|
||||||||||||||||
![]() Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
|
|
|||||||




![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#1 |
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
Term usage: "Anti-lift kits" go by several names, among them are Anti-lift kit, ALK, Anti lift, P.S.R.S., transverse link bushings, and possibly a few others. Anti-lift kit or ALK is the common and incorrect term that lumps all of these products under the same term. For the sake of continuity, this post will refer to all of these as Anti-lift kit or ALK.
What are ALK upgrades? The come in either two forms: a. stiffer bushings alone. (smallest upgrade) Though these aren't traditionally associated with the term ALK, they are a similar upgrade worthy of mention as they are closely associated. b. stiffer bushings accompanied by redesigned and remanufactured housings. (largest upgrade) Basically these replace the bushing that holds the transverse link (AKA the control arm) and the entire mounting bracket with redesigned and relocated bracket. Who manufactures ALKs? Perrin Positive Steering Response System (P.S.R.S.) Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit (ALK) GT Spec Antilift Kit STi Transverse Link Bushings (bottom of pg 8) **Both STi and Group N parts have the same part number Whiteline KCA375 offset Transverse Link bushings What do ALKs do? One can separate them into the two varieties for better explanation: a. The STi/STi Group N bushings are firmer versions of the stock bushings. The possibility exists that these two bushings may be identical though no one has confirmed this either way. They utilize the factory transverse link bushing mounts and will prove better toe control at speed/braking and crisper turn-in. They can additionaly transmit a increased amount of noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) into the passenger compartment. They are considered a small upgrade. They are designed to increase steering response and better turn-in characteristics. b. Whiteline's KCA375 offset Transverse Link bushings are firmer versions of the stock bushings and also contain an offset fitment designed to change the suspension geometry by adding additional positive caster. They utilize the factory transverse link bushing mounts and will prove better toe control at speed/braking and crisper turn-in. They can additionaly transmit a increased amount of noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) into the passenger compartment. They are considered a small upgrade. They are designed to increase steering response and better turn-in characteristics. c. Whiteline's, Perrin's, and GT Spec's offerings are firmer versions of the stock bushings and also replace the stock factory transverse link bushing mounts with redesigned units that will prove better toe control at speed/braking and crisper turn-in as well as change the suspension geometry by adding additional positive caster. They can additionaly transmit a increased amount of noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) into the passenger compartment. They are considered a large upgrade. They are designed to increase steering response and better turn-in characteristics. How do the large upgrade units (Whiteline, Perrin, & GT Spec) work? Layman's Explanation They relocate the transverse link mount by varying degrees (depending on manufacturer specs) changing the car's OEM suspension alignment by adding additional positive caster. To imagine the physical working of this technical change, please consider the following analogy: Imagine you are arm wrestling someone using a straight arm. You have an equal chance of winning if you keep a straight arm. Now imagine you are arm wrestling someone with their hand bent at the wrist. This transmits your straight arm force from one direction to two directions, straight down and a sweeping motion towards the table. This is the exact way the large upgrade units work. When braking or accelerating, they change the suspension angle so that some of the force is diverted not through the springs, but through the car's inherent chassis stiffness. This diversion amounts to an increased amount of the front end lift during acceleration and increased amount of front end dive during braking. These changes allow a pressure change on the contact patch of the front tires during acceleration and braking. This pressure change is actually beneficial and evens out the suspension better allowing for better and faster steering, especially into and out of cornering. Though a bad example, some have even likened it to a poor man's front LSD based upon the way it improves front grip. Technical Explanation They change the suspension geometry of your front end by lowering the aft control arm bushings by varying amounts (depends on the manufacturer) increasing caster by varying degrees (depends on the manufacturer) of extra static caster. They change the front pitch and caster geometry by relocating the rear pivot point of the front lower control arm both in the vertical and horizontal plane. The suspension reconfiguration combines to provide the following benefits: 1. Stiffer bushings gives a more solid mounting point for the suspension which does a few things most important of which are better toe control at speed/braking and crisper turn-in. 2. Extra caster which gives a stronger on-center feel to the steering as well as more "dynamic camber" during cornering. 3. Remove the anti-lift and anti-dive characteristics of the stock suspension. What this means is that it effectively softens your front suspension's movement which allows the wheel to follow the road a little better during acceleration/braking in a corner. What do the terms anti-lift and anti-dive mean? These terms are very, very confusing as most readers can get confused over the apparent double negative connotation of the terms. Anti-lift is your car's natural ability to absorb lifting forces. This means a car with 100% anti-lift during hard acceleration would exhibit no force transfer to the springs of the car. Stated another way, 100% of the lifting caused by acceleration would be absorbed by the chassis, not the springs. Anti-dive is your car's natural ability to absorb diving forces. This means a car with 100% anti-dive during hard braking would exhibit no force transfer to the springs of the car. Stated another way, 100% of the diving caused by braking would be absorbed by the chassis, not the springs. How are these terms applicable to large upgrade units (Whiteline, Perrin, & GT Spec)? These kits, to varying degrees, decrease your car's natural anti-lift and anti-dive characteristics. This will soften the front suspension during acceleration and braking and a softer suspension will even out the load on the front tires, giving a higher total total cornering load available or more front end grip. Another way of looking at this is that under acceleration or braking, the effective spring stiffness is lower, reducing the front end anti-roll resistance, hence reducing weight transfer at the front and less understeer. Who is a good candidate for this type of suspension modification? Nearly everyone. This modification is an extremely popular suspension upgrade and one that most users truly feel and can experience as opposed to some suspension upgrades that seem to perform better. How would this effect me in terms of autocross classing? Consult your rulebook for further details. Generally speaking, the large upgrade units (Whiteline, Perrin, & GT Spec) are NOT legal except for the most extreme categories. They are not even allowed in Street Modified. The smaller upgrade units (STi, STi Group N, and Whiteline KCA375 offset Transverse Link bushings) are allowed. How can I compare the current ALKs? It is probably best to refer to the manufacturer's websites to obtain the best information, though the following can be consider highlights based on current information: Whiteline's Anti-Lift Kit (ALK): a. Made of aircraft grade 7075 aluminum. b. Available in three different bushing ratings. The urethane bushings are identical in physical dimensions, however the 'Duro' or hardness of the bushes is what differs. The comfort version is the softest of the bushings with a duro rating of 70D (Yellow in color with number 70 stamped on face), but still firmer than OEM bushings. The standard version is harder with a rating of 80D (Yellow in color), and the race version has a rating of 90D (Black in color), which is extremely hard. c. Changes the suspension geometry of your front end by lowering the aft control arm bushings by 20mm increasing approximately 0.5 deg of extra static caster. Perrin's (P.S.R.S.): a. Made of extruded 6061 aluminum. b. Uses Teflon lined, spherical metal bearings (bushings) eliminating any possibility of deflection seen by the stock factory mounts. c. Changes the suspension geometry by the following specifications: WRX Wagon gets approximately 3.75 degrees of caster. WRX Sedan gets approximately 4.2 degrees of caster. STi gets approximately 5 degrees of caster. The differences are because of the control arms. If you have a WRX with STI control arms you will have the 5 degrees. GT Spec Antilift Kit: a. Made of aircraft grade 7075 aluminum. b. Uses a rubber bushing which is much stiffer than the softer factory rubber ones. c. Adds .35 degrees of caster. Can you compare one manufacturer to another? Not totally, but there are a few points: a. Bushing firmness can be compared via this flow diagram: Stock --> Whiteline Comfort --> GroupN --> Whiteline Sport --> Whiteline Race. One would hypothesize that the STi transverse link bushing would fall in a similar firmness rating of the Whiteline Comfort as they are an upgrade to the stock bushings, that is if they are in fact different than the GroupN version ones. One could also hypothesize that the Perrin P.S.R.S. with it's metal bushings would provide the highest level of firmness. How do I install ALKs? Refer to the manufacturer's instructions. For transverse link upgrades without instructions, below are links to some of the better known installation instructions: .pdf of STi/STi Group N Transverse link installation instructions (.pdf) Whiteline ALK installation instructions (.pdf) Whiteline KCA375 offset Transverse Link bushings instructions (.pdf) When I install these, will I need an alignment after wards? Yes. In addition, you may consider this post regarding toe settings when utilizing Whiteline's ALK. What is the biggest drawback to this type of modification? The increase in noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH). Generally speaking, the more firm the bushing, more NVH you will experience. The two types to specifically research thoroughly prior to purchasing in this regard are the Perrin's (P.S.R.S.) and Whiteline's Sport Version ALK. Where can I learn more about this type of modification? You can research specific parts via the NASIOC search feature. Not to discredit the other manufacturers, but Whiteline, their Vendors, and magazines featuring their product have stellar documentation that may provide supporting data for this type of modification. MRT article Whileline ALK Discussion Paper (.pdf) Whileline ALK Discussion Paper (.pdf) Autospeed article Autospeed article (.pdf) Hot 4 article] Editors Note This post was created because I wasn't able to find a good ALK FAQ. I came up with the text based on LOTS of searching here. It was also created to be intentionally brand neutral so that it serves as a stepping stone for further research. Upon reading this you should have an idea of what type of ALK best suits your needs. The manufacturer is up to you. If you find an error in this FAQ, please PM me with factual details and I will update this post. Responses such as, "I have XXX's ALK and it's great!" or "XXX's ALK broke after 1 month" are not appreciated here, that is what the Car Parts Review Forum is for.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Last edited by Scooby921; 03-31-2011 at 09:02 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 43259
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Vehicle:1999 2.0RS RBP |
Unabomber strikes again
|
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 49305
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:2002 Stg.2 WRX Wagon Silver |
Awesome. Wish this had been around a month back when I was trying to get a handle on what the ALK actually does.
Last edited by realwomble; 12-15-2004 at 10:39 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63076
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Caulifornia
Vehicle:2004 Outback Sport Red! |
Can we make this a sticky, please?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 14934
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:2002 WRX WRB |
GT Spec does have a website:
www.gtspec.com |
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 64511
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:2003 WRX sedan WRB VF36 EJ207 |
Nice info
Last edited by K1WRC; 12-16-2004 at 12:24 AM. Reason: should have just pm'd him |
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Scooby Guru
Member#: 60671
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island
Vehicle:1991 e30 318i s50b30us swapped SOLD! |
just a shot in the dark, what socket would i use for the transverse link nut and the two mount bolts per side.
is it 17mm and 14mm? |
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
Thanks for the posts and PMs reporting goofs and errors folks. So far, I'm happy that I haven't gotten anything majorly wrong so far. I've PM'd/email the folks at Whiteline and Perrin to put their eyes on it as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 28278
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Francisco
Vehicle:02 WRX Platinum |
Excellent!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63445
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Lebanon, (SW) Missouri, USA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon PSM |
Many thanks!!
So, that takes care or the rear transverse link bushing. What about the front bushing in the crossmember? Should it be left as-is? Thanks again. |
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 7453
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Grapevine, TX
Vehicle:2005 Legacy GT Wagon 2006 LJ Rubicon |
First off its confusing to say that the change to the anti-lift geometry reduces grip (in the Layman's Explanation section) and then later on say how these parts increase grip.
Also, if you want to include the STi bushings (although they don't really have anything to do with the anti-lift geometry) you should also cover the whiteline bushings that use the stock mounts but increase caster. |
|
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Scooby Guru
Member#: 60671
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island
Vehicle:1991 e30 318i s50b30us swapped SOLD! |
i installed my perrin positive steering responce system today, very straight forward and easy. the process is tedious but all you need is a crow bar, 19mm socket, rachet, 22mm socket, maybe 22mm wrench (box end) and a torque wrench.
i love it. it is defiantely more active in steering, and it doesnt nose dive as hard under braking (i can only assume it would help applying force to the groudn rather than being deflected int eh bushing) and while acceleration still seems the same, the car doestn rauise up int eh front as bad. exit speeds out of the corner is mroe predictable, and tighter. i liek this psrs. the key is tightening ont he transverse link (or arm) before you mount to the body. because the spherical bearing is so large, its difficult to rotate, so aligning with the chassis might get tricky. but not impossible. i love it and would racomend it to anyone. i am due for an alignment now to straiten my toe problems |
|
|
|
|
|
#13 | ||
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
Quote:
Quote:
As to Whiteling bushings that use the stock mounts but increase caster, they make such an animal? Part number or linky? |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#14 | |
|
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK Houston we have an Uncle |
Quote:
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Scooby Guru
Member#: 60671
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island
Vehicle:1991 e30 318i s50b30us swapped SOLD! |
that would be scary if it were pressed in wrong
|
|
|
|
|
|
#16 | |
|
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:OK Houston we have an Uncle |
Quote:
...nah...just give ya a cross caster problem. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#17 | |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63445
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Lebanon, (SW) Missouri, USA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon PSM |
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#18 | |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 7453
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: Grapevine, TX
Vehicle:2005 Legacy GT Wagon 2006 LJ Rubicon |
Quote:
Edit: I believe you are talking about bushing #11 in this diagram. I think that there is a Noltec or Whiteline diagram floating around that shows what bushings they make replacements for, but I can't find it. Edit #2: Here is the diagram I was talking about and it looks like at least Whiteline and Noltec make replacements for them. Not sure what the install entails. ![]() Edit #3: It would seem that at least at one time the front transverse link bushings were only available in a size that fit the older bodystyle cars. The mounting location in the bugeye and onward imprezas is slightly wider and requires the use of shims if you are to use the older bushings. I don't know if there are new versions of these bushings for the newer cars. Last edited by driggity; 12-17-2004 at 09:02 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#19 |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 41842
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Morgantown, WV
Vehicle:2006 LGT LTD 5SM OBP |
Believe it or not, I was waiting for this post. I actually understand it better now. I was planning on buying the Whiteline's this spring anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#20 | |||
|
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 73476
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Quote:
Quote:
edit: I'm incorrect, see my next post. Quote:
Last edited by kwak; 12-19-2004 at 03:12 PM. |
|||
|
|
|
|
|
#21 |
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
I'm too tired now to respond/fix any of this new info. I'll try to hook it all up tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#22 | |
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
Quote:
All other changes have been addressed in the main body from other people. Thanks for the resposes and keep them coming if you have them. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#23 | |
|
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 63445
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Lebanon, (SW) Missouri, USA
Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon PSM |
Quote:
Yes. I did not know if the one modification of #6 necessitated the replacement of the other two (#11) in the crossmember. Apparently, because of their mounting position and the difficulty of finding the upgraded bushings, it is neither suggested nor required??? Which, suits me juuuust fine!! Thanks for the clarification. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#24 |
|
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 73476
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Unabomber, great job on writing up all the information.
The 2nd paragraph in the Layman's Explanation still didn't seem right so I pulled out my books and the Whiteline papers. Turns out I had the anti-lift vs weight transfer relationship backwards. (For you technical folks, yes I know that some books say anti-lift does not affect weight transfer.)Bullet 3 in the Technical explanation is a better summary than the above mentioned paragraph. So to add something not previously mentioned... During acceleration and braking the nose of the car moves up or down. Having anti-lift or anti-dive is something manufacturers do on purpose to the suspension geometry to reduce the amount of body motion. Unfortunately it has the side effect of reducing grip. Again, great job on the writeup! |
|
|
|
|
|
#25 |
|
Big Ron
Moderator Member#: 18062
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: I can save you a ton of cash
Vehicle:on car parts so PM me b4 j00 buy |
Thanks for your comments. I 100% understand the confusion as this is one modification that is very confusing. I should probably state for the record the official Cliff Notes of this post:
Get an ALK. It works great, but understanding WHY is a bit of a challenge. ![]() |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| (FS) Whiteline Anti-lift kit, Roll center kit, Swaybars (F,R) GR STI | m3evobr | Suspension/Brakes/Handling | 11 | 05-07-2010 09:19 AM |
| To Anti-Lift Kit..? Or, Not to Anti-Lift..? PSRS (+Video) | krylon | General Community | 45 | 11-07-2009 10:10 PM |
| VA: Whiteline Anti Lift Kit w/ caster kit | richy_21 | Suspension/Brakes/Handling | 26 | 09-22-2007 12:25 PM |
| NE1 want a Whitline Anti-Lift Kit? | rrsettgast | Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC | 8 | 06-13-2000 05:59 AM |
| anti lift kit | greg | Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC | 6 | 05-21-2000 10:02 PM |