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Old 11-23-2004, 02:38 AM   #1
trail*of*dead
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Default So who has gotten their Hydra/Element yet?

I was just wondering, I am on the list, haven't heard anything for a while. Just wondering how many people had them yet, and some feedback about the units.
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:05 PM   #2
engineerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning
........The information that the units would arrive at Element Tuning the second week of November was accurate and assured all the way up to November 4th when I met with Hydra during SEMA. Unfortunately I received a call while I was at Time Attack that the shipment is missing somewhere between Asia and California. What are the odds? I would never have asked for a deposit unless I was assured of an accurate delivery date.

We should know more information next week as the Hydra engineer left the US yesterday. Luckily not all the units were on this shipment so the next batch can be shipped out to the US next week.

I apologize for the delay…again.

Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Better use the "SEARCH" before the All too Powerful Gurus / Specialist / Elite tell you to !!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...56#post8124856


We're all waiting for it !!!
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Old 11-23-2004, 07:22 PM   #3
trail*of*dead
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I got this today:
"It’s been a rough one getting the STI units. The release date was accurate all the way up until the end of SEMA and then I got a call while competing in the Time Attack that a shipment had been lost. Unfortunately that shipment was never found and Hydra is collecting the insurance. Now according to Hydra they have 100 units for me which are being finished in the US but they had to wait for the parts that were missing and the last official word was that they would ship them to me in 1.5 weeks from now.



I wish I had more specific information but I hate to commit based on our current track record of release dates. Now Hydra is completely apologetic and is updating everyone’s STI unit for free to the closed loop AVCS control which was going to be a $150.00 upgrade. I told them no one cares, they just want their computers on time but it was a nice gesture anyway "
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Old 11-23-2004, 08:50 PM   #4
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(after almost a year's wait) I think that I am the #1 person on Phil's STI Hydra list, but only Phil knows for sure. I have not been happy at all (putting it mildly) with all the delays and false promises. I would surely lose my job if I missed so many deadlines to my customers, but where else do I go for a standalone? I think Phil is a good guy, but I just wish he would differentiate himself from the rest of the aftermarket community by giving accurate dates. Why is it so hard to get Subaru aftermarket parts? (Cobb, Axis, TXS, AEM, Garrett, now Hydra, etc. this means you)

I can understand them telling me it wouldn't be out until now 2 months ago, but every week I get the "It's 2 weeks away" answer only to have to cancel another apointment with Phil. Supposedly, I should have mine in the beginning of December, but we'll see.

I know Phil is only the primary distributor for Hydra, but he is still responsible for customer communication.

I just hope it is worth the wait and my car finally makes some HP after a year of sitting in my garage with an upgraded turbo.
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Old 11-23-2004, 09:52 PM   #5
Element Tuning
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This is a hard situation for all of us. Keep in mind the delays have cost Element Tuning a loss of thousands and thousands of dollars in revenue. We apologize for the Hydra delays and will give anyone that asks, a refund without hesitation.

We don't mean to give out inaccurate information but we rely on the accuracy of our supplier for release dates. Until I get a tracking number from Hydra I will not give out another release date.

Sincerely,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:06 PM   #6
JRJ WRX
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wgnknestrick,

I know you have been waiting a long time for your STI Hydra but Phil is the wrong person to blame. I had one of the first WRX Hydras and have spent many days at Phil's house getting my car tuned to make the base map for the WRX Hydra. Let me tell you that Phil is doing everything he can to get them out but he is just the middle man here. He actually wanted the STI Hydra out before the WRX one because he knew there was more of a demand in the STI community but Hydra wanted to do the WRX. Phil is one of the coolest and most helpful person I have met. I understand your fustration but Phil is doing everything he can. It's well worth the wait.

Jeff W

Last edited by JRJ WRX; 11-23-2004 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-23-2004, 11:16 PM   #7
engineerx
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We are all as frustrated as WGNNKESTRICK,
I think we just gotta know that new high-tech products are always subject to delays. Take Prodrive for example: I put off suspension mods because of their announcement of Active Shock Suspension - I'm a sucker for cool new technology.. so there I went waiting for Prodrive and their AST... and waited.... and waited... until I said screw it! and went and got some TEIN RA's installed last week they're sweet ! and I decreased my time at the track by about 4 seconds!

I sure hope the Hydra is worth the long wait! The alternatives (UTEC, Unichip, e-Manage, AP, EcuTek, Link, etc...) just don't measure up - based on what is claimed for the Hydra STi. I rather wait a few months for a hardware done right. However if you have your car non-operational.. uuugh! I'd be very frustrated...

Anyway ... let's just hope we get Hydra in time for X-Mas!

Phil - thanks for the information provided lately, even if it has been bad news... at least that relieves some anxiety for most.....

JRJ WRX,
I've called Phil a couple of times, buggering him "Will the Hydra work with my APS parts , Do I need resistor pack from my 720cc injectors, will it run well on Calif 91 gas...?" etc, Phil was always really helpful, informative and friendly, I know that he should be the last person to blame and that he is the 1st one to want those Hydra STi's ready to ship!

Last edited by engineerx; 11-23-2004 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 11-24-2004, 04:51 AM   #8
bboy
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I talked to Phil at length today. Can you imagine having 100 units lost in the mail....I can't. I'd want to strangle somebody. The units will be awesome and set a new definition for tuning the STi. I think it will be a glorious x-mas.

Why not more WRX guys. There are lots of them out there. I wish they were more vocal.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:30 AM   #9
Element Tuning
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Let me clarify: 100 units were not lost, it was a small initial batch that was to hold us over and some components until the 100 other units were completed. If 100 units were lost, I would just have thrown my hands up in the air and said it wasn't meant to be

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:32 AM   #10
mnavarro
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I also have been waiting for the Hyda for some time, but I could no longer wait. I have all the respect for Phil but this product delivery has slipped so many times that I have no confidence this will be shipped before X-mas. I'm happy with my ecutek setup right now, in the future I will revisit the Hydra.

To be honest my heart goes out to Phil, he has worked so hard to make this a success, and it must be painful (both financially and emotionally) to have this beyond his control. I'm sure that no matter how frustrated we are his frustration is an order of magnitude greater than ours.
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Old 11-24-2004, 12:48 PM   #11
trail*of*dead
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To be honest, I really don't want to give any one but Phil my business. Now, if I understood correctly, we get an added feature that normally costs 150$ for free. To me that makes up a lot for the added delay that Phil had no control over. It actually worked out well for me because a deer hit my car a couple weeks back, and it is in the shop now. Which means if everything would have shipped out, I would have an pretty thing in a box that I would have to stare at for a month.
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:37 PM   #12
bboy
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F(*&King deer, they love to beat on cars.....I'm sure the deer lost more than you.

Sorry Phil for the misquote, the sentiment is the same.

Miguel, congrats on that tune you've got again. You can always sell that EcuTek'd unit and get a Hydra, but I think EcuTek is a great product and tool.

Phil, if you've got the time can you explain the AVCS "closed loop" stuff....... Is it constantly adjusting the valve timing and what does it reference for "knowledge".
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Old 11-25-2004, 02:48 PM   #13
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I have a 2002 wrx that I've had a hydra on since the 1st of August or so. I'm also running AVCS (I've got V7 heads). I ran a hillclimb within a week of getting the unit and came in 19th place out of 51 cars, having never run a hillclimb before and only getting 1 of my 4 runs because of wrecks on the hill that slowed the entire event. THATS how easy this unit is to use.

Currently the AVCS is not closed loop, but it sounds like it will be very shortly - this is great news. Right now, you set the solenoid duty cycle to a number, and you can't tell what timing your getting, ie open loop solenoid control. No feedback. Initially the AVCS maps sent out with the first WRX versions were WAY off - ie on the dyno having AVCS cost me 110whp. Unplugged it, retuned and went from 250whp to 360whp (I knew something was wrong, but I didn't think it was THAT far off! LOL). Let this be a lesson, do NOT run 100% AVCS duty on boost, it doesn't work

The solution was to log both an STi and a subaru with V7 heads - the AVCS map was basically copied from logs from those two cars (at least my map is, not sure about the STi maps). I have yet to make it back to the dyno, but will be doing so shortly - but I can tell you, I have a slowboy GT30-14 turbo (its basically a GT35, 65lb compressor wheel) and the car will accelerate from about 2200rpm, with full boost around 4000rpm in 4th gear. So AVCS is definitely pulling before boost is.

I would assume (and I'm sure Phil will correct me if I'm not ) that the closed loop will allow you to set an AVCS timing number instead of a solenoid duty number. 30 degrees AVCS at 2500rpm/460mm vacuum. That sort of thing (its a 3d map, RPM vs. load).

Have patience guys... this thing kicks butt. Its SO much better than the stock ECU ever was just driving around town - so much smoother, no hesitation, no bucking at low throttle inputs, no backfiring... the car runs SMOOTH which is awesome considering the power output I'm at I have yet to hear of anybody that has gone through Phil and is disappointed with their unit. That says something....
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Old 11-25-2004, 04:20 PM   #14
bboy
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I'd like to see a dyno plot of that turbo, that compressor is huge.

How are you dealing with tuning when you can only change one cell at a time? There are so many load points it seems like a hassle, but Phil says you get used to it. Do you have the wide band to help fine tune.

I wonder if you can gain access to the raw table files in ASCII format, that would at least let you export the file to another spreadsheet program.
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Old 11-25-2004, 05:43 PM   #15
DarthChicken
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I've heard next month (December) they are updating the software so you can change multiple cells at a time. Yes, I have the wideband option, and I agree with Phil - its not that bad, you get used to it. Space bar to edit, up or down arrow to add or subtract fuel, and then space bar to exit edit mode. Each cell.

What you can do to get it close is set a value at say 4000rpm, and then copy down from there. From there you let autotune take over and adjust, and your done for the most part (run conservative timing while your doing this obviously). The amount of injector millisecond time remains pretty close over an RPM range believe it or not - my maps show at 22psi for example a change between 13.6 and 14.7milliseconds with modded stocker injectors (ie 850s). This is also with a 1.1mm aquamist nozzle running a methanol/water mix, so those numbers are a little misleading (ie low) but you get the idea... its just not that bad. Let the Hydra do the work for you!

As for the turbo - this is the first time I've had a turbo that I've been blown away by for weeks on end. Normally you get jaded to the power, and need more (ie crack or herion, LOL) but not this time
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Old 11-25-2004, 10:50 PM   #16
Veck
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I've had mine for a few months on my WRX and I am really enjoying it. Tuning has not been too much of a hassle. The base maps are good starting points and if you get the autotune option you can have the Hydra do some of the work for you.

I'm coming from a UTEC to the Hydra and I've got about the same amount of time invested in tweaking my Hydra map as I devoted to tweaking my UTEC maps.
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:31 PM   #17
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The day has almost arrived. Thanks again for your patience.

Here's a pic of the final STI unit mounted to wet your appetite



Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:35 PM   #18
bboy
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Wet my appetite, I wet my pants.....
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Old 12-02-2004, 06:47 PM   #19
offset
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It's amazing that a picture like that can put a big goofy grin on a persons face

offset
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Old 12-02-2004, 07:19 PM   #20
wgknestrick
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So that's the exact unit I will be getting.....looking good Phil, looking good. At least I won't have to post pics when I get it.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:13 PM   #21
engineerx
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Has hell frozen over?
Has the fat lady sung?

I can't believe it !!

I just go paid too and got the $$ for that beauty !!
Can't wait to get it !!

Phil I knew you'd come through right around X-Mas time...... oh Jolly X-Mas!
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Old 12-02-2004, 11:05 PM   #22
STIgeorge
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I am patiently waiting with money in my checking account...

-George
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:42 PM   #23
wgknestrick
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Well, It's official. I should have that STI Hydra pictured above installed this Sunday. Keep an eye on PPB for dyno plots next week.
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:32 PM   #24
engineerx
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You Lucky specialist !

Drrrrroooooooool...... Droooooooool.......

Please do keep us updated - and thanks in advance!

I feel the way I felt when I was 6 yrs old and was getting my first bicycle for X-Mas!
it's 30 yrs later and it's nice to have that feeling once again... sigh !
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:43 PM   #25
wgknestrick
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I'm not sure who is happier, me or my wife. Me? because I am finally done with my car or my wife? because she finally gets her husband back from the garage......Me definitely me.
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