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Old 12-21-2004, 10:58 AM   #1
Matrix 1193
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Location: Westlake Village, CA
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2006 WRX STI
Pearl White

Default Cold weather starting car with hydra

So since its gotten real cold, for people in the north east, i have had some new issues. My 02 with hydra just will not turn over. All the cranking enrichments were set properly, or as proper as i can figure, anything more and the thing just back fires, After installing the car it always took a little more time to turn over, but now it just doesnt. I turn the key and it trys to turn over and gives out a few attempts but doesn't sustain.

Steps taken

1. Adjusting cranking enrichment just causes back fire

2. Going to put the stock ECU back in

I still have the stock ignition system, i had some concerned that my plugs had gotten moderately fouled do to running rich for a while but don't know what else to do. I would like to avoid step three cause, i am sick of carrying my Laptop and ECU. I will probably just replace it to see if its mechanical or computer today. But just curious of other people have had this issue now that its really friggin cold.
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Last edited by Matrix 1193; 12-21-2004 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:47 AM   #2
jaxscuby
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just get a ecutek reflash..

there are others on the board..
they have similar problem..a few said
the fuel pressure needs to be recalibrated...
but if you did not release the fuel pressure..
ie disconnect the battery for any extended period of time
the fuel pressure should not have gone down..

but they said it took 5~6 time before their cars started..

the search is a very nice tools...also check the threads
from the previous few days/weeks can also be informative..

its a public forum..i don't care who's ignore list i'm on..

my 2 cents..

Last edited by jaxscuby; 12-21-2004 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 12-21-2004, 11:49 AM   #3
offset
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby
just get a ecutek reflash..
Another user added to my ignore list.

offset
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:02 PM   #4
Matrix 1193
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Well I jumped the car, without much problem. Here is a little more info for people. I am running two big amps, i obviously shut them off when I start my car but the thing i noticed about the hydra even in the warm weather, when i go to start it, it doesn't sound very alive, it kinda rumbles a bit at low rpm like 1200 and then jumps to whatever it is for the isc in a second or two.

I am curious if the hydra plus WBO2 pull more current than the stock ecu or manages the current demands differently. I noticed this difference because i was going back and forth puting the stock ecu and hydra in. I was explained about the sequential firing and was told that it would take a few more seconds to turn over compared to the ECU, but it almost sounds like there isn't enough juice to get her going.... and my voltage seems low, like 10 voltz, i got a volt meter with my audio set up.

I know how to search and i thought i read every HYDRA post i could find and never remeber anything like this. Phil has posted on the subject but with regards to the fuel enrichments for air and coolant temp, but thats not my problem, if add to those maps the car just back fires horribly and still doesnt turn over.

Phils post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...+weather+HYDRA

any thoughts?

I mean, I could be drawing more than the alternator can handle, and the battery is 2 years old?
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:29 PM   #5
offset
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Sounds very well like it could be due to your audio problem. Maybe try posting in the electrical or car audio forums about general starting problems; of course after searching through them as well. What kind of amps are they? Maybe your battery or alt is getting worn out from the audio system and is needing to be replaced?

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Old 12-21-2004, 02:35 PM   #6
Element Tuning
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I do have many new setting for cold weaher starting that I have not emailed out yet but I have tested so far down to -3C without issue.

I think your problem is battery voltage as 10V is extremely low. Usually I see a minum of 13.5V on start up but we can change the dwell setting which should help (I've updated these also but mostly for the STI applications).

I have found that increasing the crancking enrichment more than is already is doesn't help much. Increasing the start primer and altering the PID control for the ISC makes a huge difference (I have new settings for these also).

At 10V you may not be cranking fast enough to get the crank signals to sync properly. Just as a note I have tested with a with the light on, 400w amp, and the fans and it still fires up.

Thanks,
phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 12-21-2004, 02:36 PM   #7
bboy
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Just talked to Phil he has made changes the fuel enrichments and mentioned something about low volteage. He's flying back to DC now, but you could try him tomorrow.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:44 PM   #8
Performance Driven
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if you still have stock battery, it might be time replace it.
the cold weather can kill a battery if it is low or should i say
not hold a full charge. any way you can put a in line switch
between the amps and battery that you could turn on/off?

you could be drawing too much from the battery. But if you
have only 10 volts..I would have the alternator also checked.

good luck...keep us informed..
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Old 12-24-2004, 11:28 PM   #9
Matrix 1193
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2006 WRX STI
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning
I do have many new setting for cold weaher starting that I have not emailed out yet but I have tested so far down to -3C without issue.

I think your problem is battery voltage as 10V is extremely low. Usually I see a minum of 13.5V on start up but we can change the dwell setting which should help (I've updated these also but mostly for the STI applications).

I have found that increasing the crancking enrichment more than is already is doesn't help much. Increasing the start primer and altering the PID control for the ISC makes a huge difference (I have new settings for these also).

At 10V you may not be cranking fast enough to get the crank signals to sync properly. Just as a note I have tested with a with the light on, 400w amp, and the fans and it still fires up.

Thanks,
phil
www.elementtuning.com

Now how does the ISC changes work in different weather conditions. My case maybe very specific living in the northeast but it was 0 degrees wednesday and 60 thursday, and I am not joking in the least bit. Are the PID changes something that I am going to need to do when it just gets cold or are they stable as the temp changes. If you got all this figured out and have had to tell like a thousand people i will just wait for your email on the changes : ) save you some typing. Another OT question for you Phil is that my startup RPM is never the same and I am curious if a 200-300 differenece in rpm matter? for example, sometimes I start the car and it shoots to 2300 most of the time its around 1800 but it wanders. any thoughts?
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:29 PM   #10
wgknestrick
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I've found you really don't need the RPMs to shoot up that high at start up. (so decrease the integral gain). Mine only shoots up to about 1400, then fall slowly, only undershooting the target idle RPM 1 time as it falls back down. If the idle is wandering, try increasing the differential gain. This effectively increases the "dampening" in the control system, lessoning oscillation.

It does take some time to find the "best" settings that behave appropriately for all weather and coolant temperature conditions.
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