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Old 12-23-2004, 07:56 PM   #1
jefersun
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37716
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX (sugarland, TX)
Vehicle:
2002 ej257 Black WRX

Default 43 counts of knock @ only 16.6 psi, what could be possibly wrong?

Mods:

vf22
modded injectors
Walbro
Utec w/ Tuna
TBE
Gt Spec header + 3 bolt uppipe (no boost leak, just fixed that )
K&n filter (if that even counts)

Other things to note:

Stock TMIC
NGK Platinums (1 step colder)

Temperature was around 38 degrees. It hasn't been this cold in the day in houston in probably well over a year. I did some tuning the other day, on a normal houston winter day (around high 50s around evening time)... Here is the log (note, boost was turned down a bit)

3rd gear/low 50F log:
PHP Code:
3083  +3.1 3.0  96  20    00   W/B  +32.5   15.9 +21.0  -1.5 310.00 2.5  13.28
 3147  
+3.5 3.1  96  20    00   W/B  +32.5   17.0 +21.0  -1.5 310.00 2.6  13.06
 3177  
+3.9 3.1  96  30    00   W/B  +32.3   17.5 +20.0  -1.5 310.00 2.6  12.83
 3290  
+4.5 3.1  96  30    00   W/B  +32.2   18.9 +20.0  -1.5 310.00 2.6  12.56
 3360  
+4.9 3.1  96  30    00   W/B  +31.9   20.0 +20.0  -1.5 310.00 2.7  12.27
 3432  
+5.5 3.2  96  30    00   W/B  +31.7   21.9 +20.0  -1.5 310.00 2.7  12.11
 3479  
+6.2 3.3  96  40    00   W/B  +31.5   23.5 +19.0  -0.7 310.00 2.7  11.98
 3580  
+6.8 3.4  96  40    00   W/B  +31.3   24.6 +19.0  -0.7 310.00 2.8  11.87
 3671  
+7.4 3.4  96  40    00   W/B  +31.4   27.0 +19.0  -0.8 310.00 2.9  11.67
 3745  
+8.2 3.5  95  50    00   W/B  +31.3   30.5 +17.1  -2.2 310.00 2.9  11.37
 3779  
+9.2 3.5  95  50    00   W/B  +30.7   32.6 +17.2  -0.9 310.00 3.0  11.18
 3926 
+10.2 3.7  95  60    00   W/B  +31.0   32.7 +16.6  -3.0 310.00 3.0  10.86
 3996 
+11.5 3.8  96  60    00   W/B  +30.4   36.1 +17.0  -3.1 270.00 3.1  10.86
 4130 
+12.9 3.8  96  70    00   W/B  +29.5   37.6 +15.0  -3.4 270.00 3.1  10.93
 4214 
+14.1 3.9  95  80    00   W/B  +25.9   40.2 +16.0  -2.8 270.00 3.2  10.83
 4317 
+15.3 3.8  95  80    00   W/B  +24.7   40.2 +16.0  -2.9 270.00 3.2  10.93
 4480 
+16.1 3.9  95  80    00   W/B  +23.0   41.7 +16.0  -2.8 270.00 3.2  10.96
 4547 
+15.9 4.0  98  80    00   W/B  +16.1   45.5 +16.0  -2.1 270.00 3.3  11.05
 4688 
+15.9 4.0  95  70    00   W/B  +23.7   42.5 +16.0  -4.0 270.00 3.2  10.89
 4796 
+16.1 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +16.2   49.7 +16.0  -1.5 270.00 3.4  10.96
 4796 
+15.7 4.1  96  80    00   W/B  +15.9   50.1 +16.0  -2.8 270.00 3.4  10.78
 5005 
+16.1 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +24.8   50.3 +16.0  -4.1 270.00 3.3  10.33
 5120 
+15.9 4.1  96  80    00   W/B  +18.5   47.8 +16.2  -5.3 270.00 3.3  10.42
 5208 
+16.4 4.2  96  80    00   W/B  +18.8   53.0 +16.7  -4.1 270.00 3.4  10.62
 5265 
+16.6 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +20.4   51.5 +17.0  -5.3 270.00 3.3  10.59
 5376 
+16.6 4.3  96  80    00   W/B  +20.3   53.1 +17.0  -4.6 270.00 3.3  10.53
 5428 
+16.8 4.3  95  80    00   W/B  +20.2   55.2 +17.0  -4.9 270.00 3.4  10.56
 5509 
+16.1 4.2  96  80    00   W/B  +21.1   52.5 +17.0  -5.5 270.00 3.4  10.65
 5621 
+15.9 4.3  96  80    00   W/B  +21.8   52.9 +17.5  -5.9 270.00 3.3  10.87
 5767 
+16.1 4.3  95  80    00   W/B  +30.8   52.6 +18.0  -6.0 310.00 3.4  11.05
 5847 
+16.1 4.3  96  80    00   W/B  +31.2   58.6 +18.0  -5.1 310.00 3.4  11.05
 5963 
+16.1 4.3  96  80    00   W/B  +30.9   58.9 +18.0  -4.0 330.00 3.5  11.02
 5931 
+15.7 4.4  96  70    00   W/B  +33.1   55.7 +19.0  -6.0 330.00 3.4  11.02
 6138 
+15.3 4.4  95  70    00   W/B  +33.5   57.5 +19.0  -6.0 330.00 3.5  11.18
 6218 
+15.3 4.4  96  80    00   W/B  +33.7   60.6 +18.7  -3.8 330.00 3.5  11.37
 6325 
+15.3 4.4  96  80    00   W/B  +35.8   61.4 +19.0  -4.0 330.00 3.5  11.14
 6325 
+15.7 4.4  95  80    00   W/B  +36.3   61.5 +19.0  -4.0 330.00 3.5  10.86
 6510 
+15.7 4.4  95  80    00   W/B  +37.0   62.3 +19.0  -3.7 330.00 3.5  10.74
 6587 
+15.9 4.4  95  80    00   W/B  +37.8   62.0 +19.0  -3.7 330.00 3.5  10.73
 6653 
+15.3 4.4  95  70    00   W/B  +39.2   60.1 +19.3  -5.2 330.00 3.5  10.73
 6761 
+14.9 4.4  95  70    00   W/B  +39.2   59.2 +19.7  -5.2 330.00 3.5  10.96
 6720 
+15.1 4.4  95  70    00   W/B  +39.4   58.2 +20.1  -4.9 330.00 3.5  11.18
 6830 
+15.1 4.4  65  80    00   W/B  +40.1   24.6 +19.0  -2.9 335.00 2.3  11.23
 7002  
+9.4 1.9   0  00    00   W/B  +10.3    7.2 +24.0  -0.9 ECU.   1.6  11.52 
Then it got cold. Turn down the ABC one full turn so i don't have to mess with the boost map (i was knocking again) and removed 2 degrees of timing from the ENTIRE timing map. Richened up 4000 rpm area as well.... This was the result.

3rd gear/38F:

PHP Code:
2911  +2.3 2.8 100  20    00   W/B  +33.0   13.5 +19.0  -1.5 360.00 2.4  13.23
 2970  
+2.7 2.9 101  20    00   W/B  +32.8   13.9 +19.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.81
 3030  
+2.9 3.0 101  20    00   W/B  +32.9   14.4 +19.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.72
 3112  
+3.1 3.0 101  20    00   W/B  +32.5   15.2 +19.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.59
 3180  
+3.5 3.1 101  20    00   W/B  +32.6   16.1 +19.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.45
 3205  
+3.9 3.1 101  30    00   W/B  +32.5   17.0 +18.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.23
 3280  
+4.3 3.1 100  30    00   W/B  +32.5   18.0 +18.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.99
 3346  
+4.9 3.1 100  30    00   W/B  +32.4   18.8 +18.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.67
 3422  
+5.5 3.2 100  30    00   W/B  +32.6   20.3 +18.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.42
 3483  
+6.2 3.3 100  40    00   W/B  +31.2   21.0 +17.0  -0.8 360.00 2.7  12.27
 3584  
+6.6 3.3 100  40    00   W/B  +28.9   22.8 +17.0  -0.7 360.00 2.8  12.17
 3658  
+7.2 3.4 100  40    00   W/B  +26.7   25.9 +17.0  -0.8 360.00 2.9  12.00
 3749  
+7.8 3.5 100  50    00   W/B  +24.9   27.9 +15.0  -0.2 360.00 2.9  11.76
 3800  
+8.8 3.6 100  50    00   W/B  +23.5   31.2 +15.4  -0.7 360.00 2.9  11.45
 3880 
+10.0 3.5  99  60    00   W/B  +22.8   31.2 +14.5  -2.6 310.00 3.0  11.01
 3992 
+11.5 3.6  99  60    00   W/B  +23.6   35.7 +15.0  -3.4 270.00 2.9  10.87
 4115 
+12.7 3.8 100  70    00   W/B  +21.6   36.9 +13.0  -2.8 320.00 3.1  10.99
 4187 
+14.1 3.8 100  70    02   W/B  +20.3   39.3 +13.0  -3.1 320.00 3.1  10.87
 4262 
+14.9 3.9  99  80    00   W/B  +19.6   40.7 +12.0  -2.9 270.00 3.2  10.81
 4438 
+15.9 4.0 100  80    00   W/B  +18.5   41.6 +12.0  -2.7 320.00 3.2  10.86
 4486 
+16.6 4.0 100  80    43   W/B  +12.1   44.2  +4.0  -2.3 320.00 3.3  10.90
 4541 
+16.6 4.1  77  80    00   W/B  +10.5   21.0  +4.0  -1.5 309.50 2.1  11.01
 4894 
+11.7 2.0   0  00    00   W/B  +11.1   42.2 ECU.   +2.1 ECU.   1.7  11.05
 4578  
+4.7 2.1   0  00    00   W/B  +11.1   42.2 ECU.   +3.0 ECU.   1.8  12.34 
PHP Code:
4486 +16.6 4.0 100  80    43   W/B  +12.1   44.2  +4.0  -2.3 320.00 3.3  10.90 
That I do not understand. I'm running pretty low timing, not a lot of boost by any standards, and the afr is relatively rich.

Anyone have any suggestions/ideas, i'm completely dumbfounded..
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Last edited by jefersun; 12-26-2004 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:57 PM   #2
jefersun
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Member#: 37716
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Location: Houston, TX (sugarland, TX)
Vehicle:
2002 ej257 Black WRX

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Heres another run from that 38F evening.... look how low the boost is and still 17 counts!

PHP Code:
2984  +2.5 2.8  96  20    00   W/B  +33.0   13.5 +19.0  -1.5 310.00 2.4  14.58
 3011  
+2.9 2.9  98  20    00   W/B  +32.8   13.9 +19.0  -1.5 310.00 2.4  14.33
 3049  
+3.1 2.9  97  20    00   W/B  +32.5   14.6 +19.0  -1.5 310.00 2.5  14.08
 3141  
+3.5 3.0  98  20    00   W/B  +32.5   15.5 +19.0  -1.5 310.00 2.5  13.84
 3177  
+3.9 3.1  97  30    00   W/B  +32.3   16.6 +18.0  -1.5 310.00 2.5  13.62
 3211  
+4.3 3.1  98  30    00   W/B  +32.2   17.0 +18.0  -1.5 310.00 2.5  13.39
 3303  
+4.7 3.1  97  30    00   W/B  +32.1   18.0 +18.0  -1.5 310.00 2.6  13.23
 3343  
+5.1 3.2  97  30    00   W/B  +32.0   19.6 +18.0  -1.5 310.00 2.6  12.99
 3457  
+5.7 3.2  98  30    00   W/B  +31.7   20.2 +18.0  -1.5 310.00 2.7  12.67
 3523  
+6.4 3.2  98  40    00   W/B  +29.7   22.9 +17.0  -0.7 310.00 2.7  12.42
 3639  
+6.8 3.4  98  40    00   W/B  +28.6   25.9 +17.0  -0.7 310.00 2.9  12.18
 3654  
+7.4 3.5  98  40    00   W/B  +26.7   25.9 +17.0  -0.8 310.00 2.9  11.98
 3762  
+8.4 3.5  98  50    00   W/B  +26.4   29.3 +15.0  -2.2 310.00 2.9  11.73
 3813  
+9.4 3.6  98  50    00   W/B  +25.2   30.7 +15.4  -0.9 310.00 3.0  11.45
 3916 
+10.4 3.7  98  60    00   W/B  +26.0   31.5 +14.9  -3.0 310.00 3.0  11.11
 3996 
+11.5 3.8  98  60    01   W/B  +24.9   34.1 +15.0  -3.0 270.00 3.1  11.14
 4040 
+12.7 3.8  98  70    17   W/B  +22.4   36.3  +5.0  -3.4 270.00 3.1  11.33
 4125 
+13.5 3.9  98  70    00   W/B  +20.9   37.4  +5.0  -3.4 270.00 3.0  11.20
 4251 
+13.9 3.9  98  70    00   W/B  +20.5   38.2  +5.2  -3.3 270.00 3.1  11.18 
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:05 PM   #3
WRX-Blue-Mica
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Try to richen up .... cause colder weather make the engine run leaner. When I compare your A/F at 50F looks richer than at 38F. Hope this can help
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:19 PM   #4
jefersun
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Well do the logs show any abnoraml afr curves? I mean, what i usually shoot for is an afr that goes down to 10.7 ish and up to around 11.3 ish. 10.7 is pretty conservative i would think, i don't think i'm running too lean.

Anyone else?
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:57 PM   #5
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i believe you were knocking even in your first log. your stock ecu keeps pulling timing around the same point. you might want to check your knock sensitivity settings. they might be too low to pick up the knock.

Code:
4480 +16.1 3.9  95  80    00   W/B  +23.0   41.7 +16.0  -2.8 270.00 3.2  10.96 
4547 +15.9 4.0  98  80    00   W/B  +16.1   45.5 +16.0  -2.1 270.00 3.3  11.05 
4688 +15.9 4.0  95  70    00   W/B  +23.7   42.5 +16.0  -4.0 270.00 3.2  10.89 
4796 +16.1 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +16.2   49.7 +16.0  -1.5 270.00 3.4  10.96 
4796 +15.7 4.1  96  80    00   W/B  +15.9   50.1 +16.0  -2.8 270.00 3.4  10.78 
5005 +16.1 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +24.8   50.3 +16.0  -4.1 270.00 3.3  10.33 
5120 +15.9 4.1  96  80    00   W/B  +18.5   47.8 +16.2  -5.3 270.00 3.3  10.42 
5208 +16.4 4.2  96  80    00   W/B  +18.8   53.0 +16.7  -4.1 270.00 3.4  10.62 
5265 +16.6 4.1  95  80    00   W/B  +20.4   51.5 +17.0  -5.3 270.00 3.3  10.59
you probably want to try lowering the timing during those spool up areas. i get similar knock...when boost builds too fast down low, it knocks. its just a matter of retarding the timing enough to where it doesnt knock anymore. just look up those load sites, and remove maybe 5* and then if you dont knock, then you can start slowing bumping it up to where youre still safe.
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Old 12-24-2004, 07:33 AM   #6
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Old 12-24-2004, 10:40 AM   #7
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You are running very low timing values under boost...and you are slowly pulling timing as the RPMs go up. Why? You might be seing heavy misfires.
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:43 PM   #8
jefersun
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That is very interesting. Sometimes i think i get misfires when i go below say 800 rpms when i'm driving normal from a stop. The CEL just stays yellow for about 5 seconds and then goes off. My injectors are set at 740 cc in the parameters. Should i set them higher and see what happens?

As for dirty injectors, possibly. They do have 48k on them (along with my entire car).

What do you guys think about, say, scaling my injectors to 750 cc? Do you think it would help..?
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Old 12-24-2004, 07:00 PM   #9
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Changing that value of your injector size will just shift your AFRs. If you do not want to change your AFRs there is not reason to do that.
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:52 PM   #10
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At first glance this looks like rich misfire or spark blow out and not actualy Det. Rip those crap o la Denso plugs out and install NGK heat range 7 plugs. Gap to .26 and try again. It really looks like your timing map is way to retarded and that is probably 50% of your problem if not more.

Clark
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Old 12-26-2004, 06:21 PM   #11
jefersun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
At first glance this looks like rich misfire or spark blow out and not actualy Det. Rip those crap o la Denso plugs out and install NGK heat range 7 plugs. Gap to .26 and try again. It really looks like your timing map is way to retarded and that is probably 50% of your problem if not more.

Clark
Yea sorrry, i edited my post, they actually are NGKs i don't know why i said desno's (i still have the spark plug boxes). So you're saying that i pulled so much timing out that i'm actually not knocking anymore, but rather, misfiring because of the low timing? That actually does make sense because i got 11 and then 36 successive counts of knock on one run and then 43 counts when i pulled 2 degrees from the entire map on the NEXT run. I'll do some logs and tuning with a map that i've saved from a while back, i'll post tonight them tonight...

When you tune other people's and your own car, is there some sort of limit too which you don't want to go beyond when dealing with the timing map @ boost pressure higher than 10 psi (say generally like 10 degrees)?
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Old 12-26-2004, 06:53 PM   #12
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Timing @ boost @ RPM all depends on each motor's VE. A different turbo will require a different ignition advance value than another, there is no "max" (espescially when using different fuels). For example: here is a small log section of my low boost/safer daily map for my VF22 - note the timing values (on 93 octane):

Code:
 4089,-12.8,1.7,  2, 00,   00,  24.5,+24.7,   5.6,ECU. , -7.6,ECU.  ,1.9
 4198,-11.6,2.5, 18, 00,   00,  18.4,+42.2,  16.1,ECU. , -7.6,ECU.  ,2.4
 4125, -8.9,2.9, 37, 10,   00,  rich,+38.7,  17.8,+18.3,-11.6,ECU.  ,2.7
 4235, -5.3,3.2, 76, 10,   00,  12.4,+35.3,  24.6,+18.7,-12.3,143.00,2.9
 4224, -0.6,3.5,101, 20,   00,  rich,+32.0,  36.9,+19.0,-12.3,145.00,3.2
 4438, +4.3,3.8,101, 50,   00,  rich,+24.8,  47.5,+19.8,-11.6,145.00,3.4
 4629, +9.4,3.9,101, 70,   00,  rich,+22.2,  48.3,+20.2,-12.4,145.00,3.4
 4708,+13.1,3.8,101, 80,   00,  rich,+23.6,  47.4,+20.8,-12.7,145.00,3.3
 4728,+14.9,3.8,101, 70,   00,  rich,+25.4,  46.7,+20.8,-12.8,145.00,3.3
 4810,+16.1,3.9,101, 70,   00,  rich,+25.7,  47.7,+21.5,-14.0,145.00,3.3
 5005,+15.7,4.0,101, 70,   00,  rich,+27.5,  46.6,+21.8,-14.8,145.00,3.3
 5081,+15.1,4.0,101, 70,   00,  rich,+29.5,  50.4,+22.0,-15.1,145.00,3.4
 5200,+15.1,4.0,101, 70,   00,  rich,+30.7,  54.8,+22.0,-15.1,145.00,3.4
 5333,+15.3,4.1,101, 70,   00,  rich,+30.8,  54.4,+22.0,-15.1,145.00,3.5
 5393,+15.3,4.1,101, 80,   00,  rich,+30.4,  52.2,+22.6,-15.1,145.00,3.4
 5555,+15.7,4.1,101, 70,   00,  rich,+29.4,  56.3,+23.0,-15.2,145.00,3.5
 5717,+15.5,4.1,101, 70,   00,  rich,+31.2,  58.0,+23.0,-15.1,145.00,3.5
 5717,+15.9,4.1,101, 80,   00,  rich,+31.2,  58.6,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.5
 5868,+16.1,4.2,101, 80,   00,  rich,+31.9,  60.7,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.5
 5920,+16.1,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+31.8,  63.9,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 5995,+17.0,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+33.2,  64.0,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.5
 6218,+16.1,4.2,101, 80,   00,  rich,+33.5,  62.8,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6253,+16.4,4.2,101, 80,   00,  rich,+37.4,  62.4,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.5
 6349,+16.4,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+37.4,  65.6,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.5
 6497,+15.7,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+39.1,  63.5,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6510,+15.7,4.2,102, 70,   00,  rich,+39.1,  62.9,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6600,+15.3,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+39.3,  62.9,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6693,+15.1,4.2,100, 70,   00,  rich,+39.4,  66.0,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6761,+15.3,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+39.4,  66.3,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 6802,+14.9,4.3,101, 70,   00,  rich,+39.4,  65.7,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
 7062,+15.5,4.2,101, 70,   00,  rich,+39.5,  63.4,+23.0,-15.0,145.00,3.6
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Old 12-26-2004, 06:59 PM   #13
jefersun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma
Timing @ boost @ RPM all depends on each motor's VE. A different turbo will require a different ignition advance value than another, there is no "max" (espescially when using different fuels). For example: here is a small log section of my low boost/safer daily map for my VF22 - note the timing values (on 93 octane):
What afr are you running from peak boost to redline?
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Old 12-26-2004, 07:03 PM   #14
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On this map - 10.8 across the board after 7 psi or so.
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:41 PM   #15
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So i decided to add some timing and my "knock" counts went down, most likely misfiring like Clark said previously. But my problem is that i keep getting knock in this area (i don't know about the higher rpms because i haven't had a chance to get there because of this knock). Should i add even more timing?

3rd gear/upper 40s F:

PHP Code:
2493  +0.2 2.6  96  10    00   W/B  +35.7   10.8 +25.0  +2.3 360.00 2.2  13.59
 2568  
+0.6 2.6  97  10    00   W/B  +35.3   11.4 +24.4  +2.3 360.00 2.3  13.59
 2604  
+0.8 2.7  97  10    00   W/B  +34.6   12.1 +24.2  +2.4 360.00 2.3  13.45
 2670  
+1.3 2.7  98  10    00   W/B  +34.0   11.9 +23.6  +2.4 360.00 2.3  13.28
 2723  
+1.5 2.8  98  10    00   W/B  +33.5   12.8 +23.2  +2.2 360.00 2.3  13.12
 2770  
+1.7 2.8  98  10    00   W/B  +33.2   13.4 +23.0  +2.6 360.00 2.4  12.96
 2791  
+2.1 2.8  98  20    00   W/B  +33.2   12.3 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.3  12.78
 2851  
+2.3 2.8  98  20    00   W/B  +33.0   13.3 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.4  12.96
 2916  
+2.5 2.9  98  20    00   W/B  +33.0   13.8 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.4  13.53
 2986  
+2.7 2.9  98  20    00   W/B  +32.9   13.9 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.4  13.65
 3063  
+3.1 2.9  99  20    00   W/B  +32.7   15.2 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.56
 3100  
+3.5 3.0  98  20    00   W/B  +32.5   15.9 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.45
 3189  
+3.7 3.0  97  20    00   W/B  +32.5   16.8 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.5  13.14
 3245  
+4.1 3.0  98  20    00   W/B  +32.2   18.1 +21.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.86
 3274  
+4.3 3.2 100  30    00   W/B  +32.2   18.9 +20.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.59
 3333  
+4.7 3.2  99  30    00   W/B  +32.1   19.9 +20.0  -1.5 360.00 2.6  12.34
 3432  
+5.5 3.2  98  30    00   W/B  +28.2   21.7 +20.0  -1.5 360.00 2.7  12.18
 3483  
+6.2 3.3  98  40    00   W/B  +17.5   23.1 +19.0  -0.8 360.00 2.7  12.09
 3549  
+6.8 3.4  98  40    00   W/B  +15.8   24.3 +19.0  -0.7 360.00 2.8  11.98
 3639  
+7.8 3.5  98  40    00   W/B  +13.9   27.2 +19.0  -0.8 360.00 2.9  11.68
 3728  
+8.4 3.5  98  50    01   W/B  +17.0   30.5 +17.0  -2.2 360.00 2.9  11.33
 3840  
+9.6 3.7  98  50    04   W/B  +15.6   32.5 +13.6  -1.4 360.00 3.0  10.93
 3958 
+10.8 3.7  98  60    00   W/B  +14.8   33.8 +13.0  -2.2 360.00 3.0  10.73
 3853 
+11.0 2.5   0  00    00   W/B  +34.8    5.7 ECU.   +3.0 356.00 1.7  10.76
 4301  
+7.2 2.0   0  00    00   W/B  +29.6   23.2 ECU.   +3.0 ECU.   1.8  11.30 
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma
Timing @ boost @ RPM all depends on each motor's VE. A different turbo will require a different ignition advance value than another, there is no "max" (espescially when using different fuels). For example: here is a small log section of my low boost/safer daily map for my VF22 - note the timing values (on 93 octane):
Could you post your timing map or send it to me via pm please? Also, do you have a log from 2000 rpm in 3rd gear so that i could compare timing values? (your log has rpm values that i haven't even reached ...)
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Old 12-27-2004, 06:16 PM   #17
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My car and I are separated by about 400 miles right now so I cant get you a log. I do happen to have the timing map on hand, I'll PM it to you shortly.
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Old 12-27-2004, 07:25 PM   #18
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Thanks i really appreciate it.

The funny thing is that i don't know how things could have suddenly gone wrong. Initially i was tuned on a boost leak, but now that is fixed. I turned down the boost and leaned out my mid range a little bit and everything was fine. Suddenly things just started getting bad... I really do think i have a dirty injector.

What i was thinkin was this: If i have a dirty injector then the gasoline flow through injector must be clogged, therefore, my injector duty cycle would be the same but i'm not spitting out as much fuel as i thought i am. Furthermore, i'm thinking that this is only affecting one cylinder and the others are fine (assuming that i have ONE dirty injector), so my AFR wouldn't be able to tell me if i had a lean condition... Anyone have any thoughts on my theory?

Where can i get my injectors flowbenched and cleaned for a resonable price?

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Old 12-27-2004, 08:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefersun
.....
What i was thinkin was this: If i have a dirty injector then the gasoline flow through injector must be clogged, therefore, my injector duty cycle would be the same but i'm not spitting out as much fuel as i thought i am. Furthermore, i'm thinking that this is only affecting one cylinder and the others are fine (assuming that i have ONE dirty injector), so my AFR wouldn't be able to tell me if i had a lean condition... Anyone have any thoughts on my theory?...
This is exactly what I was thinkin. You could be runnin 10.5 to 1 in three cylinders and 12.5 to 1 in the fourth and get a a/f reading of 10.9 or something. Lotsa people send their injectors to rc, that's about all I know on the subject. eh,

peace
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Old 12-28-2004, 04:05 AM   #20
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apparently it was a bad tank of gas (filled the 1st time in myh life with phillips 66). Put a full tank of shell and i can floor it in 1st and 2nd, i'll do some logs tomorrow. Thanks for everyones help..
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Old 12-28-2004, 11:08 AM   #21
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I know the feeling, I was getting random 1 to 7 counts even in 1st gear and it turns out it was the gas. Well, at least you found out some things about your timing map as well
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Old 12-28-2004, 03:28 PM   #22
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Yea my timing map wasn't as low overral as in the logs, those logs were with like 2-3 degrees off in most parts of the map. But still, i think i'm gonna use your timing map as a base and see how it works. Maybe pull some timing, i don't konw if my car can handle that much...
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Old 12-28-2004, 05:47 PM   #23
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Just out of curiousity, what type of intercooler do you use?
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Old 12-29-2004, 02:10 AM   #24
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Stock TMIC... i'm interested in your mods, could you list?
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Old 12-29-2004, 09:35 AM   #25
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Just the power stuff:
VF22
Vishnu uppipe, Stromung downpipe & 3rd cat, Borla Hush catback
APS 70mm cold air intake, TXS V1 TMIC
Walbro fuel pump, choped stock injectors

I'd recommend a TMIC upgrade for you, you will pick up a bunch of power from less pressure drop and more efficiency as well as a small increase in throttle responce.
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