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Old 12-16-2004, 10:53 PM   #1
KIMUTAKU
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Default AirCare owned me!

ok guys.. i must have been one of the first patch to do Aircare for a wrx..

first time: hks-uppipe, stock dp, rsr-catback = failed bad..

I was shocked, given the fact that A LOT OF ppl here say that removing the uppipe cat is no big deal for aircare, i thought it was fine. But no, it didn't work. At first I thought maybe it was the 2nd o2 sensor because I had a resistor spiced in there before. I returned it back to stock before going to aircare, but my mechanic said it could have been broken because of the cutting and stuff. So next day I took my car to the shop and have it checked. The o2 sensor was fine, but we couldn't get readings from the first 02 sensor before the uppipe. That was really weird. Anyway, I put eveything back on except the uppipe. Test it, HC and CO2 readings were way high! HC was literally 1000X above passing level. So now the only thing left was the uppipe. I thought if that didn't do it, I would be screwed because either the ecu map was bad or 1 of the cats was a lazy cat.

Next day, I brought everything in since i was gonna part the car out anyway. The uppipe was definitely a PITA. Holy crap it took so long to remove the hks one, but it took longer to put the stock one back on. Apparently the guy who put it on stripped 1 stud and 1 bolt. Then came the best part, the dp heatshield. Well my mechanic wasn't exactly a subaru specialist and it was his first time working on the hs. It was extremely tricky to put it back on. However, i assume if we had instructions, it would have been a piece of cake. So now my car was all stock, engine wise. Tested it, good readings! Before, HC was at 300, and shot up to 3000 between throttles. Now it's at 8. Yea I know heh.. so I went to aircare and pass.

Second time: stock uppipe, stock dp, stock bov, stock exhaust = perfect

So to all you out there with an catless uppipe, put it back on before going to aircare! I was too stupid to listen to ppl here about this and that. The uppipe cat is NOT a small cat, in fact, it's very restrictive. Unfortunately there are a lot of misinformation around. So beware guys.

Oh another thing, the o2 resistor is no good. My car was smoother with the stock dp. I think it gives the ecu a stable signal which isn't good at all because the signal has to fluctuate. I was just burning more gas. But the uppipe was an improvement. Now throttle response is not as good. So if you want a cel fix, do the mechanic one! Or even better, get ecu upgrade. Cut your stock 02 senosr and you are saying goodbye to warranty.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 12-16-2004, 10:57 PM   #2
Nightrunner
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I think it is your RSR-catback that is not passing. That thing is a monster!
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:29 PM   #3
Dendrobium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIMUTAKU
ok guys.. i must have been one of the first patch to do Aircare for a wrx..

first time: hks-uppipe, stock dp, rsr-catback = failed bad..

<snip>...I would be screwed because either the ecu map was bad or 1 of the cats was a lazy cat.

<snip>
Second time: stock uppipe, stock dp, stock bov, stock exhaust = perfect

Thanks for listening.
Great info -- thanks for sharing!

Questions:
1. When you went through the first time -- did you have BOTH the stock dp, and the stock mid-pipe cat in? (I assume you had both on on from clues in your post, but I wasn't sure)

2. The first time you went -- were your cats nice and hot? and how long had you had your stock dp back on for? (had your ECU fully re-adapted to it?)

3. When you failed -- did you fail because it exceeded allowable limits at "idle" or "driving" or both?

4. The second time you went and passed -- how long did you drive around in "stock" mode for before you went to get tested?

Perhaps you are right -- the up-pipe cat isn't just there to help with cold-start emissions -- but is in fact, more generally required for ULEV or at least LEV. I'm not sure what standards BC AirCare tests to as compared to Cali though

glad to hear you finally passed though!
-- Dendrobium
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Old 12-17-2004, 12:00 AM   #4
Gethin
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I thought the cali guys had passed emissions with just downpipe cats? Strange.....
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Old 12-17-2004, 12:11 AM   #5
KIMUTAKU
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yup first time i went i had both stock and stock mid pipe cats.. i drove it for 3 days, and before going to aircare..

here are the readings.

first time..
HC: max 0.3700, mine 0.7854, avg 0.0554 FAIL
CO: max 6.2100, mine 6.4297, avg 2.2418 FAIL
Nox: max 0.9300, mine 0.1847, avg 0.2162 PASS

no idle test..

second time..

HC: 0.0254 PASS
CO: 0.9669 PASS
Nox: 0.0776 PASS

i went right away this time (after install), with the car warm up of course.

so it IS the uppipe cat... i didn't believe it at first, but i was wrong..
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:07 AM   #6
stisp33d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIMUTAKU
i went right away this time (after install), with the car warm up of course.

so it IS the uppipe cat... i didn't believe it at first, but i was wrong..
This might be a noob question but, doesn't the aftermarket bov makes the car run rich and full of pollutants?
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:48 AM   #7
Happy_Days
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THis post makes me sick...


I think im gonna get a custom Centerpipe made for my exhaust that has 2-3 cats, just for aircare. I HATE taking the god damned DP off...

and no way in hell am i going to attempt the Uppipe on jack stands..
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:48 AM   #8
aawen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stisp33d
This might be a noob question but, doesn't the aftermarket bov makes the car run rich and full of pollutants?
ya... i agree, you had aftermarket bov on your car, and it caused the car run too rich.
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Old 12-17-2004, 02:49 AM   #9
KIMUTAKU
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that is a good point.. it could have been the bov.. but dayam, failure due to a bov alone..

maybe next guy can test this out?? =P

the dp is not too bad.. it's the stock one that kills.. and the heat shield.. and of course the uppipe too, which involves jacking the engine, fighting with those bolts and studs..

we had to use a flame guy (dunno what it's called) for 1 of the bolt on the stock uppipe because it was stripped badly..

another thing, i mentioned in some other post about fuel smell after the uppipe install.. i didn't get that smell when i had catless dp.. so the uppipe cat is actually doing a great deal of work! iirc, HC is unburn fuel?.. so there..

anywayz, i just wanna give u guys heads up.. don't make a mistake like i did..
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Old 12-17-2004, 03:35 AM   #10
Uncle Ben
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Would an intake affect emissions at all?

I wonder if I'd pass with the stock uppipe/bypass valve and catless dp and catback exhaust...
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Old 12-17-2004, 12:11 PM   #11
steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIMUTAKU
Oh another thing, the o2 resistor is no good. My car was smoother with the stock dp. I think it gives the ecu a stable signal which isn't good at all because the signal has to fluctuate.
I try to tell people that the mechanical fix is the only true way to lower the voltage on the secondary O2, but they don't believe me.


FYI, the BOV is more than enough to cause a fail. You're flooding the system with fuel for air that isn't there, and it affects everything for that split second. Aircare reads in realtime, and measures the peak, thus it sees how dirty the exhaust is when the BOV is open.
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:03 PM   #12
Kevin
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Well I'll have to aircare my car this year. I intend to try it the way it is with just one high flow cat. All I need to decide on is which map to flash the ECU with when I go.

Or, I might just cancel and renew my insurance a few weeks before it expires
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:16 PM   #13
KIMUTAKU
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hypa: i saw your cel fix in another thread.. that's the way to do it man!

intake is totally fine.. i still had mine on when i passed..

<quote>I wonder if I'd pass with the stock uppipe/bypass valve and catless dp and catback exhaust...</quote>

try it! let us know..
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Old 12-17-2004, 02:31 PM   #14
patr
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this is incorrect info

you should pass with an up-pipe de-cat

if you are failing with the rest stock, its something else, like your u-p o2 or your bov

the 2nd 02 does nothing for your aircare !!!!!

-Pat
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:14 PM   #15
ghostfoot7
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Thanks for sharing your info:

I think I'm going to go pass my aircare for 2 years before I even touch the exhaust system!! Holy crap that sounds like it was a huge PITA to do! $$$ too probably.
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Old 12-17-2004, 06:37 PM   #16
[YeS.SiR]
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What's the timeline for aircare?
Is it 3 years after the car is first registered?
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:05 PM   #17
Gethin
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4 years

The uppipe as far as I knew was cold start only.....

Hey pat, did you get a chance to reply to my email? Hope I did not scare you away with the offer of donuts! lol!

Gethin.

Last edited by Gethin; 12-17-2004 at 08:05 PM. Reason: adding info
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:21 PM   #18
[YeS.SiR]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gethin
4 years
And then 2 years thereafter?
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:30 PM   #19
Gethin
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I believe so
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Old 12-17-2004, 09:04 PM   #20
KIMUTAKU
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it's 3 years in my experience..

my car was purchased in july 2002, but i used the insurance on the previous car which was due in jan 02..

somebody plz go do aircare without the uppipe cat.. and let us know.. i have not heard of any case where ppl pass it yet.. ppl are just assuming it would pass.. again, this is my own experience only.. maybe there is something else wrong with my car?..

and yes it's PITA.. so far, i have removed the stock dp 3 times, stock uppipe once (done by an accessory shop), stock exhaust once.. and installed stock dp 2 times, stock uppipe once, stock exhaust once, aftermarket up, dp and catback once.. all of those include removing the intercooler.. oh yeah..
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:27 PM   #21
Gethin
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Bought my car in Aug 2001 and my Air Care is due in Aug 2005.
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Old 12-17-2004, 10:30 PM   #22
Gethin
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Type in your reg number on the Q&A section and it will tell you when you are due

http://www.aircare.ca/
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Old 12-18-2004, 02:52 AM   #23
patr
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Talking

gethin , i can barely type right now as I had hanf surgery on monday (dont ask long story), but you can call me its easier 604 815 1541 or 604 892 0151 (or if you dont want long distance 771 4229)

kimutaku, I wouldnt post about u/p if i didn't know... but every modd'ed car is different. I've been offering money back on passing aircare for some reflashes with u-p removed... all have passed but they also have some other mods ! But if your case is true with ONLY up and no other mods... (and all else functioning correctly and cats hot and car in closed loop) then its the first i've seen, can you clarify that and everything else in stock working order ?

p.s. if you are scared about aircare and you know u will fail you can try showing up with studded tires (borrow for a day) or Z territory insurance, if either option is cheaper than simple exhaust swap for a day. For our bigger projects that dont/cant do either, and major swaps, we also have an almost failsafe 'pass system' we lend out to some rally car customers.

-pat
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:08 AM   #24
[YeS.SiR]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gethin
Type in your reg number on the Q&A section and it will tell you when you are due

http://www.aircare.ca/
I don't think it works unless you've aircared the car before. As WRXs are 2002+, they likely haven't been entered into the system yet.
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Old 12-18-2004, 05:06 AM   #25
bwco
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My car went through air care last year with: catless uppipe, exhaust mainfold, aem intake, and a hks bov + 2 stock cats after the turbo. I don't know how I'm able to pass aircare with that, but I did.

The numbers are at margin and bearly make it. But still, it's a PASS.
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