Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday December 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-08-2005, 01:35 AM   #1
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default Cobb Stage 1 and high EGT's

I just flashed Cobb Stage 1 91 octane and took the car out for a drive. I saw the EGT's spike to over 1725F WOT in third at about 5500 RPM's. Cruise on the highway is fine at about +-1400F, just WOT it is getting scary hot. I would get on it again and it seemed to level off at about 1650F.

I have an omori electrical gauge tapped on the drivers side manifold into the casting bung.

Anyone else see these crazy high temps? Is there anything I can do?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2005, 10:17 AM   #2
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

Do you by any chance have a way to datalog (DeltaDash) to see what's going onduring the period of high EGTs?


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2005, 12:08 PM   #3
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

I wish I did, I may have to find a way. I audibly heard some pinging the first time I saw the high EGT's, so I know what happened there. Hopefully it is a learning thing with my CPU. Another interesting note is that we have always had 93 octane gas here but all the stations have switched over to 91. I hope it is a winter thing, but not a great development.

I may look at getting some Tulene added to this tank of gas and see if that helps cool things down.

Thanks for the replies.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2005, 12:20 PM   #4
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

I'd offer to help you log some data, but AR is a long way from MA

If you manage to get some logs, I'd be interested to see what's going on. I have some Stg1 logs from an '05 wrx from a friend- I haven't had a chance to look through them, but I'll see what kind of EGTs he was getting.

Good luck!


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2005, 12:48 PM   #5
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

That would be very helpful, thank you.

I am going to do some more driving today, and get a friend to watch the EGT gauge, maybe I was seeing things.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2005, 08:44 PM   #6
Supaboom
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38755
Join Date: Jun 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Va
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
WRB

Default

what can you use to log info from a AP?
Supaboom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 01:18 AM   #7
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

You can't log info with the AccessPort. I think the only thing it can do is read boost and display it.

The best tool that I have found is the DeltaDash by Ecutek. It lets you log any number of parameters. There may be some less-featured packages available, however, nothing as of now.

Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 01:42 AM   #8
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

I really think I got a horrible batch of gas, at least I hope. I am taking it very easy on the car now. I saw about 1700 before I got off of it in third today.

I know I could search this but I am lazy, if I heard the pinging, how much damage did I do to the engine? Should I worry about this or just keep listening to make sure I don't hear it?

Thanks for the help.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 01:19 PM   #9
hondaeater69
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60324
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: a pillow.
Default

Are you running the 91 octane map?? make sure you're not running the 93 map on 91 octane, that would make you run lean and have high EGT's like what you're describing. You may even want to look into the cali map, which is a detuned 91 oc map to help det. 1700 is unacceptable. I'm at stage 2.5 and i've NEVER seen 1600 WOT. I can't get it above 1550 WOT. Get off the gas when You hit around 1600, consistent temps above that number WILL cause severe damage to your engine.
hondaeater69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 01:30 PM   #10
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

I am on the Cali map, I have tried everything. Bellieve me I am off the gas at 1600.

This is just a little scary, how many people out there don't have an EGT gauge and run these temps and don't even know it. Hopefully it is a bad tank of gas, if not then I am back to square 1 and very dissapointed. If other people aren't seeing these high EGT's what other causes could it be besides the accessport?

Thanks for answering all my newbie questions.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 01:47 PM   #11
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
This is just a little scary, how many people out there don't have an EGT gauge and run these temps and don't even know it.
You bring up a really good point. Just because it's off-the-shelf management doesn't mean you shouldn't monitor the health of the car.

I have to catch a flight soon, however, I checked the logs and the highest temp my friend saw running stage 1 was 1553 measured in the uppipe. Still seems higher than you. I'm not sure if that's with the 91 octane map or the 91 octane CA map.

If you'd like I'll check to see what conditions that temp came on at.


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 02:14 PM   #12
jigga
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9960
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: in bed...
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
WRBlue Perl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie
the highest temp my friend saw running stage 1 was 1553 measured in the uppipe.
I believe those sort of temps equate to well over 1600 at the manifold near the block.. I am not so sure that is since the accepted max is around 1600F
jigga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 11:20 PM   #13
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

I found the problem. I did some more research on Cobb's site as well.

It seems that you have to have the base map at whatever stage you are on and then use the real time maps. I know this is probably common sense to most people, but I flashed the stock map as base and put the 91 octane Stage 1 map as the real time map.

I read on Cobb's site from trey that especially in the 2004's you have to have the base map at the stage you are at, because the real-time map can't adjust for all the parameters the base map can. This wasn't mentioned in the instruction manual anywhere I could see it.

I changed up the base map to California Stage 1 91 octane and set the real time map to normal Stage 1 91 octane and the highest EGT I have seen is right at 1500 wide open in third gear. No knock and nice and cool, cooler than stock in fact. I think this solved my problem.

Just thought I would close the loop here, thanks for all the replies.

2004 OWNERS MAKE SURE YOUR BASE MAP IS SET TO THE STAGE YOU ARE RUNNING WHEN USING THE ACCESSPORT.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2005, 11:32 PM   #14
wrx05
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69032
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
Obsidian Black

Default

good stuff pottymouth..Let me make sure I have this right..

For Example: I buy the AP and I flash my ECU to Stage 1 base map and I make no other changes. Then I decide to buy a DP and flash a real-time stage 2 map while my base map remains stage 1. This is why Im getting very high EGT temps..In order for me to avoid these temps I need to reflash my ecu with a stage 2 base map and do nothing else.

Thanks for your info..I dont want to screw anything up when I go to stage 2.
wrx05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2005, 10:38 AM   #15
hondaeater69
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60324
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: a pillow.
Default

Well, if you have stage 1 base, stage 2 mods, and stage 2 real time, you won't be running high EGT's, you'll have most of stage 1 as your mapping so you'll be mostly running stage 1 parameters, which are more conservative then stage 2's. Do you see how that's the opposite of what potty mouth was doing? He was running a more agressive map as base (91 octane), and a conversative as real time (cali 91). . .doesn't make any sense to do something like that.


Glad to see you got it figured out pottmouth. This is very simple people, use the correct BASE map for your stage AND octane!!

Last edited by hondaeater69; 01-10-2005 at 11:34 AM.
hondaeater69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2005, 12:18 PM   #16
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

The makes sense I suppose- the infamous CL/OL delay is probably somewhere deep in the ECU and can't be modified by using a realtime map alone.

Good detective work


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2005, 12:24 PM   #17
Bagelw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 41874
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Black

Default

I had my base map set at stock and ran Stage 1 91 as my realtime map and never saw or heard any problems but I don't have an EGT gauge. I guess I got lucky because I drove like this for 6 months and even tracked the car several times and never had any problems other than some pinging on mild throttle before letting the engine warm up.

Now I have gone Stage 2. I have my base map as Stage 1 91 and my realtime map set at Stage 2 91. Seems to work fine. I really have got to get some gauges though because this has me somewhat worried.
Bagelw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2005, 10:08 PM   #18
root
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 55854
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central FL
Vehicle:
2004 STi
Blue/silver

Default

I can get my stage 2 Cobb to hold 1600-1625 when I'm pushing it. It does worry me that it will sit there until I lift off. I still haven't figured out how worried I should be though, if at all. BTW, this is on an STi.
root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2005, 10:41 PM   #19
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

Hondeater, I have the 91 octane as the base map and I am running the same real time map until they get 93 back here again. but yes it is simple now

WRX I think the main problem is with the base (stock) map and stage 1 or 2, I wouldn't think you would have as big of a problem if you had stage 1 base and running stage 2 realtime, but better be safe then sorry.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 02:31 AM   #20
drees
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25905
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2003 Silver Wagon
Tuned with Enginuity

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
It seems that you have to have the base map at whatever stage you are on and then use the real time maps. I know this is probably common sense to most people, but I flashed the stock map as base and put the 91 octane Stage 1 map as the real time map.

2004 OWNERS MAKE SURE YOUR BASE MAP IS SET TO THE STAGE YOU ARE RUNNING WHEN USING THE ACCESSPORT.
Worth repeating one more time.
drees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 12:42 PM   #21
darksands
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75122
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Im in a glass case of emotion
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX
Crystal Gray

Default

Before using the AP maps, you should read the map notes on the website.

"Base Map vs Real Time Map Differences -
The base mapping contains some additional logic for improved performance and is
HIGHLY recommended to be used if you plan on operating at a Stage1 level."
darksands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 03:58 PM   #22
StopSweatinMe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78421
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Philly PA
Vehicle:
2013 Toyota Avalon
Nautical Blue

Default

I am running the Stage 1 91 octane base map and the stage 1 93 octane realtime map. Do you think this can cause any problems? I have had absolutely no problems doing this and the car is running great. Oh, and i use either 93 or 94 octane ALL of the time.
StopSweatinMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 04:51 PM   #23
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

I think mixing the octane between the base and realtime maps should be fine from what I've seen.

The thread does bring up something that bugs me- maybe if the documentation that comes with the AP were clearer, people wouldn't have these problems and questions.
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 05:40 PM   #24
hondaeater69
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60324
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: a pillow.
Default

The problem is that you have people that THINK they know what they are doing. Potty mouth says "It seems that you have to have the base map at whatever stage you are on and then use the real time maps. I know this is probably common sense to most people, but I flashed the stock map as base and put the 91 octane Stage 1 map as the real time map."

Common sense to the use the same base and real time for what stage you're on!?!?!? Stop thinking people, you're endangering the welfare of your car! If you don't understand CALL COBB AND ASK THEM, THAT'S WHY GOD INVENTED THE PHONE.
hondaeater69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2005, 06:01 PM   #25
zanderspeed
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 72818
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2002 Bugeye
EJ25 | FPGreen

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69
THAT'S WHY GOD INVENTED THE PHONE.
God didn't invent the phone... Darwin did
zanderspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cobb stage 1 and 2, pros and cons tacomaprime Engine Management & Tuning 21 12-13-2005 02:17 PM
Cobb Stage 1 93 oct EGT's slowscooby Engine Management & Tuning 2 03-13-2005 04:34 PM
COBB Stage 1 and 3/16" restrictor mod. Thunder Lungs Engine Management & Tuning 3 04-25-2004 11:40 PM
COBB Stage 1 and warranty adim_x Engine Management & Tuning 6 12-26-2003 08:32 PM
Anyone have Cobb Stage 1 and no other mods Scoobie Newbie Engine Management & Tuning 2 07-08-2003 02:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.