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Old 01-07-2005, 09:44 PM   #1
whitegdwagon
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Default Blown engine while using UTEC

Has anyone blown their engine while using the UTEC?
I know Utec is sensitive to knock but has anyone blown a motor while tuning their UTEC on the road with the knock sensor in default setting?

Just wondering before I go play with my UTEC.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:50 PM   #2
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Some UTECs have been shipped with settings for no knock correction at all. Check your current settings...then go out and play.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:13 PM   #3
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There have been many many people who have had blown engines with the utec. The knock sensor help any until ya actually get a knock, and at that point it might be a bit late. It's there so the engine doesn't keep on knocking(after the first one).

peace
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:15 PM   #4
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IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING---DO NOT----DO NOT----'PLAY' WITH YOUR UTEC.

RTFM...
RTFM, AGAIN...

AND THEN READ IT AGAIN.

And if you STILL have ANY doubt about what's what.....

STOP......and call TXS.
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:16 PM   #5
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More importantly, knock sensors don't detect/prevent pre-ignition, which is what REALLY breaks things. Your motor can take a certain amount of detonation before breaking, usually its long enough to tune it out (if it happens while tuning- if you drive on a knocking map for long, buh bye).
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Old 01-07-2005, 10:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING---DO NOT----DO NOT----'PLAY' WITH YOUR UTEC.

RTFM...
RTFM, AGAIN...

AND THEN READ IT AGAIN.

And if you STILL have ANY doubt about what's what.....

STOP......and call TXS.
Heh, tell 'em.

Slightly unrelated, but this reminds me when APEX-i first released the SUPER-AFC's for cars, I had so many people coming to a shop I used to work at wondering why their cars were suddenly running so rich/lean.
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:06 AM   #7
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Thanks for the advice.

My current mods are GTSPEC GEN II, VF34, bosal down pipe, stock mid-pipe and greddy EVO cat-back.

No STI pink injectors and an IC upgrade. Can I run the stage 3 map from TurboXS website or just stick to stage 2 to be safe.

I want bring the car to a tuner with a dyno in NY but I do not know of one. I am on Long Island NY and I don't really want to drive 2 hours to tune the car everytime I ad something else to it.

Thanks
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:57 AM   #8
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Your car with the stock midpipe has more backpressure than the stage 3 map is tuned for. I'd really get a custom tune if I were you. Also, you mean "now STi pinks" or "new STi pinks"?
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:55 AM   #9
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I would recommend a custome tune... When I was shopping for an ECU solution, I DL'ed the manual from TurboXS's site, and read it through a few times.... It was a little too complicated... Some parts made sense, but I really did not want to test my knowlege out on my own car...

I would say that there are more people with popped engines out there who use the utec, but there are two reasons for that... Utec is most popular ecu solution (so more people buy them than any other solution) , AND, many of the people buying the things really don't have a handle (although they THINK they do) on tuning an engine, so they end up popping them sooner or later...UTEC is a really powerful tool, and it isn't until you read the manual that you begin to get an idea of how close you can be at anytime to blowing up if you enter the wrong figures in some maps.

Take the car to someone who specialises in tuning the things, and all will be well.
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:19 PM   #10
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As previously mentioned by the above posts, you can most definitely blow up your engine with a UTEC. For that matter you can blow up your engine with any semi powerful tuning tools. That is something to fear. The thing about that fear is you can let it rule and never learn anything. I'm not saying abandon it. Just educate yourself and move cautiously. With some reading and a little patience you can do this. All you need now is a TurboXS Tuner (or some other wide band).
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Old 01-08-2005, 01:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigga
....Take the car to someone who specialises in tuning the things, and all will be well.
Not that I think adjusting things when ya don't know what's going on is a good idea, but there have been many many wrx's with blown engines which have been tuned by "experts". If you push an engine hard for a long time, something is gonna break. You might have a better chance of the engine lasting longer with a good tune, but that does not gaurantee the engine will last. It's all a craps game, and you better have some extra money layin around just in case something does go wrong. <edit>Here's an old relating thread... Hey jigga, kinda amusing that you were one of the few people in that thread with an impropper tune, and it wasn't because of you messing with things(it was the tuners fault). There are also people in that same thread who are well respected tuners who have had multiple engine problems.........

peace

Last edited by hippy; 01-08-2005 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 01-08-2005, 02:51 PM   #12
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Not that I think adjusting things when ya don't know what's going on is a good idea, but there have been many many wrx's with blown engines which have been tuned by "experts".
My EJ20 blew while running a Vishnu Stg 2 Unichip. While this isn't a UTEC, it was still tuned by a very reputable professional, Shiv himself loaded most of my maps when I 'up-staged'. I have since been running a self-tuned UTEC with my new setup for over 15K mi. (knock on wood).

Just some food for thought...

-jason
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Old 01-08-2005, 03:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy
Not that I think adjusting things when ya don't know what's going on is a good idea, but there have been many many wrx's with blown engines which have been tuned by "experts". If you push an engine hard for a long time, something is gonna break. You might have a better chance of the engine lasting longer with a good tune, but that does not gaurantee the engine will last. It's all a craps game, and you better have some extra money layin around just in case something does go wrong. <edit>Here's an old relating thread...

peace
agreed, but I think we can all agree that an engine would be less likely to pop if tuned by professional with expereince, as oposed to a rank amateur who needs to ask if anyone has ever blown an engine using utec.

With regard to that thread you posted, yes, if you push ANY engine (stock or modified) long enough, something will break. The moral of that thread is that people were either running the wrong map put on the unichip by a tuner (me ), or they were trying to mine too much power out of the car, given the turbo and fuel. If you notice, those with vf30's were pushing damn near 300whp.... Remember, the VF30 is a turbo rated by IHI to be good for 350HP at the crank.

Some with VF23's are in the 27xWHP range, on 91 octane, which I am sure is well beyond what the turbo is rated for (crank-wise) by IHI.

The moral of the story of that thread was that people are pushing for too much power with turbos that are just too small to get the desired power..Those who wanted 300whp should NOT have been trying to get there with a VF30....They should have been looking at something bigger. Bigger turbos would allow for the use of a much fore conservative map, which in turn will let the engine live by minimizing possiblity of detonation creeping in.

jmussetter - Were these maps on your unichip custom tunes? Or mail-order tunes?
Also, I think it was established back in the day as to how the unichip and ecu had a very 'iffy' working relationship, constant battles over control of timing that often resulted in long-term changes in the ignition maps uploaded into the unichip. Not trying to shift blame or anything here, but perhaps something to think about?

Femi
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN SUVS
Your car with the stock midpipe has more backpressure than the stage 3 map is tuned for.
3rd cat really isn't that restrictive.

imho of course.

ken
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitegdwagon
Thanks for the advice.

My current mods are GTSPEC GEN II, VF34, bosal down pipe, stock mid-pipe and greddy EVO cat-back.

No STI pink injectors and an IC upgrade. Can I run the stage 3 map from TurboXS website or just stick to stage 2 to be safe.

I want bring the car to a tuner with a dyno in NY but I do not know of one. I am on Long Island NY and I don't really want to drive 2 hours to tune the car everytime I ad something else to it.

Thanks
Then i would say go with ecutek dave brown of www.mspt.net (metric subaru performance tuning) will do an incresable job!!!! there located in huntington on rt25 if you want more opinions about him i would suggest checking out www.sqc-ny.com, many of there cars were tuned by him and they will answer any questions for you..
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Old 01-08-2005, 09:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
3rd cat really isn't that restrictive.

imho of course.

ken
Perhaps not, but a 2.25" cat is gonna have more backpressure than a 3" pipe. That raises EGTs and makes your engine more knock prone.
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Old 01-09-2005, 12:40 AM   #17
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:51 AM   #18
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So I still have a question?

Where do I go for a customer UTEC tune in NYC?
Or who is reputable and is closest to me?

Well, I purposely did not upgrade the mid pipe is because I need it to pass emission without changing the mid pipe everytime. Also the extra back pressure will give me a little better bottom end as compare to a turbo back. It's not a problem for the STI to go turbo back because the 6 speed really helps down low but I feel the WRX needs the little help in that field with stock tranny opf course. So I would say I need to have the UTEC tune for this setup.

I am willing to go but just need to knwo where to go.
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:09 PM   #19
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jmussetter - Were these maps on your unichip custom tunes? Or mail-order tunes?
I had Vishnu's off-shelf maps loaded for all stages from Stg0, Stg1, and finally Stg2. After running Stg2 for about a month, I called to schedule a custom tune, and Shiv refused to dyno my car, since it had a exhaust dump (QTEC valve) on it. Less than 2 months after he refused to custom dyno tune me, my motor poped on a long 4 gear pull. I learned my lesson, rebuilt the car, and switched to the UTEC so I wouldn't be 'locked into' the mercy of a particular tuner to tune my car. And my street maps are working very well so far, with no dyno tuning done yet.

Lesson learned, just like with any mechanic/tuner, if you want it done right, do it yourself. The only engine component that is still stock in my car is the cams/heads, and my car has NEVER been to a mechanic...all done myself for better or worse.

-jason
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Old 01-11-2005, 04:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitegdwagon
So I still have a question?

Where do I go for a customer UTEC tune in NYC?
Or who is reputable and is closest to me?

Well, I purposely did not upgrade the mid pipe is because I need it to pass emission without changing the mid pipe everytime. Also the extra back pressure will give me a little better bottom end as compare to a turbo back. It's not a problem for the STI to go turbo back because the 6 speed really helps down low but I feel the WRX needs the little help in that field with stock tranny opf course. So I would say I need to have the UTEC tune for this setup.

I am willing to go but just need to knwo where to go.
The extra back pressure won't help bottom end at all. It is an old myth from hot rodders. The best turbo back is no exhaust. You want as little pressure after the turbo as possible. I'd rather spool sooner which gives much better torque.

Turbo XS is in Maryland. Which may be the closest reputible tuner out there.
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:31 PM   #21
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The best tune in the world won't prevent mechanical fatigue. Nothing is unbreakable, everything has a life span... for someone to tell you otherwise, walk away.

Take that statement, and superimpose that on those who don't know what they're doing, or are going through learning pains. You accelerate the inevitable.

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Old 01-11-2005, 06:16 PM   #22
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The reason Shiv wouldn't tune the car with the dump valve on it is the huge variable it places in the system. Backpressure is obviously hugely different with it open and closed, which is why you installed it. Since the Unichip has no map switching of any kind, your car would have an improper tune with the valve either open or closed, which would in turn guarantee a bad tune from shiv one way or another. You can't blame him for not tuning a car that was guaranteed to have a failure of some kind because of that.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:35 PM   #23
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Backpressure is obviously hugely different with it open and closed, which is why you installed it. Since the Unichip has no map switching of any kind, your car would have an improper tune with the valve either open or closed, which would in turn guarantee a bad tune from shiv one way or another.
This is true, and while it was NOT mentioned as a reason of why they wouldn't do it, I plainly stated that I wanted it tuned with it open and not closed, as if it's closed, I'm not pushing the car hard, and if I push the car, it's open.

Besides, while you can feel a power difference with the valve open, I don't get knock when I'm driving with it closed with my UTEC tune I have now. Only use 1 map on the UTEC.

-jason
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:06 PM   #24
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1) your daily driving tune is more likely to be cause of engine failure than your "fast" tune.

2) You can destroy an engine without a single ping ever happening. More than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 01-11-2005, 08:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmussetter
..I plainly stated that I wanted it tuned with it open and not closed, as if it's closed, I'm not pushing the car hard, and if I push the car, it's open....-jason
Maybe this is why he wouldn't tune the car? He probably could have tuned it safely with the valve closed. Tuning it with the valve open could cause some serious problems when the valve is closed(from the extra load), and it seems like he didn't want you to go back whining about how your engine died because of his tune.
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