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Old 11-12-2004, 01:19 PM   #1
teknisa
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Default DRebel/10/20D Owners Look Here

I see alot of people always concerned with the use of lenses with the Dslr's. Even though any canon EF lens with work with any EOS camera, on the Dslr's there is an added 1.5x magnification to the focal length of the lens because the CCD or CMOS sensor isn't full frame. This isn't a bad thing for going telephoto because it just increses your MM more. But it's bad for wide angle because you're loosing MM then. With the 1.5x in play, a 24mm now acts like a 36mm....and a 300mm acts like a 450mm. Only way around this is to buy a Dslr with a full frame CCD or CMOS.

Canon just released their EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM lens for their Dslr's cameras. The super wide angle of the lens makes it equivilent to a 16-35mm with the 1.5x. MSRP is $800. This is not an L series lens nor is it a macro lens.



Just wanted to let you guys know.

Marisa
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:22 PM   #2
HndaTch627
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stop tempting me to buy one of these cameras!



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Old 11-12-2004, 01:32 PM   #3
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Well, I'd actually go against doing the EF-S (went with the Sigma 12-24 myself)... Why? Well, I'd rather be able to use my lenses on both a film camera and a digicam. EF-S lenses are not compatible with older canon bodies. Plus the 12mm on the Sigma is already pretty wide. (It has taken it's spot as the favorite lens on my 300d - albeit, i now have a tamron 28-75 f/2.8 macro i'm starting to play with)
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:07 PM   #4
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Yes, but not everyone also has a regular slr AND a Dslr......

Let's not make this harder than it sounds

As a personal pref, I stick to canon products on canon products. And I would never advise anyone to buy a tamron lens, that goes along the lines of you get what you pay for. I think the only other brand I'd consider buying is sigma only because they work closely with canon. But that's just a personal pref remember
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teknisa
Yes, but not everyone also has a regular slr AND a Dslr......

Let's not make this harder than it sounds

As a personal pref, I stick to canon products on canon products. And I would never advise anyone to buy a tamron lens, that goes along the lines of you get what you pay for. I think the only other brand I'd consider buying is sigma only because they work closely with canon. But that's just a personal pref remember

Well, not everyone can afford L glass either

In all seriousness, I had those reservations as well about the tamron lens, but so far, aside from some focusing issues i've had, the lens seems pretty good. Significantly cheaper than the L glass, and apparently the comparable sigma glass has been having some major quality problems.

btw - my searches on dpreview.com indicated that the tamron lens was actually a pretty good lens, especially when compared (as a value) to the canon L equivalent. (i should clarify I'm talking about the XR Di lens - that is if I have the abbreviation correct)
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:40 PM   #6
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Maybe I'm dense, but I always thought the 10D didn't accept the EF-S lenses. Am I wrong in this assumption?
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cyberwolf
Maybe I'm dense, but I always thought the 10D didn't accept the EF-S lenses. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Well the Drebel is based off the 10D so I dont see why it wouldnt.....they also say that that lens is for the dreble and the 20d only, but if both those cameras are based off the 10d........
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:52 PM   #8
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Just checked dpreview.com and it looks like the 10D is not compatible with EF-S lenses. So there goes the cheap alternative for me. *sigh*


Scroll down the page a bit to see the 300D/10D comparison chart
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:29 PM   #9
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EF-S lens mount is currently only compatable with 300D/KISS/DRebel & the 20D. There is talk of the 1DS MKII using them too....but no one has confirmed it not even Canon


also the ONLY part of a 10D that the DRebel has is the CMOS sensor. everything else that counts is differant and the 20D shares NO parts with a 10D & the only part is shares with a DRebel is the onboard flash.


Clayton
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Last edited by FreeBMW; 11-12-2004 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 11-12-2004, 10:40 PM   #10
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note, i did see a web page somewhere that showed how someone modified the ef-s kit lens that came with the rebel to fit on the 10d. Why? I have no idea... But it can be done.

I'll stick to plain old EF lenses for compatibility sake and I'm not too worried if the lens is a touch longer/bigger since it can't sit in further. If I cared about size, I probably wouldn't be using an SLR.
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Old 11-16-2004, 04:41 PM   #11
Section 8
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Marisa-

The multiplication factor is actually 1.6 on the 10D and the Digital rebel (not that it makes much of a difference on such a short lens). I don't know about the others, but I doubt that it is different.

Quote:
also the ONLY part of a 10D that the DRebel has is the CMOS sensor. everything else that counts is differant and the 20D shares NO parts with a 10D & the only part is shares with a DRebel is the onboard flash.

Clayton
Camera sales guy :-)
Because sales guys know everything right?

THey share the sensor and electronic hardware and a large part of the programming. I haven't taken it apart, but I imagine that it is an integrated board, and exactly the same since it actually coasts less to have them all the same than make 2 different ones for 2 different cameras.


None the less, due to the shared circuitry and programming (weather or not it is EXACTLY the smae as I would guess it is), there are numerous hacks that will allow the Digital Rebel to utilize almost all of the 10D's software "upgrades" such as faster ISO, flash exposure compensation ect. that someone would pay alot more for with no other real advantages, other than a warrenty. Which expires rather soon as with all electronics.

Of course you can just reload the factory programming if you had a problem, and return for warrenty, but that is a moral and ethical issue.

Wha-Pa!
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Old 11-16-2004, 08:20 PM   #12
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I have access to exploded parts diagrams for both units and they dont share a single circut board. As for the russian firmware hacks they dont offer all the features that they claim & there are many lock up issues running the hacked firmware.

The differances of the magnisum body, assist button alone are worth it to me....but you forgot the HUGE differance in speed & burst rate....DReb at 2.5 FPS and 4 total bust & the 10D at 3fps & 9 total burst.

I dont claim to know everything....but I do know my canon DSLRs
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberwolf
Just checked dpreview.com and it looks like the 10D is not compatible with EF-S lenses. So there goes the cheap alternative for me. *sigh*


Scroll down the page a bit to see the 300D/10D comparison chart
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/
I read some posts on dpreview a while back about some people that were buying the 18-55 EF-S lens and taking a hacksaw to the rear portion of the lens that interferes with the guts on the 10D. They didn't actually take off any glass or anything. Just part of the plastic on the back end of the lens. Supposedly, at least that EF-S lens can be made to work with the 10D in this manner, but obviously you're taking a risk if you try it.
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:28 PM   #14
Section 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBMW
I have access to exploded parts diagrams for both units and they dont share a single circut board. As for the russian firmware hacks they dont offer all the features that they claim & there are many lock up issues running the hacked firmware.
Lock up kind of like the first release of just about every entry level pro model from Canon huh? BUt I did forget that Russians are the only ones who can work computers and like Canon, there are multiple versions available, the first obviously being the worst.

Quote:
The differances of the magnisum body, assist button alone are worth it to me....but you forgot the HUGE differance in speed & burst rate....DReb at 2.5 FPS and 4 total bust & the 10D at 3fps & 9 total burst.

I dont claim to know everything....but I do know my canon DSLRs
Speed and burst rate are nice, but $500.00 no thanks. Magnesium body will not help you get better pictures, just rolls off the tongue nicly. Buffer size/speed is nice, but won't sell as many cameras as the FEC.

Something that would be worth more money is the imediate start up of the 20D, with the 17-85 USM IS blah blah blah kit lense. I paid $900.00 for mine and the kit lens keeps getting crappier (though its a $100.00, I guess its a nice lens for $100.00) as I find new things to shoot poorly with it. Vacation pictures in the sun and anything with lots of light and it works great. I spend the extra money on L glass instead of the camera.

cheeRS,

Greg
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:31 PM   #15
Section 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HndaTch627
stop tempting me to buy one of these cameras!



You want one. Just get one. They are tumbeling in price due to the release of the 20D. You will be able to buy a 10D for less than a new digital Rebel price and if you are patient you can get a complete D Rebel for $500.00 with a few accesories.

cheeRS,

Greg
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Old 11-17-2004, 12:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 8
Speed and burst rate are nice, but $500.00 no thanks. Magnesium body will not help you get better pictures, just rolls off the tongue nicly. Buffer size/speed is nice, but won't sell as many cameras as the FEC.
Well, the difference in the 10d and the 300d (digirebel) might not have been worth the $500 to some, but considering the 20d is almost the same price difference (not counting rebates on the rebel), and has a much bigger buffer (what is it, like 5fps with 20-25pictures in the buffer?), less noise on the higher ISO settings, better AF, 8 megapixel, blah blah blah... it kinda really pushes to getting the 20d now. (or the patient may wait for the updated rebel that will probably be based off the 20). Either way, (digi) camera bodies are just like computers now in regards to life cycle.

Which somewhat goes back to my one point about lens flexibility... With the bodies getting higher res sensors all the time, it's very well a possibility that we may be seeing more digital bodies that will be closer to full frame (1.3x is the talk on dpreview apparently)... but then again, who knows, after all, canon came out with this specific mount (ef-s), so they could be keeping full-frame only for the professional (1Ds) bodies.

(i might be willing to sell my digi-rebel w/ kit lens if anyone is interested... i am rather tempted to move up to the 20d)
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Old 11-18-2004, 12:46 PM   #17
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Yep. Like I said, the 20D with its 17-85 kit lens and instant on tend to be a winning proposition for me. Of course this relates to new cameras. After you have used the DREB for a while the price difference get to be alot larger.
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