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Old 11-14-2004, 07:18 PM   #1
Raiden
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Default rhythmic clicking noise at idle

I had a new clutch and flywheel installed in my WRX. Over time I started hearing a rhythimc clicking noise at idle with the car in neutral. Rev the engine the noise gets faster. Push in the clutch pedal it goes away. Put it in first it gets louder as the car pulls off. Car drives fine, transmission shifts fine, nothing slips I just have this very annoying noise. Does anyone have any idea what this noise could be?
Thanks in advance
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Old 11-14-2004, 07:19 PM   #2
blueribbon
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search TOB or throw out bearing

Mike
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:58 AM   #3
Raiden
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Thanks for the suggestion blueribbon. I had already did a search and figured that was what the problem was. I took the car back to the dealer yesterday. Funny part this is the second time. The first time I never mentioned what I thought it could be. I left the car with them all day and they didn't touch it till the last two hours of the day. They did the cruise contol cable recall and the drivers side seat bolt recall. I also metioned to them that my drivers side seat was fine. It was my passenger seat that was loose. They said they would take care of everything. I called twice and went to the shop once and my car still wasn't ready. When they finally put the car on the lift they said I possibly had stipped or broken teeth on first gear. I said that was impossible. The car still drives normally except for the noise. They told me they would have to drop and open the transmission to make sure at a cost of 800 dollars to me. Then what ever is broken would be even more money. They also didn't fix the passenger seat.
Anyway when I took the car back and made the suggestion of the TOB he listened. Had me press the clutch pedal five or six times and each time I pressed the noise would go away. He said you know that is exactly what it is. The TOB. I hate to spend the money but this noise is getting on my nerves so I will be getting it fixed.
Thanks for our help
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:40 AM   #4
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NASIOC comes through once again!

Maybe this site should be required reading for Subaru Dealer Techs.
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:53 AM   #5
Kha0S
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Well, actually, I'm inclined to think that it's a chipped first gear as well.

Having suffered two similar failures involving first gear, they all sound exactly as you describe.

Pressing the clutch pedal down permits the input shaft, upon which the drive side of first gear is cast, to stop spinning, making the noise go away.

First gear with the same noise as you describe:



That gearset shifted fine, felt fine in all gears, but was seriously damaged.

/Andrew
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:55 AM   #6
Kha0S
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I also have some video of what it sounds like:

http://teardrop.org/~kha0s/bustificinatified.avi

/Andrew
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Old 11-16-2004, 04:32 PM   #7
Raiden
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KahOS thanks, that is sorta what it sounds like except not as loud and not as deep. I guess either way it goes I am screwed. I might as well start saving for a six speed or a upgraded gearset.
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Old 11-17-2004, 07:45 AM   #8
Kha0S
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Yeah... mine definitely sounds about as nasty as it gets. It's been dying slowly over the past few months. It starts off sounding like a quiet ticking or whirring noise... over a period of weeks or months, as the wear point gets worse and the witnessing works its way into the metal on the other side of the gear, the sound will get progressively worse... until it sounds like an Apache helicopter caught in your transmission.

I've been driving my current gearbox in second gear and up to make it last the last two months while I rebuild my other box (the one in the pictures) with an STi/RA v4 gearset. I should be swapping this weekend... so trust me, I know how much it sucks.
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Old 11-17-2004, 04:29 PM   #9
Raiden
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Kha0S,
Again thanks for the info. Mine has actually been making this noise for a while. I got the clutch put in on June 28th. I babied it for the first 500 miles then started driving normally. The sound developed after a couple of weeks. Like I said it is noticeable but not nearly as loud as yours. I changed the trans oil Sunday and didn't find anything abonormal so I am still wondering if it could still be the TOB. Still dosen't matter though. A new TOB is what about 140 dollars and 490 dollars for labor? Still may as well keep driving, hope it lasts all winter and get a new trans next spring.
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Old 11-17-2004, 05:21 PM   #10
Kha0S
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Yeah, neither of my two failed transmissions had any chunks or abnormal appearing bits in the oil... just the sound... if it gets louder as time goes on, or the TOB doesn't fix it, start getting your ducks in a row for a new gearset/gearbox.

Good luck with it, dude... hope the TOB solves it.

/Andrew
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Old 11-17-2004, 05:22 PM   #11
Kha0S
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Oh, and a sidenote... you a U-M student/grad/etc.? I got my BGS there in '01.

/Andrew
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Old 11-18-2004, 06:22 PM   #12
Raiden
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Nope. Didn't go to college. I just work like a dog...funny thing is my sister did go to college and I make a couple of dollars less per hour than she does. Go figure? Still pissed about my car though. They built the performance image up of these cars so much in adds and comercials and then you find out after you buy one how easy it is to break things when you drive it the way it is marketed. I wish I had known the STI was coming out when I bought my WRX cause I surely would have waited. To late now...I'll just make my own STI and I will start with the trans
Thanks again
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Old 11-18-2004, 10:40 PM   #13
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"""They built the performance image up of these cars so much in adds and comercials and then you find out after you buy one how easy it is to break things when you drive it the way it is marketed. """

well put.
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:11 PM   #14
Raiden
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Thanks SpeedShift. It is the truth. Remember the add of the morphing rally car four wheel drifting around a corner? How about the 0 to 60 times in all the car mags? Well someone tell me how do you get a 5.8 second 0 to 60 mph time or a 14.3 second quarter mile without putting any kind of stress on the drivetrain? Drop the clutch at 5000 RPM or release it smoothly at 4500 RPM it is still gonna be stressed with torque. Other people have said they don't drive their car hard and they baby it. The only time my car got babied is at break in. I do drive it hard I am not going to lie. If I wanted to drive slow I would have bought a Yugo and saved myself a whole lot of money. If a car company advertises and sells a car as a performance car then it should be built as such. Wonder what would happen if people who owned BMW M3's broke the gears in their trannies? Corvette owners? Porsche owners? It burns my backside when I see that Subaru comercial talking about how advanced the fourwheel drive system is in the WRX when ALOT of people who own them are breaking gears. Not to advanced Subaru when you are denying waranty claims for people who break their transmissions finding out one of the beauties of all wheel drive. I say it is false advertisement. If Ford or Chevy advertises that a particular truck can tow a certain amount of weight then you buy the truck and read the owners manual and it states the towing amount is lower then somone is going to be in trouble because it can be a safety issue. Sorry I am typing so much but dammit I am mad It is simple...The WRX is a excellent car. The transmission just can't handle the horsepower and torque the engine makes and Subaru needs to address the problem with owners who have already purchased the car not in future models.
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Old 11-19-2004, 06:08 PM   #15
Kha0S
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Well, just in the interest of fairness, don't use my transmission experiences as a metric for the durability of the WRX drivetrain.

Particularly, my first transmission failed due to abuse (although, it should have been able to handle the power, but I was still racing it at the time)... when I converted to a 5MT, I went with Legacy Turbo gearboxes, of which I've now broken two. Now, with STi/RA v4 gears in a Legacy Turbo box, we'll see how well it holds together.

/Andrew
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:15 PM   #16
Raiden
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Kha0S that is my point exactly. Shouldn't the WRX transmission be able to handle the horse power and torque it makes stock? I have seen people on these boards being told it is the way they drive or they don't know how to properly drive a AWD vehicle. Listen I have owned a number of Honda Civics and I am quite sure Honda didn't intend for me to drive them the way I did. Not once did I have a transmission or engine failure. 81 Civic 100 and something thousand miles, 89' CRX Si 289,000 miles. 94' Civic Dx 170,000 miles. I drove the snot out of each car. Then I decided to buy a real sports sedan. All I am saying is Subaru needs to make it right with the people that are getting screwed with broken gears. Especially people with stock or lightly modded cars. The word abuse is subjective. If you are using something they way it was marketed to get you to buy it. Can that really be called abuse? People say because this car is AWD the transmission has more thrown at it than a FWD or RWD car. Well I say it should have been over engineered to handle the 227hp and 217 ft lbs of torque that it makes stock. Then we could talk about the only thing I anticipated burning out on this car when I bought it new in 2002....the turbo.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:49 PM   #17
Kha0S
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I think that if you took a look at the gears in this transmission, you'd understand why the power levels are too much for the components.

Virtually every AWD turbo car (DSMs, Evos, WRXs, etc.) have had problems like this with transmissions.

Look, overseas, in Japan, the UK, etc., people have been driving Impreza Turbos and WRXs with similar or higher horsepower than ours and not suffering failures. There's something to be said for driving technique preserving the transmissions in these cars.

Regardless, if you intend on racing your car, or otherwise driving it beyond "normal" driving, you have to expect some failures. With some cars, it's engine, or suspension, or steering problems that show up over time. With AWD turbo cars, such as the WRX, the transmission often proves to be the weak link.

I agree that the Subaru transmissions are weak for the power that you get out of them, but I don't think that Subaru owes anything to us. I'm on my fifth major transmission repair, and have had the car for 110,000 miles since July 2001, but you don't see me in here making that kind of noise.

You pay to play, no matter how you cut it.

Regardless, I hope that your transmission problems work out to just be the throwout bearing.

Good luck,

/Andrew
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Old 11-20-2004, 02:23 AM   #18
Retro
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Since people are beating on the Subaru Transmission, I'll throw my 2 cents in. I don't believe the transmission is too weak, but I do believe it is barely adequate. The transmission does not live up to sports sedan status, but does live up to a->b car with 227 hp status. In my opinion Subaru did us a disservice by baiting us with the sports car marketing and SCCA memberships.

Subaru accomplished their goals of making money and getting their name more popular in the US comercial market. The only thing you can do when a product disappoints you is to learn from that and spread the word.
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:15 AM   #19
Raiden
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Ok I'll stop making noise now
Thanks for your help Kha0s
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