on stock w/ bad reviews = people thinking this was way more than it is from misinterpreting what they read.

stage 1, on a real dyno, not a butt dyno, witnessed by me personally, put down 186 at the wheels on a dyno dynamics (the heartbreaker) http://www.ktrperformance.com/galler...ason_h_wrx.htm

dont expect a monster, but expect one hell of alot more responsive and stronger car.

go to stage II asap though.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:10 PM   #3
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One of the reasons that that extra power isnt as easy to feel is because of the changes they made to the curve... in stock form you have more of a sudden surge of power and in stage 1 the power delivery is a lot smoother. The power is there for sure but your just not feeling that "hit" that you can feel in stock map. If that makes any sense?
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:22 PM   #4
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I ran stage 1 with an uppipe for a couple weeks.

Now, here's my take on it. There was slightly more power (even on the 91 octane, I heard 93 octane is more impressive), a little smoother, and it held power better to redline.

Now is it worth 600 bucks just for stage 1? No, not a chance. Considering you can get an uppipe and downpipe for that much, there is no way the AP is worth it (stage 2 though is a completely different story).

Now if you are absolutely refuse to tamper with your stock exhaust system, then I guess it's better than nothing. With those three cats still in place (especially the downpipe cat) don't expect too much of a gain no matter what you do. However, if you just want a little more power, then it's a good solution, but the key word is "little."
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:37 PM   #5
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I got stage1 and its great but now im getting stage2
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:13 AM   #6
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Stage 1 is freaking bad ass. Completely changes the characteristic of the car. Much better drivability down low, and the car actually pulls.

I'm on Stage 1 with Helix uppipe, Perrin i/c hoses, inlet pipe, and Cobb catback.
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:39 AM   #7
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I would have to agree with people who say that if Cobb Stg 1 is the only mod it's not worth it. I really haven't noticed much difference from stg 1 and had to go to stg 2 even though initially I wasn't planning to. It's just that I was very dissapointed with stg 1.
Now, after you go full Turboback and Uppipe with stg 2, then we're talking some VERY noticeable improvements. But that's the whole different story (and investment).
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:25 AM   #8
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Oh yeah stage 2 rocks!! I've have been runing it since June, Its a night and day diffrence
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:25 AM   #9
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I would be another that thinks stage 1 just helped on topend and driveablity, but the claimed hp/torque gains I question. I would think those #'s would be easy to feel the difference. Before going to stage 1: stock uppipe, gutted third cat, hand picked resonator section and cleaned it up some, Prodrive muffler, PnP throttle body and I/C elbows, I/C hoses. After going to stage 1-notta. This is comparing apples to oranges but I ran a stage 1 car while I was stock and there was very little difference and now there is still very little difference.

But I think it was worth it, valet mode
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Old 11-12-2004, 09:57 AM   #10
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Um what the heck? That dyno is all over the place. I see WRX there with 131 WHP and 150 WHP. Even if you drop the 131 since it was an 4EAT, you are showing a 36 WHP gain over stock with stage one??



Quote:
Originally Posted by gusto
take into account the skills of the drivers for 1/4 numbers.

cobb on stock = much better running automobile.

cobb on stock w/ bad reviews = people thinking this was way more than it is from misinterpreting what they read.

stage 1, on a real dyno, not a butt dyno, witnessed by me personally, put down 186 at the wheels on a dyno dynamics (the heartbreaker) http://www.ktrperformance.com/galler...ason_h_wrx.htm

dont expect a monster, but expect one hell of alot more responsive and stronger car.

go to stage II asap though.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:35 AM   #11
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I like the VF34 maps myself!!
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:03 PM   #12
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I was impressed- Have been running Stg.1 93 oct. Since September I think. It made it easy to still compete in D-Stock, and have more fun w/ the car. It's lots smoother. Feels faster too. It cured my boredom w/ the performance side for now, allows me to compete in Stock classes in Auto-X and allows me to easily upgrade when I want to run a dp or full tbe. It was a perfect answer. (running in the 15 psi range in all gears)

Oh and Stg.2 is in the future, but I am really satisfied for now.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:53 PM   #13
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for me it's very simple

I loved the stock powerband for about 6 months, I wanted more, I got Stage 1 (reflash).
I've been using stage 1 for over a year (with STi uppipe and AEM pullies) and I really enjoy the power still, but again I need to feed the monster, so I'm getting the bosal DP and the AP for stage 2 (in a week or so).

I've driven my buddies stage 2, and it is MUCH stronger than mine everywhere. Especially up top where stage 1 falls off at around 5500, stage 2 keeps honking into the mid 6000's. He has only the 3rd cat left + intercooler hoses.

And draggin wagon, I thought you couldn't run stock if the boost is adjusted?
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhakar
Um what the heck? That dyno is all over the place. I see WRX there with 131 WHP and 150 WHP. Even if you drop the 131 since it was an 4EAT, you are showing a 36 WHP gain over stock with stage one??
The 186 whp plot is on a dyno that probably registered 170whp for a stock wrx. Some dynos like the one you are mentioning register low numbers for the stock car. Just depends where you do it.

Stage 1 was a definite improvement over stock. I did feel the power and the responsiveness and also my gas mileage was 2mpg better. I would definitely do it. However I would say it is not worth buying the accesport just for Stage 1. Try to get to Stage 2 at least were at least you will get your money's worth.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmint007

And draggin wagon, I thought you couldn't run stock if the boost is adjusted?

Right-
The AP allows you to run a "stock" map. Brilliant!
Spend 1 minute getting the ap set up and load map on before going, and revert "back" to stage one once I get home.

I guess if I was going to Nationals, I may want to consider reverting to stock (removing the programming all together because that would probably be protested or give me a disadvantage), but Removing the mapping counts as a "flash". Reverting to "stock" map on the AP does not.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:36 PM   #16
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I certainly believe stage 1 is worth $600. $120/hp is not a particularly bad price to pay and when I installed mine I found myself being able to climb many hills in 4th where I had previously downshifted to 3rd to keep the car from bogging. I think if you will be buying an accessport anyway, the AP stage 1 flash should come before any mechanical work done to the car, and certainly before a downpipe.
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:01 PM   #17
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[quote=elhalisf]
Stage 1 was a definite improvement over stock. I did feel the power and the responsiveness and also my gas mileage was 2mpg better. /QUOTE]


are you telling me you actually measured a 2mpg difference??!?!?!?1 that difference could of been from anything, the weather, the way you drive, where you drive............there are a million reasons.

I'm glad you like your accessport, but thats like me saying, "I totally noticed a 5hp increase."
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:40 PM   #18
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oh yeah, I also saw a 3-4 mpg increase with the stage 1 map.
and camz911 - I'm talking about an average increase over several tanks.

mpg is not exactly subjective, whereas a buttdyno would be...
No offense ButtDyno
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtlegacy
I certainly believe stage 1 is worth $600. $120/hp is not a particularly bad price to pay and when I installed mine I found myself being able to climb many hills in 4th where I had previously downshifted to 3rd to keep the car from bogging. I think if you will be buying an accessport anyway, the AP stage 1 flash should come before any mechanical work done to the car, and certainly before a downpipe.
$120/hp

damn man that is a HELL of a lot. I am at about $15/hp, most people buying brand new performance parts are at probably arouns $25/hp. But $120/hp, you must really value power I guess. But Stage 1 doesnt only get you 5hp. Its a pretty noticeable difference. Accroding to Cobb its 260hp and that is more like $18/hp
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:12 PM   #20
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[quote=camz911]
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhalisf
Stage 1 was a definite improvement over stock. I did feel the power and the responsiveness and also my gas mileage was 2mpg better. /QUOTE]


are you telling me you actually measured a 2mpg difference??!?!?!?1 that difference could of been from anything, the weather, the way you drive, where you drive............there are a million reasons.

I'm glad you like your accessport, but thats like me saying, "I totally noticed a 5hp increase."
Actually my 2mpg was more of a little experiment that I had instead of just random numbers. I tried to eliminate variables as best as I could. And it was in the summer were the weather was pretty much the same. Now my weekly driving is pretty much the same. I go through a full tank usually a week. I filled up from the same gas station as well. Could the gas station have been from different quality tanks between each time, sure, but that is as far as I could control the variables. I drove these 2 weeks without boosting once. I can control that quite easily actually, it was a hell of a 2 weeks but I wanted to see the difference. My difference was 24pmg and 26mpg with the Stage 1.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhalisf
$120/hp

damn man that is a HELL of a lot. I am at about $15/hp, most people buying brand new performance parts are at probably arouns $25/hp. But $120/hp, you must really value power I guess. But Stage 1 doesnt only get you 5hp. Its a pretty noticeable difference. Accroding to Cobb its 260hp and that is more like $18/hp

For the AP to be a good value, you really have to go past Stage 1. I mean once you're at Stage 1 and you buy a DP, all you do is plug that badboy in and...


So while AP may have costed $600 at first, going from Stage 1 to Stage 2 and picking up about 25 hp in the process costed me only $189 (picked up a new Bosal DP for cheap from somebody who won it.) THEN we're talking $7.56/hp.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:26 PM   #22
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It's true, I was getting 20 mpg with stage 2 up from 17 when I was stock.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:42 PM   #23
elhalisf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snvin
For the AP to be a good value, you really have to go past Stage 1. I mean once you're at Stage 1 and you buy a DP, all you do is plug that badboy in and...


So while AP may have costed $600 at first, going from Stage 1 to Stage 2 and picking up about 25 hp in the process costed me only $189 (picked up a new Bosal DP for cheap from somebody who won it.) THEN we're talking $7.56/hp.
$7.56/hp if you factor in just the downpipe lol. But overall though, your probably more like me since I got everything cheap too. Full TBE for $400 with AP for $600.
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhalisf
$7.56/hp if you factor in just the downpipe lol. But overall though, your probably more like me since I got everything cheap too. Full TBE for $400 with AP for $600.
Almost... Actually, if you put everything my setup looks like:

AP: $600
Bosal DP: $189
Bosal CB: $359 (and I run the stock 3rd cat in between.)

Total = $1148, divided by a gain of about 50 hp over stock = $22.96/hp.

Well worth it!
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Old 11-12-2004, 08:46 PM   #25
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I noticed a positive difference in driveability compared to stock. My best dyno run on the Stg. 1, 91oct. was 200whp/192lb/ft torque. Bone stock WRX's were dynoed at about 179whp there. My numbers can be found here. You'll have to scroll down a bit. I did 5 runs.

And just to reiterate...Stg. 2 IS a night/day difference...and that's with the stock 3rd cat/catback still on the car...
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