XEDE tuning questions

antimullet · 01-10-2005, 08:49 PM

This may be general but I'm going off the Xede tuning gui.

When trying to setup larger injectors I'm starting with the MAF map.

Its display is a graph of rpm and Load. Now most maps I see have no input until at least 35% load. So my question is, at idle in neutral I'm in roughly a 500-700 rpm 0 load condition right? So, I'm trying to understand the load column and what exactly it means.

More to the point, if I have PE 850cc injectors and a Green; and an ECUTEK flashed for these mods, but the idle is still real rich and throwing a PO172 CEL (bank one rich), where do I begin removing fuel? Wouldn't it be in the bottom left most column which corresponds to 500 rpm and 5% load?

Can anyone explain please?

No one knows? And Shiv never explains this stuff either???

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antimullet · 01-13-2005, 05:11 PM

Dang no takers huh?

jblaine · 01-13-2005, 05:46 PM

Try over at wrxhackers.com

I think there is even an Xede intro/guide that explains how the Xede defines 'load' for the various maps. I read it somewhere 2 months ago.

WRX_2NR · 01-13-2005, 06:29 PM

Load is the amount of work the engine is doing.

The engine does not need to be managed until the car has enough load.

Once the load condition is enough to control, you will adjust timing, maf, map, and boost at different load points based on rpm range.

A Map is a defined grid. You lay out each map based on load and rpm. The maps have an input, a math function, and a result (output)

The problem I had with Xede was that there is not real guide for setting up maps. Why a certain input effects an output based on the map you set up.

So I got rid of it, too much time learning by myself and possibly messing up my car. It would have been so much easier to have a base map that ran with out problems and self tune, or more people using it.

I see Haltech put out the same unit called "Interceptor" Check out the link, you could possible go to them for help. Its the same unit made in Australia where Xede came from before Shiv brought it to the United States

http://www.haltech.com.au/interceptor.htm

x99percent · 01-14-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimullet

So my question is, at idle in neutral I'm in roughly a 500-700 rpm 0 load condition right?

nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimullet

So, I'm trying to understand the load column and what exactly it means.

Load is whatever you have set it to be for the map you're working with. In the "MAF" map, your load variable is likely set to "MAP In". At idle, your MAP In value is probably 22-25. Verify with the "Live Data Display" in the XMap software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimullet

More to the point, if I have PE 850cc injectors and a Green; and an ECUTEK flashed for these mods, but the idle is still real rich and throwing a PO172 CEL (bank one rich), where do I begin removing fuel? Wouldn't it be in the bottom left most column which corresponds to 500 rpm and 5% load?

If you have XMap connected to the Xede with the car running, you can see exactly what part of the map is currently in use (it's highlighted in yellow).

mnavarro · 01-30-2005, 11:52 AM

ok, I have the same question since antimullet ditched this thing and now I have it. (I have to buy a new harness for it now because the harness was damaged somehow before I got it. We had low input maf voltate, we jimmy rigged it to get it to work.) Loading points are some values going up to 100, but what exactly do those numbers represent given that map is the input. Is it a percentange of atmospheric pressure.

I also am running it on top of ecutek. At zero map many things didn't passthrough well including boost/maf settings. Timing may have been ok. I was getting a dangerous lean condition on the car, when we attempted to tune it on the Gruppe-s dyno. Mike and I decided it wasn't good to learn on a car that was close to the limits already. So I will probably take this to Shiv when he has a wire harness in stock and schedule a tuning session so I can have a good zero map and a race gas map.

antimullet · 01-30-2005, 01:50 PM

I could never get it to see my Laptop so that's why I returned it.

Plus the car would not start, probably cause I couldn't get access to it via the laptop and bump a base map?? Don't know didn't want to risk damage with a questionable wiring setup.

mnavarro · 01-30-2005, 01:57 PM

Well I pm Rao, but he hasn't returned my message yet hopefully he will do something to compensate me for the damaged harness...

x99percent · 01-30-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

ok, I have the same question since antimullet ditched this thing and now I have it. (I have to buy a new harness for it now because the harness was damaged somehow before I got it. We had low input maf voltate, we jimmy rigged it to get it to work.) Loading points are some values going up to 100, but what exactly do those numbers represent given that map is the input. Is it a percentange of atmospheric pressure.

The 0-100% load represents 0-5v. What that 0-5v represents depends on what variable (TPS, MAP, or MAF) you're using for load in that particular map. Remember, the Xede is a universal thing.. not Subaru specific.

For example, this is why you'll never see a value of "0" in XMap if your load variable is TPS... at 0% TPS, the TPS voltage is about 0.9-1.0v

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

I also am running it on top of ecutek. At zero map many things didn't passthrough well including boost/maf settings. Timing may have been ok. I was getting a dangerous lean condition on the car, when we attempted to tune it on the Gruppe-s dyno. Mike and I decided it wasn't good to learn on a car that was close to the limits already. So I will probably take this to Shiv when he has a wire harness in stock and schedule a tuning session so I can have a good zero map and a race gas map.

A blank map *should* allow the car to run as if the Xede wasn't even there.

AFAIK, at the minimum, you have to have a map created for every signal that is passing through the Xede. For a stock STi, that means that you should at least have a map for...
- MAF in, MAF out
- MAP in, MAP out
- BCS in, BCS out

All of those maps can use anything for load (TPS, MAP, or MAF), but they have to be there for the signals to pass through. If all three of those maps are zeroed out, then the car should run as if the Xede wasn't there. If it is not working, I'd be very interested to find out *why*.

Maybe check for any MAF signal scaling options? That would still have an effect, even with a blank map.

mnavarro · 01-30-2005, 06:22 PM

All of the maps had inputs for load, my base map was one for the sti supplied by vishnu's website. I then zeroed out all maps and changed boost from absolute to scale. Boost did not come on as hard and as soon, it felt a little soft. Fuel was getting a lean condition at 5700 and up rpm with zero maf adjustments. Maybe extra resistance in a poor connection cause the lean condition. My input for maf was map, I don't believe any changes were made to scaling. It's about 85-90% there. I've since uninstalled it and I will see what Shiv has got to say about zero maps. I was told that in UTEC when setting to ECU it's a nice passthru with a completely unaltered signal. I asked one of Shiv's workers if the same was with the xede, he said no, that it wasn't completely transparent.

x99percent · 01-30-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

I was told that in UTEC when setting to ECU it's a nice passthru with a completely unaltered signal.

That's true, except for MAP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

I asked one of Shiv's workers if the same was with the xede, he said no, that it wasn't completely transparent.

Interesting... I wonder what's different?

mnavarro · 01-31-2005, 05:15 PM

I will be getting a tune with the xede tomorrow and a new harness. The original seller never returned my email, so I will post something about him in the classified area. antimullet, do you have his phone number? If you could pm me that would great.

antimullet · 02-12-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnavarro

I will be getting a tune with the xede tomorrow and a new harness. The original seller never returned my email, so I will post something about him in the classified area. antimullet, do you have his phone number? If you could pm me that would great.

Any luck man?

mnavarro · 02-12-2005, 11:00 PM

Ha, yeah this turned out to be a nightmare. I go to vishnu, before we decide to put on the xede we did some base lines. My car was not running good or making the power I used to. Something was not right, I didn't know if it was just a difference in the dynos gruppe-s/vishnu but the power was just not there. Shiv helped it out but something was not right. Shiv didn't feel confidant in my harness, the new harness, or the xede unit, so we postphone the race gas tune for a later date. So I looked underneath the car and I noticed I had an up-pipe leak because one of my bolts had fallen out. Got all this fixed and had my old tune applied. Shiv said he would replace my xede with a new unit since it needed a firmware upgrade. I have to go back to replace my unit. At this point I don't know what I should do, I'm thinking street tuner... needless to say this was about a 500 dollar detour and I'm not talking about the xede..

mnavarro · 02-12-2005, 11:06 PM

Also there was some question on whether or not the xede should be 100% passthru when running 0 columns in scale mode. He says they should be completely pasthru. We were not observing this.

01-10-2005, 08:49 PM	#1
antimullet Scooby Specialist Member#: 44193 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Relocated to Raleigh, NC Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi Silver	XEDE tuning questions This may be general but I'm going off the Xede tuning gui. When trying to setup larger injectors I'm starting with the MAF map. Its display is a graph of rpm and Load. Now most maps I see have no input until at least 35% load. So my question is, at idle in neutral I'm in roughly a 500-700 rpm 0 load condition right? So, I'm trying to understand the load column and what exactly it means. More to the point, if I have PE 850cc injectors and a Green; and an ECUTEK flashed for these mods, but the idle is still real rich and throwing a PO172 CEL (bank one rich), where do I begin removing fuel? Wouldn't it be in the bottom left most column which corresponds to 500 rpm and 5% load? Can anyone explain please? No one knows? And Shiv never explains this stuff either??? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by antimullet; 01-11-2005 at 07:33 AM.

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01-13-2005, 05:11 PM	#2
antimullet Scooby Specialist Member#: 44193 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Relocated to Raleigh, NC Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi Silver	Dang no takers huh?

01-13-2005, 05:46 PM	#3
jblaine Scooby Guru Member#: 8512 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: St. Pete, FL Vehicle: 2002 WRX chassis... stage-infinity.com	Try over at wrxhackers.com I think there is even an Xede intro/guide that explains how the Xede defines 'load' for the various maps. I read it somewhere 2 months ago.

01-13-2005, 06:29 PM	#4
WRX_2NR Scooby Newbie Member#: 66763 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toledo, Ohio Vehicle: 04 WRX Silver	Load is the amount of work the engine is doing. The engine does not need to be managed until the car has enough load. Once the load condition is enough to control, you will adjust timing, maf, map, and boost at different load points based on rpm range. A Map is a defined grid. You lay out each map based on load and rpm. The maps have an input, a math function, and a result (output) The problem I had with Xede was that there is not real guide for setting up maps. Why a certain input effects an output based on the map you set up. So I got rid of it, too much time learning by myself and possibly messing up my car. It would have been so much easier to have a base map that ran with out problems and self tune, or more people using it. I see Haltech put out the same unit called "Interceptor" Check out the link, you could possible go to them for help. Its the same unit made in Australia where Xede came from before Shiv brought it to the United States http://www.haltech.com.au/interceptor.htm

01-30-2005, 11:52 AM	#6
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	ok, I have the same question since antimullet ditched this thing and now I have it. (I have to buy a new harness for it now because the harness was damaged somehow before I got it. We had low input maf voltate, we jimmy rigged it to get it to work.) Loading points are some values going up to 100, but what exactly do those numbers represent given that map is the input. Is it a percentange of atmospheric pressure. I also am running it on top of ecutek. At zero map many things didn't passthrough well including boost/maf settings. Timing may have been ok. I was getting a dangerous lean condition on the car, when we attempted to tune it on the Gruppe-s dyno. Mike and I decided it wasn't good to learn on a car that was close to the limits already. So I will probably take this to Shiv when he has a wire harness in stock and schedule a tuning session so I can have a good zero map and a race gas map.

01-30-2005, 01:50 PM	#7
antimullet Scooby Specialist Member#: 44193 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Relocated to Raleigh, NC Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi Silver	I could never get it to see my Laptop so that's why I returned it. Plus the car would not start, probably cause I couldn't get access to it via the laptop and bump a base map?? Don't know didn't want to risk damage with a questionable wiring setup.

01-30-2005, 01:57 PM	#8
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	Well I pm Rao, but he hasn't returned my message yet hopefully he will do something to compensate me for the damaged harness...

01-30-2005, 06:22 PM	#10
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	All of the maps had inputs for load, my base map was one for the sti supplied by vishnu's website. I then zeroed out all maps and changed boost from absolute to scale. Boost did not come on as hard and as soon, it felt a little soft. Fuel was getting a lean condition at 5700 and up rpm with zero maf adjustments. Maybe extra resistance in a poor connection cause the lean condition. My input for maf was map, I don't believe any changes were made to scaling. It's about 85-90% there. I've since uninstalled it and I will see what Shiv has got to say about zero maps. I was told that in UTEC when setting to ECU it's a nice passthru with a completely unaltered signal. I asked one of Shiv's workers if the same was with the xede, he said no, that it wasn't completely transparent.

01-31-2005, 05:15 PM	#12
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	I will be getting a tune with the xede tomorrow and a new harness. The original seller never returned my email, so I will post something about him in the classified area. antimullet, do you have his phone number? If you could pm me that would great.

02-12-2005, 11:00 PM	#14
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	Ha, yeah this turned out to be a nightmare. I go to vishnu, before we decide to put on the xede we did some base lines. My car was not running good or making the power I used to. Something was not right, I didn't know if it was just a difference in the dynos gruppe-s/vishnu but the power was just not there. Shiv helped it out but something was not right. Shiv didn't feel confidant in my harness, the new harness, or the xede unit, so we postphone the race gas tune for a later date. So I looked underneath the car and I noticed I had an up-pipe leak because one of my bolts had fallen out. Got all this fixed and had my old tune applied. Shiv said he would replace my xede with a new unit since it needed a firmware upgrade. I have to go back to replace my unit. At this point I don't know what I should do, I'm thinking street tuner... needless to say this was about a 500 dollar detour and I'm not talking about the xede..

02-12-2005, 11:06 PM	#15
mnavarro Scooby Specialist Member#: 51537 Join Date: Dec 2003 Vehicle: 2004 WRB WRX STI 62 Corvette/11 Cherokee L	Also there was some question on whether or not the xede should be 100% passthru when running 0 columns in scale mode. He says they should be completely pasthru. We were not observing this.