subwooferless speaker setup suggestions?

LSPR_MTU · 12-13-2004, 03:39 PM

Hey all. I'm looking to upgrade the s%#$ front speakers in my '04 WRX sedan. I'd like to avoid getting a subwoofer, but I want some decent bass. I've read a bunch of other threads about people's systems and setups, but not too many w/o a subwoofer.

I have seen some good deals on Infinity Reference 6000cs, which I've heard sound excellent and install fairly easily. I've also heard that some people think coax speakers put out better bass. I do not, however, want to sacrifice the clarity and imaging of components. I'm trying to stay below $250 for everything (ebay rules). What do you guys recommend?

I'll probably end up putting in a cheap 4-channel amp, especially if I install new components. If I have to, I may also end up getting a factory woofer (hides nicely under the seat). That brings me to another thing...does it matter if I buy an ultra-cheap amp (Legacy brand) to bring 50W rms to all the speakers?

**********************
Before you tell me that speakers are too subjective to judge...
I've heard the Infinity 6000cs, and they sound wonderful. The only problem is the bass response could be better. Unfortunately, I don't have access to really good stores that carry dozen's of component systems, and I'll probably be buying online. I mainly listen to techno (PVD, Oakenfold, Deep Dish, Tiesto), but I also listen to rock, classical, and instrumental. I need some really punchy bass, but nothing too low (rumbly). Imaging is important.

Sorry for the ooberlong thread! cheers :-)

FujiFast · 12-13-2004, 03:56 PM

sub $250 for the entire speaker/amp system...and sound good? not very realistic. if you want good bass response without a sub, you'll more than likely have to get components and with foam baffles so seal it in the cavity, otherwise you'll just get more rattle and vibration in the panels with the added response.
if you plan on keeping the stock head, just go for quality speakers and skip the amp for now, the difference will be significant with just that change...and with $250 you can get yourself a mid-level set of MB Quarts(best in the business) and some Dynamat foam baffles. therefore, once spring comes around and if you want to upgrade a bit more, you can invest in a new head unit(the music will be limited to the quality of the source) and a little 2 channel amp, low end Xtant, JL audio, Phoenix Gold, Alpine(if you're just doing the front speakers).

Good luck!

LSPR_MTU · 12-13-2004, 04:30 PM

FujiFast, I hear ya. I haven't really heard too much about MB Quarts, but on their website it looks like they require anywhere from 50 - 150 Wrms (at least the model I looked at.) That would imply I'd still have to install an amp. I doubt I'll being upgrading my HU, because I like the 6-disc + tape HU, and I cannot justify spending hundreds of dollars for a new HU. (I'd probably be tempted to get a DVD + mp3 capable HU!)

I totally agree about the foam baffles though, I definitely planned on doing that. I'll check out the Quarts a little more. Although, one selling point on the Inf. 6000cs is they are pretty shallow and easily installed (from what I read). I'd like to get speakers with very manageble dimensions.

Thanks for the post!

**************************
BTW - Has anyone gone through the business of find rattling trouble-spots on their front door? How bad/involved is it? I don't mind foam here and there, but taking the door apart is not my idea of a good time!

Gfunk720 · 12-13-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSPR_MTU

FujiFast, I hear ya. I haven't really heard too much about MB Quarts, but on their website it looks like they require anywhere from 50 - 150 Wrms (at least the model I looked at.) That would imply I'd still have to install an amp. I doubt I'll being upgrading my HU, because I like the 6-disc + tape HU, and I cannot justify spending hundreds of dollars for a new HU. (I'd probably be tempted to get a DVD + mp3 capable HU!)

I totally agree about the foam baffles though, I definitely planned on doing that. I'll check out the Quarts a little more. Although, one selling point on the Inf. 6000cs is they are pretty shallow and easily installed (from what I read). I'd like to get speakers with very manageble dimensions.

Thanks for the post!

**************************
BTW - Has anyone gone through the business of find rattling trouble-spots on their front door? How bad/involved is it? I don't mind foam here and there, but taking the door apart is not my idea of a good time!

Installed another members MB quartz this summer. Very nice component set w/ cross over, and I think he got em off ebay for under 100 bucks. You will need a set of speaker adapters though, additional wire, and a dremel at minimum. To run them off the stock head unit may require some additional wiring too

You will have to take the door of anyway to do the speakers, so you may want to put in some dynamat(or prefered brand) in while you have em off. There is a slight vibration at higher volumes, but nothing unbearable. I would definetely suggest an amp though too, as the stock head unit is very underpowered.

LSPR_MTU · 12-14-2004, 02:36 PM

Alright, I've done a bit of research, and right now the two most serious contenders are the Infinity reference 6000cs, and the MB Quart Discus DSE-216. I have to find out where I can find the Quarts, to hear them and decide for myself. I'm going to get a cheap 4x40Wrms amplifier on Ebay, since anything would probably be better than HU power. I may not hook my stock rear speakers up...we'll see.

If the amplifier ends up being crap, I'll swap it out later. I'm also going to take someone's advice and get install kits from Innovative Automotive, and make life a little easier. I'll also get some foam baffles or equivalent to better seal the speaker.

Or... I may end up swallowing my pride and having someone else install all this crap. I'm guessing the bill would be about...

MB Quarts DSE-216: $105.00 on ebay (assuming I like the sound)
Legacy Boss c350 400W amp: $40.00 on Ebay
$50 speaker install
$60 amp install
$50 installation hardware costs

Total: $305

I guess that's a little more than I had originally planned, but hopefully it will sound good!

Any thoughts anyone???

NicEJ25 · 12-14-2004, 02:50 PM

if you want tu use stock HU and stock rear speakers, then don't waste your money on 4 channel amp. my suggestion is david navone LOC, a decent 2-channel amplifier (75w rms x2) and CDT CL-62. those are a bang for the buck just like the CL-61, with more power handling and excursion, and will able to handle 75w rms full range. I currently have cl-61 in my father's car, with 75w rms to each, and it's produce enough bass (after adjusting the boost) to not need a subwoofer at moderate listening level, but I feel like 75w rms of low frequency will make them move more than what they are designed too. However, to get that kind of bass out of impreza doors, a good deadening job will be needed. stay away from foam baffle. the soft ones will flap the hell inside your doors, and the stiff ones might be too small and cause midbass muddiness.

ppierce04wrx · 05-19-2005, 02:16 AM

I just installed a set of Infinity reference 6000cs components in my front doors and tweets in the sail panels. i have a 10" infinity kappa perfect sub in a 1 cu ft sealed box in the trumk with a fosgate amp and infinity reference 5002i 5 1/4 inch mids in the rear doors. still powered by the stock headunit, (currently on ebay for sale) and sounds great. i got a jvc cd/dvd head unit waiting to go in but the din pocket for the install where the clock is is on the way. total layout so far........
6000cs..........................ebay............$1 10.00 shipped(brand new)
5002i............................ciircuit city....$79.00 open box buy
Kappa perfect 10 sub.......ebay............$110.00 shipped
q logic sealed box............circuit city....$40.00 open box buy
fosgate amp...................ebay............$$125.00 shipped(brand new)

i would consider this a budget system with good components since it has taken me about 18 months of buying each part in stages to find the best price.

0db · 05-19-2005, 06:19 PM

If you want bass from your front doors with no subwoofer, you NEED to not only mat/deaden the door like crazy, you need to do the very best you can to seal the door cavity completely. Look for raamaudio's instructions on door deadening.

mvorchard · 05-19-2005, 07:05 PM

Man! What happened to your "budget" system?

MO

ppierce04wrx · 05-19-2005, 11:15 PM

budget by means of not buying $300 components speakers and $400 subs but finding the lowest prices available for decent parts that i wont have to replace later down the road. i listed everything including cost so the original writer of this post would have a more realistic view of what he would need to spend.........i.e. more than $250 to make it worth his time.

mvorchard · 05-20-2005, 09:44 AM

I was referring to LSPR_MTU's old system.... he even posted some nice pictures IIRC.

12-13-2004, 03:39 PM	#1
LSPR_MTU Scooby Newbie Member#: 77370 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Bloomington, IN Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX WR Blue	subwooferless speaker setup suggestions? Hey all. I'm looking to upgrade the s%#$ front speakers in my '04 WRX sedan. I'd like to avoid getting a subwoofer, but I want some decent bass. I've read a bunch of other threads about people's systems and setups, but not too many w/o a subwoofer. I have seen some good deals on Infinity Reference 6000cs, which I've heard sound excellent and install fairly easily. I've also heard that some people think coax speakers put out better bass. I do not, however, want to sacrifice the clarity and imaging of components. I'm trying to stay below $250 for everything (ebay rules). What do you guys recommend? I'll probably end up putting in a cheap 4-channel amp, especially if I install new components. If I have to, I may also end up getting a factory woofer (hides nicely under the seat). That brings me to another thing...does it matter if I buy an ultra-cheap amp (Legacy brand) to bring 50W rms to all the speakers? ********************** Before you tell me that speakers are too subjective to judge... I've heard the Infinity 6000cs, and they sound wonderful. The only problem is the bass response could be better. Unfortunately, I don't have access to really good stores that carry dozen's of component systems, and I'll probably be buying online. I mainly listen to techno (PVD, Oakenfold, Deep Dish, Tiesto), but I also listen to rock, classical, and instrumental. I need some really punchy bass, but nothing too low (rumbly). Imaging is important. Sorry for the ooberlong thread! cheers :-) Last edited by LSPR_MTU; 12-13-2004 at 03:46 PM.

05-19-2005, 02:16 AM	#7
ppierce04wrx Scooby Newbie Member#: 68685 Join Date: Aug 2004	infinity 6000cs I just installed a set of Infinity reference 6000cs components in my front doors and tweets in the sail panels. i have a 10" infinity kappa perfect sub in a 1 cu ft sealed box in the trumk with a fosgate amp and infinity reference 5002i 5 1/4 inch mids in the rear doors. still powered by the stock headunit, (currently on ebay for sale) and sounds great. i got a jvc cd/dvd head unit waiting to go in but the din pocket for the install where the clock is is on the way. total layout so far........ 6000cs..........................ebay............$1 10.00 shipped(brand new) 5002i............................ciircuit city....$79.00 open box buy Kappa perfect 10 sub.......ebay............$110.00 shipped q logic sealed box............circuit city....$40.00 open box buy fosgate amp...................ebay............$$125.00 shipped(brand new) i would consider this a budget system with good components since it has taken me about 18 months of buying each part in stages to find the best price.

05-19-2005, 11:15 PM	#10
ppierce04wrx Scooby Newbie Member#: 68685 Join Date: Aug 2004	- budget by means of not buying $300 components speakers and $400 subs but finding the lowest prices available for decent parts that i wont have to replace later down the road. i listed everything including cost so the original writer of this post would have a more realistic view of what he would need to spend.........i.e. more than $250 to make it worth his time.

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12-13-2004, 03:56 PM	#2
FujiFast Scooby Newbie Member#: 76147 Join Date: Nov 2004	sub $250 for the entire speaker/amp system...and sound good? not very realistic. if you want good bass response without a sub, you'll more than likely have to get components and with foam baffles so seal it in the cavity, otherwise you'll just get more rattle and vibration in the panels with the added response. if you plan on keeping the stock head, just go for quality speakers and skip the amp for now, the difference will be significant with just that change...and with $250 you can get yourself a mid-level set of MB Quarts(best in the business) and some Dynamat foam baffles. therefore, once spring comes around and if you want to upgrade a bit more, you can invest in a new head unit(the music will be limited to the quality of the source) and a little 2 channel amp, low end Xtant, JL audio, Phoenix Gold, Alpine(if you're just doing the front speakers). Good luck!

12-13-2004, 04:30 PM	#3
LSPR_MTU Scooby Newbie Member#: 77370 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Bloomington, IN Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX WR Blue	FujiFast, I hear ya. I haven't really heard too much about MB Quarts, but on their website it looks like they require anywhere from 50 - 150 Wrms (at least the model I looked at.) That would imply I'd still have to install an amp. I doubt I'll being upgrading my HU, because I like the 6-disc + tape HU, and I cannot justify spending hundreds of dollars for a new HU. (I'd probably be tempted to get a DVD + mp3 capable HU!) I totally agree about the foam baffles though, I definitely planned on doing that. I'll check out the Quarts a little more. Although, one selling point on the Inf. 6000cs is they are pretty shallow and easily installed (from what I read). I'd like to get speakers with very manageble dimensions. Thanks for the post! ************************** BTW - Has anyone gone through the business of find rattling trouble-spots on their front door? How bad/involved is it? I don't mind foam here and there, but taking the door apart is not my idea of a good time!

12-14-2004, 02:36 PM	#5
LSPR_MTU Scooby Newbie Member#: 77370 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Bloomington, IN Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX WR Blue	Alright, I've done a bit of research, and right now the two most serious contenders are the Infinity reference 6000cs, and the MB Quart Discus DSE-216. I have to find out where I can find the Quarts, to hear them and decide for myself. I'm going to get a cheap 4x40Wrms amplifier on Ebay, since anything would probably be better than HU power. I may not hook my stock rear speakers up...we'll see. If the amplifier ends up being crap, I'll swap it out later. I'm also going to take someone's advice and get install kits from Innovative Automotive, and make life a little easier. I'll also get some foam baffles or equivalent to better seal the speaker. Or... I may end up swallowing my pride and having someone else install all this crap. I'm guessing the bill would be about... MB Quarts DSE-216: $105.00 on ebay (assuming I like the sound) Legacy Boss c350 400W amp: $40.00 on Ebay $50 speaker install $60 amp install $50 installation hardware costs Total: $305 I guess that's a little more than I had originally planned, but hopefully it will sound good! Any thoughts anyone???

12-14-2004, 02:50 PM	#6
NicEJ25 Scooby Specialist Member#: 26155 Join Date: Oct 2002 Chapter/Region: E. Canada Location: Levis,qc,ca Vehicle: 2002 Impreza TS Aspen White	if you want tu use stock HU and stock rear speakers, then don't waste your money on 4 channel amp. my suggestion is david navone LOC, a decent 2-channel amplifier (75w rms x2) and CDT CL-62. those are a bang for the buck just like the CL-61, with more power handling and excursion, and will able to handle 75w rms full range. I currently have cl-61 in my father's car, with 75w rms to each, and it's produce enough bass (after adjusting the boost) to not need a subwoofer at moderate listening level, but I feel like 75w rms of low frequency will make them move more than what they are designed too. However, to get that kind of bass out of impreza doors, a good deadening job will be needed. stay away from foam baffle. the soft ones will flap the hell inside your doors, and the stiff ones might be too small and cause midbass muddiness.

05-19-2005, 06:19 PM	#8
0db Scooby Specialist Member#: 33879 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ventura, CA	If you want bass from your front doors with no subwoofer, you NEED to not only mat/deaden the door like crazy, you need to do the very best you can to seal the door cavity completely. Look for raamaudio's instructions on door deadening.

05-19-2005, 07:05 PM	#9
mvorchard Scooby Specialist Member#: 42540 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Vehicle: 2007 Forester XT Metallic Grey	Man! What happened to your "budget" system? MO

05-20-2005, 09:44 AM	#11
mvorchard Scooby Specialist Member#: 42540 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Vehicle: 2007 Forester XT Metallic Grey	I was referring to LSPR_MTU's old system.... he even posted some nice pictures IIRC.