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Old 12-18-2004, 03:06 AM   #1
jlee8196
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Default Hydra Newbie. Any advice?

Finally.
I have a turboxs stage4, but with stock intercooler.
i've been running stock ECU for a month, because I sold the utec after i'd order
the hydra.. Thought I'll get the hydra soon, but didn't happen. So, no driving
5psi+ or 60%+ tps.. for almost 2 month.
Just got mine WRX hydra today. So any helpful tips?
The instruction on hydra says can't use USB to serial. new laptop don't have serial, any tried? Also anyway to power hydra without installing it in the car, so i can connect on desktop.
thanks.
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Old 12-18-2004, 07:27 AM   #2
aaronyoung
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You should be able to power it using a 12 volt power source (i.e. battery)
I have to wonder what you plan to do with it though, being that the sensors will not be connected?

do they not have demo software?
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Old 12-18-2004, 10:18 PM   #3
Hitokiri
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I have not been able to get the hydra to work on my USB to serial converter.

I am determined to figure it out though and I will for sure thell everyone when I do. It actually worked once.. but I haven't figured out what exactly I did to get it to work that day. I think it has to do wit the way Hydra initializes and sets up the comm port.

Todd
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Old 12-19-2004, 12:37 AM   #4
Veck
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I have it working with a USB serial converter on my laptop. I'm using the IConcepts PDA USB adapter. It was 20 bucks at compusa.

I had tried a few other brands previously but they did not work well.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:57 AM   #5
jlee8196
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I just install the hydra. my heart was about to die, cuz car couldn't start..
but after some tries it did 5 or 6. I think it was probably the fuel pressure was reset.
Car idles well, might need little tweek. But other than that, it's PnP..
The map Phil installed works well. but.
How do i adjust the boost map? it's different than fuel and timing.
how do i switch maps, like the utec does?
do i leave auto tune on all the time, should i turn off when it makes the correct changes to the fuel map.
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:18 AM   #6
bboy
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I don't have my Hydra yet, but from my tinkering with GPS I've found that the manufactuer of the USB-RS-232 converter is important. Belkin brand worked for my purpose then.

jlee, the boost map is part of the fuel map, it's load (Manifold Absolute Pressure) vs. RPM. Or are you looking for the Boost vs TPS map? Or the maximum boost vs RPM settings?
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:04 AM   #7
CK02WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee8196
how do i switch maps, like the utec does?
do i leave auto tune on all the time, should i turn off when it makes the correct changes to the fuel map.
For pump gas tune your car for every boost level you want to run and you won't need to change maps. You'll only need to change the amount of boost you want to run. Which is easy if you have a MBC or EBC that have mutiple settings. The Aux map can be used for a race gas map. You'll have to contact Phil and find out what pin on the harness needs to be tapped. I think a simple ground switch and wire is all you'll need to activate the AUX map. Use the autotune while you are tuning and once the AFR's are in line with your targets set the OLF back to normal.
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Old 12-19-2004, 05:16 PM   #8
jlee8196
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does the auto tune need to be connected to the laptop to work?
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Old 12-19-2004, 06:32 PM   #9
bboy
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^^^^^ yes and no. Autotune will work without the laptop, but changes must be uploaded before you shut the car off and downloaded back to the ECU to "save" the auto-tuned changes. So, you have to hook up the laptop to make the autotune optimizations permanent. You can also run the Hydra in autotune all the time if you like.
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Old 12-19-2004, 07:28 PM   #10
jlee8196
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Is it better to run autotune all the time?.
Also everytime I start the car it takes quite a few extra cranks to get the engine
to run. Anyone else experincing that? anyway to fix this problem?.
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:16 PM   #11
bboy
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No it's not better or worse to run autotune all the time. The ECU will adapt to fuel changes no matter if the autotune on or not. Just cause you can doesn't me should.

The extra cranking is a well discussed difference from the stock ECU. The stock fires in batch (all at once) when starting, the Hydra keeps the 4 stroke alternation. It takes a couple more revolutions to start, but no harm. Phil is looking into switching to batch starting, but it's just so low priority with all the things that can be done. I believe Phil will sent out updates to the basic functions over time.
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Old 12-20-2004, 02:53 AM   #12
squirrelmasta
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How are the hydra's working out for the RS-T people around? Also, does the hydra allow different map switches like the Utec? can you use cruise with it now. and does it have launch control? Sure more to come. Thanks much.
-Eli
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:15 AM   #13
jlee8196
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Thanks for the tips bboy. As long as it's ok for the extra crank then i'm cool with it..
So far the hydra works great.. only little change that were made, mostly settings.
I got to say Phil give me a great map to start off. Can't image me doing this with
a standalone ecu with basic maps.
Props for Phil
How do I tune the boost target map and the boost control solenoid map to get the PSI I wanted. Cuz the taget boost map setting is 18.3psi, which I think is little too hight for my car.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:16 AM   #14
CK02WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee8196
Is it better to run autotune all the time?.
Also everytime I start the car it takes quite a few extra cranks to get the engine
to run. Anyone else experincing that? anyway to fix this problem?.
From what I understand, if you run it all the time it will only store so much info due to the limitations of the Hydra's on board memory. I use it only when tuning. I'll make a buch of "pulls" then download, upload, and reset to save the changes. If you haven't already, read the tuning info on www.elementtuning.com and you get the basics of the autotune feature. I sometimes set the auto tune for a narrow section in the RPM range so I can tune a certian RPM area for different load sites. Tune your idle manually as the auto tune can induce a "hunting" idle.

Hint for those using decel fuel cut
If you are using the decel fuel cut, turn it off when using autotune or it will make large spikes in your fuel map. The auto tune notices that no fuel is being injected when its reference map (AFR Target map) says there should be x amount of fuel. So it will continue to add fuel to hit its target with no avil.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:20 AM   #15
CK02WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrelmasta
How are the hydra's working out for the RS-T people around? Also, does the hydra allow different map switches like the Utec? can you use cruise with it now. and does it have launch control? Sure more to come. Thanks much.
-Eli
The Hydra has an AUX Fuel and Spark map that can be used for race fuel, water injection ect. The cruise is only an issue for the STI with the DBW throttle body and I believe the answer is still no. It does have a programible launch control.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:35 AM   #16
jlee8196
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I have problem with logging, it wont let me save or export to excell.
Also, when I hook up hydra to my laptop it says hardware version not matching.
Anyone have that problem.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:28 AM   #17
Element Tuning
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That's most likely my fault as I included an older version of the software as no disc was sent by Hydra. Since you have the latest and greatest computer there is a newer software version that I need to send you. I got stuck in California due to bad weather on the East Coast so I won't be able to get this to you for a couple of days.

As for the starting, yes it takes about 3 seconds to start your car which is normal due to this design.

Tuning your boost curve is explained in our Tuning Guides which can be found on the technical page of www.elementtuning.com. If you still have questions after you read this go ahead and give me a call and I'll walk you through it.

Thanks to those who jumped in to help you while I wasn't available!
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:35 PM   #18
jlee8196
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Thanks phil.
Other than I can't save log. I'm still able to mod the files, which is good.
Tuning the boost is tricky, or I dont know what to do.
I want to start with low boost target and work my way up.
However when I set the boost target map 10psi accross the whole RPM rage,
Boost don't stop there, I'll get overboost and run into fuel cut like 14psi.
So if my boost aren't in sync with boost target map do I start tuning the
PWM 4 solenoid map. than PIDs.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:22 PM   #19
jlee8196
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What's decel fuel cut?
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:21 PM   #20
CK02WRX
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Decel fuel cut cuts fuel on decelaration.
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Old 12-22-2004, 02:55 AM   #21
jlee8196
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how do you disable/enable decel fuel cut?
Can the hydra turn off TGV error code or eliminate it.?
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:27 AM   #22
CK02WRX
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8cmFP Red, RA 5spd, Hydra

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Decel fuel cut is under select-> settings-> setup. It is suppose to combat back firing on decel but sometimes makes it worse. I plan on switching it off and retuning the decel portion fo the fuel map. There won't be an error code since the stock ecu will no longer be needed. I don't think the hydra controls the TGV's so they are left in the open position.

Last edited by CK02WRX; 12-22-2004 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 12-22-2004, 04:20 PM   #23
jlee8196
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the user intruction didn't say anything about decel fuel cut and not on element site either. The preset map phil give me didn't enable it also. My car seems to be fine without it.. Why would one use it?
I have open air BOV. anything different need to be adjusted than non-open air bov?
thanks for the help CK02wrx.
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Old 12-22-2004, 06:44 PM   #24
Element Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee8196
Thanks phil.
Other than I can't save log. I'm still able to mod the files, which is good.
Tuning the boost is tricky, or I dont know what to do.
I want to start with low boost target and work my way up.
However when I set the boost target map 10psi accross the whole RPM rage,
Boost don't stop there, I'll get overboost and run into fuel cut like 14psi.
So if my boost aren't in sync with boost target map do I start tuning the
PWM 4 solenoid map. than PIDs.
You also need to adjust PWM Map 4 as this controls the duty cycle of the solenoid when it's running at X duty % to reach the value in your "Boost Target" map. To make it simple to understand, just lower the values starting at 100% down to 50% uniformly by increments of 10 until you close in on your target.

If you are not experiencing any boost spikes or oscillation you should leave the PID settings to the Element default. Keep in mind you may not be able to run lower than 15 psi with your combination due to wastegate limitations.

As for the deceleration fuel cut, I prefer instead to tune the deceleration area of the fuel map. I think at this point that may be a little beyond your current knowledge but your doing fine so just take it one step at a time.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:37 PM   #25
jlee8196
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I starting to understand how to target boost now.
Did some adjusting and turning out well.
Still will over shot the boost sometime, i'm guess I need to adjust the Intergral.
Also, I have not experience any knock yet. Which is good, or the knock map need adjustment?.. I shouldn't have to adjust any of the coolent, knock, or air compensation map right?
We have 92oct gas here. any change on the spark map need to be made?
I remember experiencing some knock(little ones) when i was using the Utec under hard acceleration sometimes...
Also, Phil will you provide a link where I can download the new software version.
Or you will mail it?
thanks for the help Phil.

Last edited by jlee8196; 12-23-2004 at 02:01 PM.
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