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Old 12-22-2003, 07:55 PM   #1
umscooby
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Question PPP 2 vs. Cobb 1

Which is better? I'm leaning towards PPP 2 since I already have the muffler and it includes 3rd cat elimator and silcone y-pipe while the Cobb is just a reflash?? Yet I'm hearing Cobb is better how can this be? I've already read everything on this site regarding the PPP 2 and final results seemed to be OK. Any input is appreciated.
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Old 12-22-2003, 08:06 PM   #2
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Wow, just read about Cobb AccessPort and was really impressed, now thinking of ordering one of those along with eliminating restrictive exhaust parts. WOOHOO!
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Old 12-22-2003, 10:04 PM   #3
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skip the PPP2 if you want my opinion. I have it and I am unimpressed. I dyno'd at 195awhp on a mustang dyno. No it's not apples to apples, but that's what Cobb claims for their Stage 1.

$1300 vs. $400 = no comparison in my opinion. I have a 3rd cat eliminator if you want it for $50, but I don't think it makes much of a difference IMO. (I took it off and replaced with TXS stealthback). The muffler is definitely nice, but if you have one already, you'll just further eat your cash. Go with the AccessECU. I'm personally done with the PPP2 and now awaiting the AccessPort in February.

just my .02, others will vary.
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Old 12-22-2003, 10:56 PM   #4
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Thanks Cirrus, I just pre-ordered my AccessPort!! I'm happy with current muffler but what do you think my next exhuast change should be?

Last edited by umscooby; 12-22-2003 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 12-22-2003, 11:45 PM   #5
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I would go with a TXS stealthback and Cobb stage 2 reflash. This is the setup i have and love it.

Jeremy
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:05 AM   #6
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Smile ppp2

Just had ppp2 for 6 weeks. very happy with it.
My auto wrx experenced much less lag. the remaining lag is just right for smooth take off......gear shifting became a lot faster with the ppp2 power. my auto wrx is now extremely drivable.
Very satisfied.
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Old 12-23-2003, 06:04 AM   #7
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I'm happy with the cobb stage 1, gutted 3rd cat, aftermarket muffler, professional ported throttle body, & I/C hoses. Total is around $1000

I asked Cobb and they said all these mods were okay to use with the stage 1.

Last edited by Holypiston; 12-23-2003 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 12-23-2003, 10:05 AM   #8
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CirrusWRX,


With cobb stge 2 + uppipe + ic hoses, my car put down 195hp on a dyno dynamics.

My car wasn't having it's best day, the timing wouldn't advance past 8 even when trying to do the Vishnu reset twice on the dyno.

Another car dynoed right after mine with a cobb stg 2 but he had the 3rd cat in his car. He put down 200hp.

My car hit full boost at 3200rpms and the curve was table top smooth with no spikes. 15.4psi. The other stage 2 car had a spike at around 3000rpm to 16.5psi iirc and the curve didn't look as nice as mine. Might be because he had the oem 3rd cat.

DD and Mustang dynos read really similar numbers right?

If my car was running an advance mulitplier of 16 i might have put down maybe 10 more horses than i did. I probably had a bad tank of gas, but i filled up at shell so i'm not sure. However, for some reason this happens to be the cheapest shell ever. The mobil across the street is always at least .10 cents more expensive. I guess you get what you pay for.
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:10 PM   #9
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Good to know scoobystas - I'm not sure if this reaffirms what I already believe, and that is, for less money you can get similar, if not better performance than the Prodrive packs. I don't feel that "reliability" is any factor in the matter either. I once believed that Prodrive had an edge on the competition as far as "stock drivability" which I no longer believe. Again, these are just MY opinions, YMMV and all that.

But again, MY personal preference for the Cobb Stage 2 = AECU + downpipe + IC hoses = ~$700.00-800.00 and around 200awhp, (though they claim should be more in the realm of 225, but again, I'm not about to open up the can o' worms of comparing dyno numbers...)

PPP2 = around 200awhp for ~$1200+

obviously not direct comparisons, but this is my train of thought, and clearly, there are a few who have the PPP2 and are quite happy with it. But also bear in mind the cost to upgrade. I thought the PPP2 would be enough to satisfy my power needs. Perhaps I overestimated its capabilities, or underestimated what I would be "happy" with, but the bottom line is that with the AECU, if you upgrade FURTHER, you can get a reflash for $20.00, or upgrade to the AccessPort for another $155 and reflash your own ECU whenever you want with any of Cobb's available off-the-shelf maps. With the Prodrive ECU, which is basically ECUTek, you are stuck with it. No trading up. You want a reflash, you either pay somebody to custom dyno tune and pay another $350-700 for the reflash, or you follow the Prodrive upgrade path to their stage 3 which, IMO, is ludicrously expensive.
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Old 12-23-2003, 12:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Good to know scoobystas - I'm not sure if this reaffirms what I already believe, and that is, for less money you can get similar, if not better performance than the Prodrive packs. I don't feel that "reliability" is any factor in the matter either. I once believed that Prodrive had an edge on the competition as far as "stock drivability" which I no longer believe. Again, these are just MY opinions, YMMV and all that.

But again, MY personal preference for the Cobb Stage 2 = AECU + downpipe + IC hoses = ~$700.00-800.00 and around 200awhp, (though they claim should be more in the realm of 225, but again, I'm not about to open up the can o' worms of comparing dyno numbers...)

PPP2 = around 200awhp for ~$1200+

obviously not direct comparisons, but this is my train of thought, and clearly, there are a few who have the PPP2 and are quite happy with it. But also bear in mind the cost to upgrade. I thought the PPP2 would be enough to satisfy my power needs. Perhaps I overestimated its capabilities, or underestimated what I would be "happy" with, but the bottom line is that with the AECU, if you upgrade FURTHER, you can get a reflash for $20.00, or upgrade to the AccessPort for another $155 and reflash your own ECU whenever you want with any of Cobb's available off-the-shelf maps. With the Prodrive ECU, which is basically ECUTek, you are stuck with it. No trading up. You want a reflash, you either pay somebody to custom dyno tune and pay another $350-700 for the reflash, or you follow the Prodrive upgrade path to their stage 3 which, IMO, is ludicrously expensive.

Just wanted to clarify a bit. Anyone that has purchased a Prodrive Power Pack can have their ECU reflashed to anyother other Prodrive Stage without paying for a reflash again. The dealer that does the reflash would set the "maintenance" cost to due the reflash and in many cases this would be for free depending on your relationship with your dealer, or some small nominal fee such as Cobbs $20.

- Rich
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Old 12-23-2003, 02:36 PM   #11
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Rich - just for MY clarification, are you saying that since I have a PPP2 ECU, I can get a "near free" reflash to stage 3 if I "brought my own" uppipe and downpipe, then?
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Old 12-23-2003, 09:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Rich - just for MY clarification, are you saying that since I have a PPP2 ECU, I can get a "near free" reflash to stage 3 if I "brought my own" uppipe and downpipe, then?
good question, anyone know??
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Old 12-24-2003, 02:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by CirrusWRX
Rich - just for MY clarification, are you saying that since I have a PPP2 ECU, I can get a "near free" reflash to stage 3 if I "brought my own" uppipe and downpipe, then?
Yes and no. Prodrive designed their systems around their components and they don't market the flashes as being separate or available to "similiar" setups. That being said, if your ECU was reflashed with a Prodrive reflash, your dealer can upgrade you to Prodrive's Stage III without charging a full reflash price, because the reflash will not eat one of their licenses. The only cost is their time, and they would set the price for that. This isn't an inside secret or anything. It's the first thing I asked before carrying Prodrive Power Packs and I'm pretty sure there is an old thread with Simon at Prodrive mentioning this somewhere as well.

- Rich
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Old 01-25-2004, 05:08 PM   #14
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Going to just relate my story - I was so confused by ^ this as I decided to email Prodrive personally. I am probably not very well liked by them at this time, so I decided to use a fake email and just sent a 'general' email from their website. The response I got back, which I will not repost here, was that this was NOT an option and they do not condone this act.

Not trying to stir up a nest of vipers or anything, but just thought I would be fair and report what I was told. Hopefully, for people looking to upgrade, Daddy's SCP is right on the money and the individual responding to my question was just honestly mistaken.
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Old 01-25-2004, 08:22 PM   #15
NeoteriX
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Cirrus, did you ever get around to writing a full writeup of your experiences with the PPP2? How did you reconcile the fact that your personal trap times/speeds were the same as stock?
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:31 PM   #16
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my prodrive performance pack stage 2 is on its way to be installed cant wait

-Jeff
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:50 PM   #17
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Why did you dig up this old thread just to add nothing to it??
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Old 01-10-2005, 12:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno
Why did you dig up this old thread just to add nothing to it??
Probably for the same reason he dug up about 8 other threads to add the exact same response...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sear...archid=1003013
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Old 01-10-2005, 06:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CirrusWRX
Going to just relate my story - I was so confused by ^ this as I decided to email Prodrive personally. I am probably not very well liked by them at this time, so I decided to use a fake email and just sent a 'general' email from their website. The response I got back, which I will not repost here, was that this was NOT an option and they do not condone this act.

Not trying to stir up a nest of vipers or anything, but just thought I would be fair and report what I was told. Hopefully, for people looking to upgrade, Daddy's SCP is right on the money and the individual responding to my question was just honestly mistaken.
Just to add some clarity here. In order to have a Prodrive Stage 3(from a stage 2) you must have the Prodrive uppipe/downpipe. No Prodrive reseller will reflash to stage 3 with brand X of catless uppipe and a hi-flow downpipe. Prodrive sells a stage 3 upgrade "kit" which includes the uppipe and downpipe and unless this is purchased you cannot move to stage 3, but what you are purchasing is the hardware.

R.
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Old 01-10-2005, 07:41 PM   #20
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sounds like Cobb is easier to do...
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Old 01-10-2005, 08:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy's SCP
Just to add some clarity here. In order to have a Prodrive Stage 3(from a stage 2) you must have the Prodrive uppipe/downpipe. No Prodrive reseller will reflash to stage 3 with brand X of catless uppipe and a hi-flow downpipe. Prodrive sells a stage 3 upgrade "kit" which includes the uppipe and downpipe and unless this is purchased you cannot move to stage 3, but what you are purchasing is the hardware.

R.
Also to clarify, I asked them almost 1 year ago today, so things may be quite a bit different now.

THIS THREAD IS ANCIENT!!! !
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