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Old 12-30-2004, 12:54 PM   #1
javid
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Default Whos spinning the 2.5 past 7k?

Just interested in how many of you are spinning the 2.5 past 7k. I realize that the stock heads aren't built for high revs but I know a few of you guys are revin them past 7k. I know there are a few out there that have the 2.5 with upgraded heads, cams, turbos. The piont is to try and get a better idea of how well the 2.5 takes to reving past 7k. Going fast and shifting at the correct RPM is certainly useful info but NOT the intent of the thread.

So...

What are you reving to?
How long have you been reving that high?
How is the car used / how often do you rev it out.
Whats your setup (what internals, heads, EM and turbo)?
HP and torque at 6k 7k and beyond?
Boost at 7k and beyond.

Thanks

Who: blinguskan
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: Since 12-04
Use: Street and Drag, 7-7.5k mostly first gear and 4th gear
Setup: Stock block and heads, FP Green, ECUTek, UTEC
Power Band:
Boost: 22 psi to red line

Who: XT6Wagon
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: ?
Use: AutoX
Setup: Stock block and heads
Power Band: stockish with flash?
Boost: ?

Who: Bailey
Limit: 8000
Time with limit: ?
Use: ?
Setup: Balanced stock block w/ CP pistons, stock head. FP Green
Power Band: 360-400 whp, peak hp before 7k
Boost: ?

Who: Element Tuning
Limit: 7600 (7400 soft limit)
Time with limit: ?
Use: Road Race and street, mostly first gear and to avoid short shifting on the track.
Setup: Stock block and heads, big turbo, Hydra EMS
Power Band: 362 ft/lbs at 5200 rpm, 406 whp at 6000-6700
300 ft/lbs from 4100 rpm to 7000 rpm and 375 whp at 7400 rpm
Boost: ?

Who: xephyr
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: 20,000+
Use: Road Race and street, mostly first gear and to avoid short shifting on the track
Setup: EJ257 with RS heads, 60-1, link plus
Power Band: 400-450 whp between 5-7k, 400 @ 7k, 350 @ 7.5k
Boost: 22 psi

Who: Clark, Kingpin
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: ?
Use: ?
Setup:
Power Band: Probably alot...
Boost:

Who: john banks
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: ?
Use: ?
Setup: Stock ej257 with 2.0 P1 heads
Power Band:
Boost: ?

Who: DSport Magazine Project STi
Limit: 7600 RPM
Time with limit: ?
Use: Street, Track, Drag... Everything
Setup: EJ257- Atomic Speedware pistons, Scat rods, Cosworth balanced, XS-Engineering Built, XS-Flash Tuning.
Power Band: 365+ WHP
Boost: 1.4-Bar (~ 21 psi)

Who: PDXTuning WRX
Limit: 8200 RPM
Time with limit: 2 years
Use: Street, Track, Drag... Everything
Setup: EJ257- CP Pistons, JDM Spec C Heads and Cams, PDXTuning (of course) Flash+UTEC, GT35R/.82AR
Power Band: 450+ WHP
Boost: 1.8 Bar (~ 26 psi)

Who: MaurnoMotorsports
Limit: 8000rpm (usually don't go past 7500rpm)
Time with limit: ???
Use: Street, Track, Auto-x, HARD ABUSE ??
Motor - Axis Stage III shortblock, ported/polished heads, stiffer valve spring, stock cams, [and likely a big turbo]
Power Band: 420 whp at 6000-6700 rpm
Issues: Rod Bearings are spent due to possible Det and oiling issues, oil pump was seized upon tear down.


Who: Rocket Rally
Limit: 7900 RPM
Time with limit: 9 months
Use: Street, Track, Auto-x, HARD ABUSE
Standard Built Setup (used on all): EJ257 - upgraded Pistons and rods, balanced crank to 85k, EJ257 fuly ported and polished heads, custom AVCS cams, upgraded valves, springs and retainers, built by Rocket Rally, tuned by Rocket Rally
Power Band: 430+ WHP
Boost: 1.55 Bar
Had to also baffle the sumps and reroute the oil return and breather lines as the cars pull too much Gs for the stock oiling system with slicks. Same for fuel. Peak torque is way below 8k rpm, even though I keep telling them that, they dont stop though

Who: javid
Limit: 7500 RPM
Time with limit: 4/06
Use: Street, Track, Drag, HARD ABUSE
Setup: stock 257 with PWR Radiator, Custom oil Cooler, TGV delete, 44mm EWG, and Deadbolt SZ60. TopSpeed road course tune on pump and meth. Power Band: 450+ WHP from 5000 to 7500
Boost: 1.5 track, 2 bar drag


Happy reving
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Last edited by javid; 06-01-2006 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:01 PM   #2
blinguskahn
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Rev limiter on my ECUTek is set at 7500. No problems so far.
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Old 12-30-2004, 03:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinguskahn
Rev limiter on my ECUTek is set at 7500. No problems so far.
Details? STock turbo?
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:26 PM   #4
XT6Wagon
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I run my STi w a 7,500 redline and the LGT with a 7K redline. Next time the LGT gets reflashed it will be moving to 8K with 7,500-8K having boost pulled and the throttle plate partialy close to make for a very soft limiter. IE useful powerband 3-7K 7-7.5K for "passing", and 7.5K-8K for "riding the limiter" like you sometimes need to for autoXing.
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:44 PM   #5
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I realize its a bit of change in topic, but do the exhaust cams permit you to make more power out there? Seems like the STI's torque is diving at 6000 RPM with stock cams. Are you just looking for more shifting flexibility?
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:44 PM   #6
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i would love to have top end / high revs on this car, but i just don't think the engine is meant for it. maybe with a different turbo, cams and management (there would be power up there). isn't the stroke too long though?
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Old 12-30-2004, 09:51 PM   #7
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Riding the rev limiter is really smart... especially when you increase it over stock without modifying the valvetrain.

~v6
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:23 PM   #8
XT6Wagon
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The cams are a limiter at higher RPM, but my STi tends to make peak HP at around the stock 7K rev limit. IIRC Sponaugle was making peak power on a stock EJ257 shortblock at 8K or so with Spec-C cams and a AVO600. I know his revlimit was around 8,300.

Honestly the REAL point to raising the limiter isn't for making the car faster for MOST of the cars out there with the EJ255/EJ257, but rather make 1st last a bit longer so its easier to drive, make a gear last longer when autoXing so you don't ride the limiter at the end of the straights. Basicly just because you CAN rev the motor to X rpm doesn't mean that you have too or should. IE stock STi's are fastest with shiftpoints well below the stock redline.
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:33 PM   #9
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There's really no need to wait past 7k to shift with the stock turbo since it's no top end monster, but sometimes I do shift at around 7200 or 7300 since 1st gear goes by so fast. However my petpeeve is when people shift TOO early at like 6000 or 6500 because they "don't want to hurt the car".

However if you're talking about raising the rev limiter, that would probably be needed if you upgrade to a big turbo or higher duration camshafts. Then you could upgrade to titanium valve springs to prevent valve float. Raising the rev limiter would probably benefit drag racers that run huge turbos that don't get full boost until 5000rpm, those massive turbos usually want to keep pullling and pulling past redline. But hey what do I know, i'm a n00b
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Old 12-31-2004, 03:52 AM   #10
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yea with a bigger turbo, and cams i think there would be an advantage in having a higher rev limit
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Old 12-31-2004, 04:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NskGenakuDuckie
There's really no need to wait past 7k to shift with the stock turbo since it's no top end monster, but sometimes I do shift at around 7200 or 7300 since 1st gear goes by so fast. However my petpeeve is when people shift TOO early at like 6000 or 6500 because they "don't want to hurt the car".

However if you're talking about raising the rev limiter, that would probably be needed if you upgrade to a big turbo or higher duration camshafts. Then you could upgrade to titanium valve springs to prevent valve float. Raising the rev limiter would probably benefit drag racers that run huge turbos that don't get full boost until 5000rpm, those massive turbos usually want to keep pullling and pulling past redline. But hey what do I know, i'm a n00b
I agree. I ran 13.2@103 with a 1.9 sixty foot shifting @ 6k in my STi.

~v6
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Old 12-31-2004, 08:59 AM   #12
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what about a stock sti 2.5 short block with wrx heads using jun 272 cams?? u think that is good for some 8k revs??
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Old 12-31-2004, 10:15 AM   #13
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according to crawford performance the STOCK usdm sti can be safely reved to 8000 RPM with no adverse affects... Now, obviously you wont make any power at that level without mods.
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Old 12-31-2004, 11:45 AM   #14
Abe Froman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NskGenakuDuckie
However my petpeeve is when people shift TOO early at like 6000 or 6500 because they "don't want to hurt the car".
Quote:
Originally Posted by V6TurboTA
I agree ... shifting @ 6k in my STi.

~v6
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Old 12-31-2004, 01:03 PM   #15
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What he meant is that he agreed with the fact that NSK is a n00b. V6's time comfirms that, as does the simple fact that there is no point in waiting till redline to shift in an STi because power starts to drop off over 6k.

-George, also agrees that NSK is a n00b
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Old 12-31-2004, 03:46 PM   #16
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There is just not any return on raising the rev limit without a longer duration cams and stronger valve springs. Plus the despite Quirt's vote of confidence, we just don't know that the engine is balanced to accept higher revs without more risk of damage.

If you rebuild the engine and valvetrain you are going to see benefits but this is a major undertaking. Spend you time and money on the power band you've got instead.
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Old 12-31-2004, 04:15 PM   #17
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My STi motor is fully ballanced with CP forged pistons. FP green setup 360 to 400 whp. Stock valvetrain.

Rev limit is set to 8k but the car makes much more power in the lower revs.

There's no extra power above 7k but the motor is perceptably smoother with the ballanced rebuild. Step off the power at 7k with a clutch in and the motor will free spin to 7800...... feels like it'll rev to infinity.

My perception of "smoothness" at higher RPMs is certainly not quantifiable but everyone who rides in the car has noticed its willingness to rev. Think cavalier vs integra GSR.

Keep in mind that the stock motor - because its not build for high rev power - is not that well ballanced. In some cases the crank can be as much as 3 grams out. Also, the US STi motor is NOT built by hand in the STi factory.... these 2.5 motors are mass produced for several different cars.... i's be VERY surprised if motors that go into the STi recieve any different manufacturing process or tollerance spec than do those destined for the legacy or forester xt.

Happy reving
Bailey
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:01 PM   #18
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Bump, still curious about who is reving high, and thier setup. I went ahead and edited in the info I was looking for.

Not to take a way from the “stock power band is low”, “shift early”, and “the stock heads, turbo, etc aren’t fit for high revs” (cause these point are certainly relevant to the topic), BUT I and many others are already familiar with these facts. What we don’t know is real world capabilities to rev higher with the stock bottom end and different setups, hence my thread.

“High rev’ers” post up.

Thanks
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:12 PM   #19
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Javid i am going to be bumping up the rev limiter to 8k when I get done with the motor build up.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:46 PM   #20
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This was using the smaller .63 exhaust housing on my current setup, using stock STI long block, and Element Hydra EMS:

Peak Power: 406 whp at 6000-6700 rpm
375 whp at 7400 rpm (soft limit)
7600 rpm hard limit
Peak Torque: 362 ft/lbs at 5200 rpm
300 ft/lbs at 4100 rpm and 300 ft/bs at 7000 rpm.

The extra rpm is used mostly in first gear or when shifting up one more gear would take longer than reving the engine out a few hundred more RPM (road racing). Tuning after 7000 rpm was extremely rich to control egts (small exhaust housing) when over reving so peak power could have been maintained to 7400 rpm.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:53 PM   #21
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dlowman: excellant, I know your getting the S3 shortblock, what heads and turbo?
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:00 PM   #22
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Phil thanks for the info and the detail on the power band.

What turbo and boost?
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:08 PM   #23
blinguskahn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javid

Who: blinguskan
Limit: 7500
Time with limit: ?
Use: ?
Setup: Stock block and heads
Power Band: stockish
Boost: ?
Time with Limit: 2 months
Use: Street, Drag
Boost: 22ish

I rarely rev above 7K except on 1st and 4th. Sometimes I do in 3rd, but very rarely.
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:13 PM   #24
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partly the main reason to raise the rev limit is to stay in the power band longer when shifting, well, given the state of tune. a higher rev limit is nothing unless you tune for it. if you're going for a top end/high speed tune, then a high rev limit is useful given that you will have more power on tap and for a longer period. this is why a bigger turbo is great for a high revving application. if you're going for just quarter mile times, then i don't see a 8K rev limit very useful if you're making peak power at about 5000K or so. when going in the quarter mile i think it would be more important to stay within your power band and get through your gears faster, rather than stay in gear longer. i don't know, V6turbo would probably say i'm wrong.

remember, if you shift the rev limit, you need to shift your peak power as well. so it all comes down to application. so if your turbo runs out of breath before 7000k, then it's pointless to have a 8k rev limit. turbo's like engines have their sweet spots, now the tricky part is matching both together for maximum performance, which is why we have tuning (a big part of everything, i must say).

if you expect to raise your rev limit, it would be wise to make sure that you have the right upgrades to support it. just a thought, others could disagree.
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:16 PM   #25
blinguskahn
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Clamdip,

In terms of Drag Racing, I like the raised rev limit mainly for my slow reflexes and pulling farther in 1st and 4th gears. It helps me stop from bouncing off the limiter as well.
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