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Old 01-13-2005, 12:25 PM   #1
rabbitnutz
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Default is my L fast ?

so, i didn't know if many other N/A subies came in here, but maybe some of you other guys could shoot some words of advice. Last summer i took my car to New England Dragway, and ran it a few times. I got a best of the day of 16.5 @ 81 mph

i have a 1998 2.2 L with an automatic tranny. full interior, and a bunch of junk in the trunk and whatnot.

mods were as follows:

wepaon R intake
apexi N1 cat back
unorthodox racing underdrive pulley
grounding kit


so, my basic question is "is my L fast?" i have heard it is very hard for automatics (NA ones) to break the 16 second barrier, this true ?

thanks, Nick.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:33 PM   #2
rallysport02
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16s is deffently not fast.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:48 PM   #3
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not for a high horsepower turbocharged car like a wrx, but for an L- yeah that's pretty fast.

my 2003 rs, completely stock, ran a 16.5 at 82mph my first time ever at a track.

so, for an L, yeah that's fast.
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Old 01-13-2005, 12:51 PM   #4
BrysImpreza
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15.895@86.4 - 1/4 Mile
2.142 - 60 Foot
9.878@68.54 - 1/8 Mile
Impreza L - 1997 - Vehicle
2001-08-29 - Date
Lebanon Valley Dragway - Location

http://www.scoobymile.com/

Removed backseat and passenger seat
Custom 2.5" Intake
Custom 2.25" straight-thru Cat-back
8.5mm plug wires
Apex'i S-AFC
101 Octane
2.2 liter and no NOS
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Old 01-13-2005, 01:12 PM   #5
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bry: your car an automatic ?
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Old 01-13-2005, 01:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabitnutz
bry: your car an automatic ?
Nope, it was a 5 speed, I was just showing that it is possible for the L to brake the 16 sec barrier.
Unload the interior and the crap in your trunk if you wanna hope for lower times, maybe add a header and S-AFC as well, trim off some richness, let the car breathe better at top end and let the automatic tranny do the work for you, I think you'd be hitting 15.9 soon enough.

Also, if you haven't already done so, the stock suspension will cause a little parasitic power loss when the car shifts, if the car is swaying between shifts you're losing valuable time tranferring weight backwards.

I noticed a huge difference in overall acceleration after installing some stiffer springs.

Just my $.02, but I'm not an expert by any means.
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Old 01-13-2005, 01:57 PM   #7
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hrmmm.... yeah a header and highflow cat are on my "soon as i get some $$$" list... never even thought about the weight trasfering back throught the suspension.

i've heard of alot of people using the S-AFC...what's it exactly do ? adjust air/feul ratios during specific RPM ranges ?
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabitnutz
hrmmm.... yeah a header and highflow cat are on my "soon as i get some $$$" list... never even thought about the weight trasfering back throught the suspension.

i've heard of alot of people using the S-AFC...what's it exactly do ? adjust air/feul ratios during specific RPM ranges ?
Yup pretty much, you can adjust your A/F ratio under High and Low throttle in increments of 500rpms (S-AFC I) or 250rpms (S-AFC II). Alot of people will tell you they are "pointless" because the Subaru ECU will learn the settings eventually, but in my opinion, it acts like a cheap "reflash" of sorts. Sure if you drive with the same mods for 6 months, the ECU will pick up what the AFC is putting out, but if you decide you wanna add a header or high flow cat down the line, you can always adjust the S-AFC to compensate for that.

I know Longshot and I both gained some decent HP and Tq when we had Adrenalin motorsports dyno tune our cars after an S-AFC install. Some people say that it doesn't work on MAP based cars, but Longshots car was an 00 RS, so it was MAP based.

Since you have KTR Performance in your area you can always go see Franz and get some dyno time, perfect your fuel map, gain gas mileage, HP and Tq. I say it's win / win, but there's always people who will debate me on this subject.
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:19 PM   #9
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sweet idea. i will definately look into that. i would definately like to make the L even just a little faster, maybe keep up with a stock 5spd RS. headers, highflow cat, maybe another intake (i have heard weapon R's suck) S-AFC, and maybe some other lil goodies will make actually competitave.
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabitnutz
sweet idea. i will definately look into that. i would definately like to make the L even just a little faster, maybe keep up with a stock 5spd RS. headers, highflow cat, maybe another intake (i have heard weapon R's suck) S-AFC, and maybe some other lil goodies will make actually competitave.
With mine running 15.89, I was holding my own with slightly modded RS's

And yes, the Weapon-R Intakes aren't the best, a modified e-bay one with a better filter is an option if you can't afford a Cobb or Injen. Thats what I ran with (modified E-bay cheapo) and the guy who owns my car now still runs it.

The best thing for the intake, have it actually pull cold air from the fender, rather then the hot engine bay
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:52 PM   #11
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i'm sure you can squeeze more from the L with some a/f tuning. Stock ECUs can only compensate so much to adjust to the common bolt ons such as intakes and exhausts. After that, they correct themselves to a certain point making your A/F curve very choppy.
A/F piggybacks have been a long time cost effective in alot of applications,(RX-7s, Supras, example) if ECU reflashing is not an option.

I have a new HKS Super-AFR avaialble if intrested , pm me (shameless plug)
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrysImpreza
Nope, it was a 5 speed, I was just showing that it is possible for the L to brake the 16 sec barrier.
The whole point was because he has an automatic, not a 5 speed. Thats good for an auto.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:17 PM   #13
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I say slap my wrx turbo on it.

Anyone know the ease/difficulty of installing 02 Wrx turbo, intercooler, exhaust manifold, uppipe and tbe onto his 2.2 litre?
I have all this that he could buy cheaper than getting a header, new intake, super afc, high flow cat and springs.
Seems it would be the way to go if you want to go fast cheaply. Ever since the STi's came out the stock wrx parts pricing has fallen off dramatically.
(2nd shameless plug )

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Old 01-13-2005, 04:28 PM   #14
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turbo and maybe upgrade pistons, good head gasket (not sure how much piston/rod/crank can hold) and you will fly in that iirc ~2600 lb car.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:00 PM   #15
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i am not gonna spend alot of money on it anytime soon, as not having a job or any other source of income is not helping that. but a header and a highflow cat is an option which i have researched. and i can't put a WRX header on mycar, because my L's engine is single port.


the next upgrades i am planning on doing to it are spark plug wires, head, high flow cat, EBAY intake, and MAYBE cams, but that's doubtfull.
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:34 PM   #16
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"the next upgrades i am planning on doing to it are spark plug wires, head, high flow cat, EBAY intake, and MAYBE cams, but that's doubtfull."


WOW... Why would you put so much into an NA 2.2L??


For the cost of all this you could darn near have a swap... gather some friends for a DIY install. Thats seems like a lot of money to run 14's down hill with a strong wind.


wepaon R intake
apexi N1 cat back
unorthodox racing underdrive pulley
grounding kit
spark plug wires
head
high flow cat
EBAY intake
MAYBE cams
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Old 01-13-2005, 07:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000wrx
WOW... Why would you put so much into an NA 2.2L??
For the cost of all this you could darn near have a swap... gather some friends for a DIY install. Thats seems like a lot of money to run 14's down hill with a strong wind.
That was my point. Seems like you could put everything on from a WRX at very minimal costs. turbos, intercoolers, full exhausts are going for around $150-200 apiece. And some are way cheaper than that.
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Old 01-13-2005, 08:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
That was my point. Seems like you could put everything on from a WRX at very minimal costs. turbos, intercoolers, full exhausts are going for around $150-200 apiece. And some are way cheaper than that.
But then you have to worry about engine management and a very basic tune at the very minimum, its not cheap to go turbo.
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Old 01-13-2005, 10:07 PM   #19
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i just don't wanna go turbo, it seems like an easy out to me. i thought about it for a while, and i'd either do a full swap of a STi drivetrain, of version V through VIII...or throw money at the L untill i got bored with it. i am more than likely gonna go with a version 6 swap, with RA gears, and whatnot, but i just wanted to see what people thought of my current set up. if i had all the money in the world, i wouldn't do a swap at all, i'd build up the L's engine as much as i could, keeping it a highly modified stock engine. WRX's are nice, and all, but i love my L.
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Old 01-14-2005, 12:31 AM   #20
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i ran a 17.5 in SLC, my buddy next to me in a stock 2.5rs ran a 17.4
i had 5spd 2.2 w/ K&N filter and a 2.1/4 catback...also beat a A4 2.8 w/ chip and catback...i was stolked

so yes ur time is fast...
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us
i ran a 17.5 in SLC, my buddy next to me in a stock 2.5rs ran a 17.4
i had 5spd 2.2 w/ K&N filter and a 2.1/4 catback...also beat a A4 2.8 w/ chip and catback...i was stolked

so yes ur time is fast...

Yeah, my best time in my Outback Sport N/A was 17.3@78mph. Intake, pulley, 2.25" exhaust, Hyper fuel SFC and rebuilt tranny (valvebody added also) and 1999 2.5ltr Legacy GT ECU. Brys trapped almost 10mph faster than I with similar mods. I ran a 15.3@86-89mph with a 50hp-60hp shot of nitrous. It took me the addition of nitrous to get a similar trap speed as Brys.

Brys, how much does your car weigh stock? Any idea what it weighs after removing the items you spoke of earlier? Also, do you happen to know what kind of hp/torque you are putting to the wheels (dyno)?

Oh BTW! My car always ran slower with 100+ octane N/A. Better throttle response but overall it ran slower at the top end. 1/4 mile time would be .02-.04 worse and my trap speed would be reduced up to 2mph.
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Old 01-14-2005, 01:55 AM   #22
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really, the higher octane does that ? is it just you, or do you other guys experiance this also ?

wait- do you have functional catalytic converters ?
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabitnutz
really, the higher octane does that ? is it just you, or do you other guys experiance this also ?
wait- do you have functional catalytic converters ?
Yes, I do have a functional cat converter.

It could be just my experience. You will have some here that'll argue that this octane is just too high. Higher octane fuel is harder to burn and there's nothing that warrants it on our engines unless we have higher compression and/or advanced timing.

There are other's that'll say running higher octane will enable the ECU to take advantage of advancing the timing up to a point where it uses the higher octane without detonating/knocking. The advanced timing will enable the car to make more hp/torque.

My experience is the first one. I tested this on the track with one of my XT6s and my Impreza Outback Sport. Both had the same results. Throttle response increased a good deal but my 1/4 mile time and trap speed was reduced. The only time I'd get a faster 1/4 mile time, trap speed and slightly increased hp/torque on the dyno is when I went from 87 octane to 89 octane. Nothing higher!
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:16 AM   #24
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Kev, I'll get back to you on the dyno numbers, everything I own is in boxes right now (moving this weekend). If I remember correctly I was putting something like 119HP and 137tq to the wheels on a dyno notorious for giving low readings, so to me, I was suprised.

rabit, borla makes single port headers for the 2.2liter, the guy who has my old car got a set installed recently and the car sounds like the devil now. He got them from Nopi.
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Old 01-14-2005, 02:28 PM   #25
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89 octane huh ? i usually run 87, cause i am poor, but once in a while i will put 93 in, to "freshen" it up a bit, and i can tell the throttle response is better as you said, but i can't really tell if it loses top end or not..

Bry: yeah, i definately want some. i am still unsure weather to go highflow cat, or catless wit the header though. is it true that wrapping a borla header voids the warranty ?
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