Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Impreza Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2001, 02:55 PM   #1
Hergfest
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5689
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Woodinville, WA
Question Are we entering a new Muscle Car era?

I started looking at this board because I was considering buying a WRX (Still am, just need some more money saved up). But as a owner of a 1970 Plymouth Satellite ex-Cop Car with the 383 4-barrel (330hp, 400+ lb/ft of torque, it's just my toy too), are we entering another Muscle Car Era? In looking for a new car, I have visited many boards on various cars and everyone talks about stoplight races, something that hasn't happened much since the Muscle Car era because HP is just now catching up. Just look at some of the new cars coming out in the next few years. Is the government going to start cracking down soon? Is a 400hp Viper enough for anyone? Should we be having family cars with over 240hp (i.e. New Altima, Maxima, Acura TL Type S).
I know this is a bit off topic, but thought I would put it out there. Who knows, maybe insurance companies will nuke the HP wars first.

[This message has been edited by Hergfest (edited April 16, 2001).]
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Hergfest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 03:01 PM   #2
M
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4470
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dc suburbs
Vehicle:
2002 Subaru WRX
Blaze Yellow

Post

tell insurance companies where to stick it. We very well might be entering a new muscle era. You'll notice many of the younger people have rediculus rides that start out low cost and are highly modified. However it really isn't a muscle era because there are very few popular cheap v-8's anymore. If gas goes down then we'll look at the next generation of muscle cars. It's gas that kills all great things.
M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 03:06 PM   #3
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Post

I don't know if we're enterring a new muscle car era, but performance is definitely becoming King in all areas of the market. There's definitely a horsepower war going on. The new Q45 has 350hp I think, the Passat (the Passat, for Chrissakes!) is going to have a W-8, the Audi A8 is getting a 420hp W-12, the new Blazer has a 270hp inline-6, supercharged Pathfinders with 240hp, Neon R/T with 150hp, the soon-to-arrive Mini Cooper S with 150hp (I think), luxury SUVs (Escalades and Navigators) with 300+hp, etc etc.

The last horsepower war was brought to an end by the gas crises, but with modern technology these cars put out more power than their predecessors yet still get much better mileage and produce fewer emissions. It's pretty amazing. I sure ain't complainin'!!

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 03:32 PM   #4
tmat3
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2817
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: NYC and Troy, NY
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
BRP

Post

I think it's going more toward who makes the most power out of small engines. Who could've thought a decade ago that a Honda could actually make a 240HP (I think it's 250-ish in Japan?) out of a 2.0 N/A engine for street use?

Everyone wants power. But, I think that many people want gas efficiency also. V8 gives you good torque and HP, but bad gas mileage.
tmat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 03:38 PM   #5
gavin
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3198
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Portland, OR USA
Vehicle:
2005 GT LTD Wagon
Garnet Red

Post

The HP race, is, as is just about anything else here, traceable to the economic condition. The fuel Economy standards imposed in '72, along with the recession, killed the HP craze, then, and which is why you're seeing more HP out of smaller engines, now. Without the accompanying recession, it probably wouldn't have happened.

As long as the checks keep coming, Americans will purchase power regardless of fuel prices. The SUV craze in the face of $1.50/gal fuel prices is a perfect example. 16/19MPG from a new automobile is disgraceful.
gavin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 03:59 PM   #6
Ippon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 4881
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Shoreline, WA, USA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS
BRP

Post

I wouldn't say this is a muscle car era beginning because for most of us, it's not all about hp. It's also about suspension and other aspects. Muscle cars were JUST HP as far as I've seen.
Ippon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 04:39 PM   #7
Overtime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1346
Join Date: Apr 2000
Post

I don't think we're looking at a renewed muscle car era. That first one was before my time, but if you look at all the factory options you had, it was easy to get yourself a fast car straight from the factory.

I don't think we have anything like that right now. What we do have is powertrain technology keeping pace with increasing emissions standards, which is nice.

Gas prices are kinda high, but if you adjust for inflation, they're not that bad at all. And performance burns gas...V8, I4, H6...if you drive your car hard, it burns gas.

Of course, the days of 5mpg are over.
Overtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 05:49 PM   #8
remarcable
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2362
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South Carolina, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy Outback
Blue w/ Paint Chips & Mud

Post

Actually, my mom's family car makes over 260hp

Lincoln Continental.

I love turning the traction control off, sticking it in '1' and doing FWD burnouts.

That boat handles like crap but the power is definatly there. Stopping that monster is tough though. BIG brakes.
remarcable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 06:01 PM   #9
ajday
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 127
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Seattle, USA
Vehicle:
1999 Imp RS
Rally Blue

Post

I don't believe the 240 HP Pathfinder is supercharged. Some of the Nissan Frontier pick-ups are supercharged (210 HP) and there is a supercharged Xterra coming in August. The GMC Envoy is also 270 HP. The new Ford Explorer is available with 240 HP and etc. A
ajday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 06:04 PM   #10
Scooby South
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator
 
Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: 2013 Limited SWP BRZ and a
Vehicle:
99 Ver6 Recreation
JDM Speedwagon 3 LSDs..:)

Post

I think so...I predicted this last year...When word of the WRX was coming...I expect to see some Factory Cars that are truly Muscle cars of the "New Tech" age...Look at Ford..AWD Focus "R" with a supercharger coming next year... Subaru STi, EVO 7, The new Z, Mazda MPG and the new RX8, Nissan SE"R", amongst others...I fully expect this trend to continue. Look at the SCCA membership..It is currently riding an all time high Membership with no end in sight...SOLO 2 has grown 450% since 1998....And I LOVE IT>..hehehehe

I LOVE TECHNOLOGY..wahooooooooooooo and we are the benifactors....insurance be damned...
Scooby South is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 06:18 PM   #11
Skylab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, Ca
Exclamation


Quote:
The SUV craze in the face of $1.50/gal fuel prices is a perfect example

Try $1.79 for 87 octane in San Diego.
And for 92, $2.09/gal @ Unocal 76.


Skylab

poor you, at a buck and a half. *sob*
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 06:42 PM   #12
D-Rock
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3651
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Salem, NH
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS Coupe

Post

It's the SUVs that should have the high insurance. SUVs roll over easily and cause more damage when they are involved in accidents. To top it all off they don't handle well. I don't mind the SUVs like the Forrester and other SUVs built on regular car chasis but the ones built on truck chasis just need to go. Why can't I just drive a tank to work. You guys ever see that police chase with the tank? I guess thats the direction the manufacturers are going.
D-Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 07:02 PM   #13
RS22b
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5413
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: The stages
Vehicle:
#15 2-Subaru
Rally Cars !!! Fiesta!

Post

I think the hp craze is here and here to stay. Like many of us in school, still this is a good thing for us b/c down the line in a couple of years these high hp stock cars are going to be ours to own. Leases will be up and people that can afford the newer higher hp cars will want them and leave their cars for us.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I LOVE THIS GAME!!!
RS22b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 07:29 PM   #14
pooreman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3209
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Memphis,TN,USA
Post

Well I would call it more a war of HP. Muscle Cars (in my opinion) are big real metal cars with v8's. Tall and wide tires that you let out about half the air for better grip before a race.

I bet the war will be with big HP in 4dr cars. Lots of folks want to take their buds along or family ya know.
pooreman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 07:46 PM   #15
Skobie
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3307
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Philly
Post

Definately!

When's the last time you were encouraged by the manufacturer to race? (Just sent in my SCCA application for the WRX!)

Of very interesting note is the disclaimer in the application, which states that:
1) "SOA does not in any way paticipate in, evaluate, condone, or assume any responsibility for the activities or events of the SCCA" [Comment: yet the brochure also invites one to "explore the capabilities of your new WRX in the SCCA"! nudge, nudge, wink, wink]
2) "All Subaru vehicles sold by SOA are designed and built for normal driving conditions" [ Comment: You mean normal for most people, or normal for Subaru drivers, who feast on a regular diet of autox rubber, cones, rallycross dirt, and drifting snow.]
3) "The Subaru Limited Warranty...excludes damage resulting from participation in competition or racing events" [Comment: "Mr. Dealer, you mean to tell me that my interior moisture problem won't be covered since I installed my roof scoop?"]

These double messages from the manufacturer were part of the first musclecar era. I remember reading about the 1968 Dodge Darts and Plymouth Barracudas that were factory prepped for NHRA Super Stock, with stripped interiors, acid dipped body windows and body panels, steelies and skinnies mounted on an rear axle with narrowed spring perches (so that they can presumably be swapped for slicks by the new owner), and came delivered in primer, ready for drag car paint. They came with a window sticker that had similar language: "Because this vehicle was especially designed for motorsports competition, this vehicle may not meet the usual fit and finish standards of the Chrysler Corporation, and, thus, the 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty does not apply to this vehicle".

The "weapons race" mentality of manufacturers is running strong, and I'm loving every minute of it. Look at our situation: Do we shell out for the hot WRX and enjoy it now, or do we wait for the even hotter Sti? We're watching the enemy like in the old days: if Mitsu brings the Evo, well, then, we'll bring the Sti. (sounds like: Chevy engineer "If Ford can put a big block in the 67 Mustang, so can we in the 68 Camaro". Ford engineer: Chevy can sell the hot Z28, we'll just bring out the BOSS 302 for SCCA racing").

Funny, but the fact that the WRX was delivered to the USA with a dink wheel / tire combination again reminds me of the Dart example, and of the Plymouth Road Runner as well - SOA helped keep the price down in a market where owners were likely to ditch the factory wheels and tires anyway for rolling stock that suited their individual needs and tastes.

For all you young whips, this old fart (36 on Tuesday!) says please enjoy the 2nd musclecar era - this is what it must have been like in the late 60s, and having spent my teen years in the bleakest of automotive times in the late 70's, I can tell you, I never thought I'd see it happen again.
Skobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 07:46 PM   #16
subymamma
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2575
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Winter Park, Florida
Vehicle:
2008 Forester 2.5X
Dark Gray Metallic

Post

The other day I was thinking about the similarities between muscle cars and this craze. Sure, the engines have been transformed and no more carburateurs (sp?), but that's bound to happen as things modernize. Alot of you guys work on your own cars. Back then they still modified stock cars and tried to crank out as much as they could. It was no autocross, only straight drag, but the whole essence is the same. Instead of American Graffiti, it's Japanese Graffiti.
subymamma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2001, 10:51 PM   #17
Hergfest
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5689
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Woodinville, WA
Post

This is cool, I wanted to get a good discussion going. I am in the boat where I say that the more HP you have, the better. But then I see 16 year old's getting their hands on Mustang GT's or Integra GS-R's and they are going to kill themselves! I crashed my first car racing (1991 Mazda MX-6), and I thank my parents that they didn't let me buy a car with more HP. I have also owned, in the past, a 1998 Ford Contour SVT with 195hp, and I LOVED that car, but I couldn't stand the Ford quality, so I sold it for a Honda. But it was quick, and I have a lot more driving experience behind me and I learned to drive the car safe (and slow down in the corners...). Well, here's to me getting enough cash together to put down a down payment on a WRX!
Oh, and I might add I get around 10mpg in the city with my Satellite . My have things changed...
Hergfest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2001, 05:02 AM   #18
D-Rock
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3651
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Salem, NH
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS Coupe

Post

I think the newer cars will have more HP until the electric/hybrid cars take over. I'm just hoping the technology can come through to make the electric cars really fast.
D-Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2001, 05:44 AM   #19
Adrian128
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3346
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney,Australia
Post

We here in Australia have been a bit more fortunate with the availability of cars like the WRX, Skylines, Supras, RX7s etc for a while now. But we also have our fair share of V8 performance cars, and it all just makes the scene so much better. You have the turbo tech heads, and you have the "street machine" guys, with the big V8s and stuff. All in all it's just great.. I love it.
Adrian128 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2001, 06:46 AM   #20
spcled
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5680
Join Date: Apr 2001
Vehicle:
2001 2.5RS
Sedona Red

Post

The muscle cars of the 60's and 70's had a completely different concept in mind... strip down the car and put the largest displacement motor possible under the hood. They were mainly for strait line speed, with some exceptions (AC Cobra, Shelby Mustang). These new cars are built on the theory of all around performance and some confort to boot. And last but not least, these new cars arent producing nearly the same amount of tourque - and thats the stuff that makes real muscle cars great

Thats my $0.02
spcled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2001, 01:54 PM   #21
Jaguarcult
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5870
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX US
Post

Yup Muscle is back. I've got a 98 TA that, without too much trouble turns 13.0 in the quarter and I love to chase my friends in thier 911 to work on the twisties. Granted, I had to replace every moving suspension part, but, it'll do it

Some of us in the Generals play pen are waiting for the second gernation LS1 which we are hearing will crank 420 Hp at the wheels. But, here I am, talking about a buying a WRXm <shrugs>. See what happens.

Don't discount Detroit Aluminum
Jaguarcult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2001, 02:09 PM   #22
RS2001
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3210
Join Date: Dec 2000
Vehicle:
2001 RS Coupe
Silverthorn

Post

Muscle cars are big, heavy, noisy cars that handle like *****. Manufacturers these days are trying to corner 2 markets. #1)The performance sedan market (M5, WRX, S4, etc.) and #2)the supercar market (Carrera GT, SLR, W12, etc.) I like the way things are going, I just wish I was rich because there are way to many cars that I want.
RS2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are we stuck with a wrecked car? Gerkins31 Off-Topic 31 12-21-2009 08:47 PM
Are we the only REAL specific car comunity? Five-seveN General Community 42 08-13-2009 01:35 AM
change the way we enter our cars dankEe Off-Topic 7 12-13-2007 10:36 PM
would you buy a new "old" muscle car? dmitrik4 Off-Topic 25 06-06-2003 11:01 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.