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Old 01-08-2005, 10:25 AM   #1
pux888
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Default problems w/ my hydra

i can get my car to start w/ the stock ecu, but not w/ the hydra. the hydra will start my friends car but not mine so i know it's good. what could be the problem? the only other wireing in the car that might cause a problem could be the turbo timer and defi link as they are wirred into the iginition. i am at a lost what do you guys think?
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:06 AM   #2
DarthChicken
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Assuming you got your hydra from Element tuning, all the settings are correct. However... if you have different injectors than the map that was sent out, then you may have to make some adjustments.

I would add 1ms of fuel on the first 3 rows, all colums below 1 lb boost (all vacuum load sites). Try again.
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:45 AM   #3
pux888
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did you read the ? it will work on one car but NOT mine so its the hydra. im trying to figgure out if the TT or the link would effect the ignition. phil said that the hydra doesnt use all of the wires in the harness so some neseccary for the hydra to start the engine may not be that important for the stock ecu to run
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Old 01-08-2005, 11:46 AM   #4
pux888
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recap hydra doesnt work on my car, does on my friends. stock ecu will start my car. ?????
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Old 01-08-2005, 12:59 PM   #5
jlee8196
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maybe the charge on the batt. Since it takes more cranks to start.
When i first got hydra, didn't know about the extra cranks, so about the 4 or 5 tries the starter seems little weaker. It drans alot of amps to start it that for sure.
Good luck.
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Old 01-08-2005, 01:57 PM   #6
pux888
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naw man i tried that too, im completely stumped.
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:33 PM   #7
klug
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Remove the defi link and turbo timer. They're the only variables left. I don't know what they're specifically wired into, but if either alter a signal that the hydra is looking for, it could be enough to prevent the hydra from generating the correct output (fuel/timing) to get your car to start. It is just a computer, so junk in = junk out.

I'm just making a guess based on the info provided... Given you have a swap (shortblock? longblock? if so, are you trying to run the AVCS with the hydra?) it may be more complicated...

Good luck.

klug

Last edited by klug; 01-09-2005 at 12:49 AM. Reason: noticed "STi swap"
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Old 01-09-2005, 12:23 AM   #8
pux888
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bump
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:37 AM   #9
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Your freinds car is a "normal" wrx, right?
And your car is a wrx with a USDM STI motor swap, right?

That may be the problem, If you got your Hydra with a USDM WRX 2.0L base map, it will not run your USDM STI 2.5L motor.
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:17 AM   #10
pux888
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nope it would at least start. ive run the sti 2.5 no a normal wrx ecu before and it ran fine.
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:17 AM   #11
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plus it's mapped for my setup of course.
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:21 AM   #12
Uncle Scotty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pux888
nope it would at least start. ive run the sti 2.5 no a normal wrx ecu before and it ran fine.

This has NOTHING at all to do with you issue.

The issue is NOT the HYDRA....it is your car.
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Old 01-09-2005, 12:13 PM   #13
pux888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
This has NOTHING at all to do with you issue.

The issue is NOT the HYDRA....it is your car.

if YOU can read the thread i stated that the hydra works FINE. im trying to trouble shoot what wrong w/ my car. thanks for the help.
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Old 01-10-2005, 06:42 AM   #14
CK02WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthChicken
Assuming you got your hydra from Element tuning, all the settings are correct. However... if you have different injectors than the map that was sent out, then you may have to make some adjustments.

I would add 1ms of fuel on the first 3 rows, all colums below 1 lb boost (all vacuum load sites). Try again.
I second this. All engines are different and some need more fuel to start. If you have a starting problem and the hydra is setup properly you more than likely need more fuel. When you crank the engine watch the fuel table and you'll see the load site/RPM where your engine is trying to start. Add fuel in tose cells and the surronding sites.

Last edited by CK02WRX; 01-10-2005 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 01-10-2005, 08:08 AM   #15
pux888
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again the map is specifically for my car. anyone have any useful comments?
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Old 01-10-2005, 10:05 AM   #16
CK02WRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pux888
again the map is specifically for my car. anyone have any useful comments?
The stock ecu starts your car but the Hydra doesn't. The Hydra starts your friends car but not yours. Which means that Hydra works and so does your engine and sensors. Call Phil and if doesn't tell you what Darth and I already said I'll be surprised. Just so you know, I also ran the EJ257 long block with the stock wrx ECU for months waiting on the Hydra. I got my hydra "again the map is specifically for my car" and it wouldn't start. Why? Not enogh fuel in the startup portion of the fuel map.
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Old 01-10-2005, 11:30 AM   #17
pux888
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i called Phil the first time it happened, just thought i might get some help here over the weekend. map has plenty of fuel, was running 10:1 on my buddies car.
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Old 01-10-2005, 01:12 PM   #18
n2xlr8n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pux888
i called Phil the first time it happened, just thought i might get some help here over the weekend. map has plenty of fuel, was running 10:1 on my buddies car.

I think Darth and CK are referring to cranking enrichment, not what the car idles at....but anyway, my vote is for either what they recommended, or the wiring.
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Old 01-10-2005, 03:29 PM   #19
agnes
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What rpm do you see on your laptop when the engine is cranking? Is it a relatively steady 150 - 250 rpm? If you see no rpm, then goto tools->input diagnostic and check if the trig and sync timer numbers are changing on cranking. If either is not changing, then you have a crank (trig) or cam (sync) sensor issue.

If the rpm is a reasonable value, then you must have a fuelling issue.
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Old 01-10-2005, 05:34 PM   #20
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Start with the fundamentals: Are you getting fuel out of the injectors (pull one and crank), and during the cranking are you making a spark (meter)?

Check the MAP sensor (not really used by the stock ECU, but fundamental for the Hydra). Maybe someone can tell him the voltage.

Will the car start with at push start, but not idle? or only idle when warm?, etc? Try a push start (only after you have confirmed fuel and spark).
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:04 AM   #21
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Well, to update this issue. I got his car started today with the Hydra. It started right up...and idled like crap. Since he really needed to pick up his car, I pulled the UTEC out of my car which is tuned for the same injectors as Pux is running. I figured he should at least be able to drive it. The stock ECU with UTEC started up a bit worse than the Hydra...then promptly idled like crap for a couple of minutes and died. We swapped back and forth between the two ECUs a few times, all the while checking for vacuum leaks in the system, still both idled horribly.

Tomorrow I am going to search the map pretty thoroughly and do a very in depth search for vacuum leaks and maybe even pull a sensor or two from the remnants of my car and swap those out. Unfortunately, hooking either computer up to my car is no longer a possibility as my engine has now been pulled out and is currently in a hundred or so pieces around the shop.

I have to admit that with all the phone calls to Phil and all the reading up on the system, I am getting one heck of a crash course in Hydra programming.


Kent
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:06 AM   #22
pux888
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no kidding, trouble shooting 101 huh! lol
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Old 01-12-2005, 01:44 AM   #23
IdenityCrisis
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awsome, i'm glad i ordered my hydra now. hopefully everything turns out ok- IC
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Old 01-12-2005, 09:40 AM   #24
Element Tuning
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Vacuum leaks aren't going to have a major impact during idle using the Hydra as they would if it was a MAF based system so I wouldn't spend much time on that. Unless it's a huge hole

If it's idling really rough (lumpy) check the coil packs.

Thanks,
Phil
www.elementtuning.com
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Old 01-13-2005, 11:01 PM   #25
pux888
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it finally runs. idles like hell, but is so smooth when driving. its great, im so glad im rid of my utec. w/ a bit of work this thing is going to drive better than stock.
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