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Old 12-23-2004, 04:36 PM   #1
PERRINJeff
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Default Official PERRIN BOV Thread

Official PERRIN BOV Q&A

We are starting this thread to help educate the NASIOC public about our BOV, what it does and also to get some opinions on how we can make it more attractive. We understand there are many BOV's out there and they all perform a similar task , but each does it differently. Ours does the best job of holding boost and doing so more efficiently.


Our BOV has been on the market for roughly 6 months. We are in the process of making some cosmetic changes to the next batch and felt this would be a great opportunity to try and incorporate additional changes to make the BOV more appealing to the NASIOC members. This is a great opportunity for YOU to directly contribute to the, style, design, features and operation of a PERRIN Product. The information that comes from this thread will be used to create a BOV that satisfies everyone's desires. We hope that many of you will take some time to both consider and respond to the questions below. Thank you in advance for your candid replies. They are appreciated. (NOTE: You can either respond here in this thread or send an e-mail to me JEFF@PERRINPERFORMANCE.COM)


Questions that we would want to ask NASIOC are:

1) How important is vent to atmosphere? (Also, if so how loud does it ideally need to be?)
2) Is styling a major factor in BOV selection?
3) What is the ideal price point for a BOV that includes YOUR most desired features?
4) Is drivability a major concern? If so are you will to sacrifice some of that for additional noise and VTA?
5) Durability?
6) Cleaning and maintenance?
7) These are just a few highlighted points. Feel free to pose other questions to us and/or give additional feedback!

PERRIN PERFORMANCE
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:43 PM   #2
bboy
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I'm sniffing around for a replacement for the stock STI valve that will hold more boost (at this point the amount of boost the stock valve can hold is disputable). I have no interest in "noise". I want something that basically replicates the stock function but allows more boost. I want low maintainance, don't care about looks to much, and it can't cost an arm and a leg.
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Old 12-23-2004, 04:51 PM   #3
Tobey
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i have seen, used and heard several BOV's and it seems the worx is my favorite by far. i'm not sure how much pressure it will hold, but that is always the top concern around here. adjustable venting is a good feature and looks are always good.

i paid $230 for my worx valve, brand new and it took me a LONG time to finally spend that money. i think if you offer a quality valve that looks nice, holds 25psi and has adjustable venting, you would sell them all day long at $199 shipped.

i think loudness is the lowest thing on the priority list.
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Old 12-23-2004, 05:06 PM   #4
02WRX_BLUE
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Questions that we would want to ask NASIOC are:

1) How important is vent to atmosphere? (Also, if so how loud does it ideally need to be?)

-- High pitch like HKS is my preference. (Sharp and short sound! Pushsh)

2) Is styling a major factor in BOV selection?

-- Why not. If it matchs the STI intake manifold it is even better (RED!)

3) What is the ideal price point for a BOV that includes YOUR most desired features?
-- Between $200 - $250

4) Is drivability a major concern? If so are you will to sacrifice some of that for additional noise and VTA?

-- Yes : Minimum sacrifice as it can be

5) Durability?

-- Of course, it should last a long time.

6) Cleaning and maintenance?

-- Every 15000 miles would be acceptable

7) These are just a few highlighted points. Feel free to pose other questions to us and/or give additional feedback!

-- Adjustability of the spring tension would be good. I prefer an option to range from stock like setting to 50% stiffer settings.

-- Also, I would like RECIRCULATE option to be there ranging from 0 to 100%.
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Old 12-23-2004, 05:09 PM   #5
DISCOPOPE
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points:
1) vta, sounds nice. IMO 79% of after market bov purchases will be for the noise alone.
2) styling, very important. look at howmany wrinkle red bov's worx sold.
3) ideal price point? less than $200
4) for me yes. for others, evedently not. there are tons of people putting up with ****ty performance in order to get the psssssst.
5) yes
6) it has to be user serviceable, and take less than 20 min to totally disassemble/assemble.

fwiw, i went back to my stock bpv.
it's just one less thing to wory about, and the stock unit will hold more boost than i will ever run.
7) These are just a few highlighted points. Feel free to pose other questions to us and/or give additional feedback!
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:33 PM   #6
PERRINJeff
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bboy,
Basically that is what our BOV is, recirculating, holds more boost, and low or no maintinence. Why don't you own one?

Tobey,
I am glad you are happy with your WORX BOV, but it seems as though you didn't know we made a BOV at the time of purchase. Basically you like ours except it needs to be $200. OK, got it.

So far sound doesn't matter, interesting.

PERRIN Performance
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:41 PM   #7
blinguskahn
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Jeff, make it look like a WORX and powder coat them like the color of the STi intake manifold.
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:43 PM   #8
PERRINJeff
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02WRX_BLUE
Sound is important, to us also. Even though ours recirculates you can hear it from the intake. But the question is, "is it enough".

STI color, not bad!

Our price isn't too far off, and that is something we are working on.

Drivablilty is something we worry about when making a VTA BOV. There are some problems with part throttle high load situations that cause the BOV to vent which in turns causes some bucking of the car. We didn't really want to have these problems with our BOV.

Right now our BOV does have adjustable spring tension, but the way ours works, you don't need more spring tension to hold more boost.

Discoscope,
So we are back to noise as being important, but not so important that you would be willing to sacrifice it for durability.

Our BOV uses o-rings for seals and it very easy to take apart and service. We don't rely on a tight tolerance fit for a seal. These eventually get dirty, and cause the BOV not to function.

Very interstesting...

PERRIN Performance
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:53 PM   #9
PERRINJeff
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blinguskahn,
We aren't going to make it look like a WORX since that is a design they came up with, but if you are saying you like the way it looks, that is good criticism.

For those who haven't seen our BOV or know the features, here you go:
http://www.perrinperformance.com/Pro..._Off_Valve.htm

PERRIN performance
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:56 PM   #10
WinglessSTi
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i tried the stealth fx even at 30% vent it didnt run good....after fires..hesitation on shifts


the best bov would be one like stock but looks better..lol
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Old 12-23-2004, 08:29 PM   #11
ami2fst4u
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1) How important is vent to atmosphere? (Also, if so how loud does it ideally need to be?)

Personally for me the VTA doesn't matter, that is one of the major reasons why I choose the Perrin piece to run on my STi over others (full recirc.). Not to mention for the most part it seems Subaru's don't like VTA BOV's all that much. I rather have a product that can actually serve a purpose to hold boost that is, rather than just be a noise maker.

2) Is styling a major factor in BOV selection?

This again is personal preference, I for one like the simplistic look of the Perrin piece, (i.e. compared to the bullet styled HKS SSQ). One thing I would change however is the finish, I would of liked to see the BOV be polished rather than the raw uncoated look it currently has. Mainly to match the finish of the Perrin FMIC which I also run on my STi.

3) What is the ideal price point for a BOV that includes YOUR most desired features?

Again I believe you, Perrin, have marketed this at the ideal price point. As it fails into or below what others cost (i.e. Worx = $250 & HKS SSQ = $270)

4) Is drivability a major concern? If so are you will to sacrifice some of that for additional noise and VTA?

Drivabilty is a MAJOR concern for me, as I want power delivery to be as smooth as possible (no bucking). I feel as though between my Perrin SRI and BOV there is more then enough pushsh/turbo noise. If you want something louder without sounding like a ricer get a full exhaust and/or an ext. wategate setup with dump to atmo. (both of which I have )

5) Durability?

Of course the BOV should be durable, however you, Perrin, have already fulfilled this characteristic. From a design standpoint it is a very well engineered product, and one would expect that for $225.

6) Cleaning and maintenance?

Both seem to be covered in the current version, as it seems maintenance free. I have already taken the BOV apart just to see the mechanical guts (Mech. Designer by trade so I had to ), the internal design is also very user friendly.

7) These are just a few highlighted points. Feel free to pose other questions to us and/or give additional feedback!

Polish the external housing to match the Perrin FMIC... . Other than that I am a very satisfied user (4 months) and is holding boost fine (350whp on a Dyno Dynamics dyno @ 22-23psi on 93oct.), all day long with no problems/worries.

Thanks for producing a kickass product!!

Rick
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:12 PM   #12
PERRINJeff
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WinglessSTI,
Until we came out with our BOV, we always said stock is best because at the time there wasn't anything else that was 100% recirc. Long ago, when we were selling parts retail, we had lots of experience with other BOV's and they had similar problems like you mentioned.

ami2fst4u,
Another recirc fan!
Polished finsh is easy for us to do, just no one has ever asked.
This surely could be a new color for the newer version.
We are very glad you are happy with it, but you need to break that 400WHP barrier!

PERRIN performance
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:32 PM   #13
Rallycarperson
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IMO, take note of the Worx line. They have a variety of colors, finishes, and recirculating/ atmo/ and adjustable BOV's. Thats why they are so popular.

Unfortionatly, people now are buying BOVs just for some added noise.
You rarely see people using them to hold more boost...etc.

Id like to see and adjustable(0-100% rec) BOV, with better looks like more polished, and with a unique sound. Most BOV are just Pfffff, I never heard a BOV with a flutter sound like most rally cars have. Most likley an external wastegate though.
Or, it would be nice to produce a BOV similar to stock- looks sleeper, sounds sleeper, but holds more boost.

Wow, just got out the ricer in me.


-Mark
MAPmotors.com
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Old 12-23-2004, 09:41 PM   #14
blinguskahn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff
blinguskahn,
We aren't going to make it look like a WORX since that is a design they came up with, but if you are saying you like the way it looks, that is good criticism.

For those who haven't seen our BOV or know the features, here you go:
http://www.perrinperformance.com/Pro..._Off_Valve.htm

PERRIN performance
Yeah the WORX looks nice but I mean the crinkle red coating like the manifold... that looks so nice.
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:03 PM   #15
AaronWRX
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I think if you took the APS BOV and made it way easier to clean / change washers you would have a winnet...... that way people can be full bypass,,, of VTA... or a combo of both.

I love my APS.. i just hate the fact that i have to remove the entire thing just to clean it or make simple adjustments.
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Old 12-27-2004, 01:07 PM   #16
PERRINJeff
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rallycarperson,
Most people are in your same opinion ,abouth rally cars making that chatter sound, that it is the BOV. Actually it is the lack of the BOV. Most of the big rally cars don't run BOV at all, since they are on the gas most all the time, and don't lift between shifts, there is no need for one. That chatter noise is compressor surge, from the boost pressure not being relieved. With our BOv its really easy to replicate that sound, just screw the top down until it stops (screwing the cap down adjusts flow and spring tension). I wouldn't recommend this at all because it destroys turbos.
But you were mentioning something that is stock-like, but holds more boost........well that is ours!

blinguskahn,
Another vote for the krinkle red. We are starting to get the hint!

AaronWRX,
I have been hearing the "make it a 0-100% recirc adjustable" thing a bunch, and my question to you is, have you ever adjusted yours to VTA from recirc?

PERRIN Performance
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:47 PM   #17
Leonardo
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Jeff:

Wanna send a BOV for me to test down here?
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Old 12-27-2004, 05:46 PM   #18
DISCOPOPE
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when i had my worx installed i ran with is on 75% rec.
imo that was enough sound to use as driver/car feedback.
when i installed my cai, i clicked it over to 100% recirc...
i swapped back to the stocker because:
#1 i had that feed back at full recirculate.
#2 i was getting some odd low boost fluttering that was driving me nuts... after adjusting the spring about 3 times, (15 min job each time) i gave up and put the stocker back on.

i'd be willing to try your bov out given:
#1 it was polished, or wrinkle red.
#2 someone gave me $100 for my worx.
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:01 PM   #19
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to perrin: this bov looks like it's designed almost exactly like the HKS bov. Is this accurate? If so, i love that design. You don't have to worry about having rediculously strong springs in it to hold boost because that boost pressure is what is keeping it shut.

if that's the deal, i say good job perrin now blow that baby out for about 200 bucks (undercut a lot of the japanese ones) and you'll probably pick up a lot of customers.
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:09 PM   #20
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DISCOPOPE,
So polished and red, will make you buy ours, and VTA isn't a big deal, ok. The good thing with ours is the fluttering isn't a problem and to adjust spring pressure is seconds.

jsmonet,
Yes it is similar to the HKS unit, but different also. Ours doens't VTA, where as theirs does. Their part also have many other moving parts to it and also have wierd, expensive flanges to adapt it to the car. Also the way HKS gets around making theirs to work as a VTA, is they have a bleed system in it that allows the BOV to close with high vacuum for idle and cruise conditions. That is great for making the WRX idle, but it also allows boost to leak throught the valve. We have a few cars that we tested our early prototypes on, that had HKS's on (these were tuned cars) and they noticed a little more boost and their AFRs' got leaner when they installed ours. The leaner AFR's indicate the the HKS was leaking! And of course the slight change in boost was noticed, but not enought to care about since the electronic boost controllers made up for it.

And you are saying make it around $200. Well it it very close at the $224 on our site. Maybe with better finishes we got you sold!

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Old 12-27-2004, 09:54 PM   #21
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I would really rather run stock but Im running a front mount with my GT30R right now and need to run one that hooks to a hose so Im using an APS but REALLY dont like it. I got it because it was supposedly adjustable but if you try to adjust it so its recirc it leaks all over the place, so Im trying to run it atmo but its half fluttering and half surging, so off its coming.

Anyhow, yours looks great, can it be 100% recirc? and does it have a fitting to hook up to a hose or is it just a flange to bolt on like stock? If yes to both I'll buy one RIGHT NOW!!
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:55 PM   #22
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Not trying to rag here, but no vendor account????

-Tom
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Old 12-27-2004, 10:16 PM   #23
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dude are you serious?
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Old 12-27-2004, 10:37 PM   #24
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How about making it in a gold finish? Not shiny gold but a flat gold.

Got any sound clips? I really like the design, and am really considering buying one. I have never been much of a fan of aftermarket BOV's but yours is a very nice peice!!

-Matt
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Old 12-27-2004, 10:37 PM   #25
mnavarro
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A little out of the box, I personally don't care about sound, but how having a way to customize the sound by adding/subtracting something incrementally to alter the sound or putting over special caps over the vent that change the sound. If it's going to be rice why not go all the way!
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