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Old 02-04-2005, 06:03 PM   #76
anders8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanum5
I would severely doubt you can notice such small improvements in downforce at the rear of the car when downforce on a roadcar is an insignificant component in cornering performance compared to mechanical grip.
Relevant story:

I took my 3rd gen RX-7 out for a spin one day and did a high speed run on a very deserted, straight, empty back road. It has a (stock) chin spoiler, and a stock (not large) rear wing.

At about 85 mph I felt the rear squat down, it felt like it lowered about half an inch. At about 100 the steering effort increased as well. (Just the minor corrections for going relatively straight.)

The car definitely had a sudden and noticable "stuck to the road" feeling.

Image of car for those unfamiliar

That wing is much smaller. However, the laminar flow is likely better.

Anders
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Old 02-04-2005, 06:12 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K
IF I had an STi, I would keep my wing on.
How would you know if you're not getting down force? Can you ACTUALLY FEEL anything if someone was sitting on your rear bumper? How DOES 10hp feel?

Can you actually feel lift?

DO YOU THINK THAT THE CUSCO IMPREZA's HUGE REAR CARBON GT WING ADDS DOWNFORCE or is it just for looks? Do you notice how HIGH it sits? The height is because of the rear window. The wing can get a better attack of the air when placed higher on the rear of a car like the Impreza, which has a steep slope rear window.

I felt much more downforce after I added my 555 sticker to my RS. I noticed the 10HP when I added the piggy to my side mirrors
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Old 02-05-2005, 09:01 AM   #78
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nah, those threads are just talk. Im still looking for hard proof. A link to some real data done by real tests showing how much the STI wing affects the car's handling.

At least on this one we got some airflow models showing the theoric downforce produced. And some euro magazine charts showing the Evo and STI (prodrive though)
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Old 02-05-2005, 07:26 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vapore0n
nah, those threads are just talk. Im still looking for hard proof.
Why do you care? Once (if) you receive/find the data, what are you going to do?

Anders
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:39 AM   #80
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Nothing wrong with knowing more information ;D

Has anyone done any simulation on some of the popular wings out there?

S202
S203
Prodrive
APR
Any other wing you want to add
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Old 07-19-2005, 12:27 PM   #81
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+1 for person who took off the spoiler and can't tell a bit of a difference (and has a little education in the topic as well).

Its functional like the blue interior and drilled pedals. OH! and the sweeping needles at startup!
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Old 07-19-2005, 02:23 PM   #82
anders8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD
Its functional like the blue interior and drilled pedals. OH! and the sweeping needles at startup!
I vehemently disagree. I disabled my sweeping needles, and my car is definitely faster.



Anders
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Old 07-19-2005, 02:49 PM   #83
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I love it when people who think they know something about aerodynamics start to chime it.

And while Mike is educated in the subject, he's still making assumptions.

The only way to know for sure about this is to stick the entire stupid thing in a tunnel. Not just the wing itself, the entire back end of the car.

Looking at the wing itself (the upper part of the assembly), it does have an airfoil shape, it is cambered, and has a negative angle of incidence. Now its AOA during driving would be a guess at this point. If somebody wants to stick an AOA vane into the leading of the wing, then drive around at varying speeds, that would be great. AOA and speed are the biggest factors when determining how much downforce its generating. Also, of course I doubt Subaru would release this, is what airfoil shape it is. There is a book that has all the airfoils shapes known to man listed with coefficient of lift diagrams. We could make a pretty good guess by taking measurements.

Now we need to know what the airflow is when it reaches the wing. Because of its height, I'm gonna speculate and say its mostly laminar (the vortex generators on the EVO MR allow the flow to "stick" more to the back window allowing the wing to be lower to still feel the laminar flow). But still my biggest question is what AOA is the wing seeing. That would help alot. So like I said, if someone wants to stick an AOA vane into the leading edge, that would be great.

But that's just the wing. Then we would need to see what the spoiler is doing (the lower part of the wing assembly that's on the trunk). That's a whole different discussion.


IMHO, the wing does very little for everyday driving. Now at the track, where it was more thank likely designed for anyways, I'm sure you'll notice a difference.

-Aerospace Engineering '02 CU Boulder
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:19 PM   #84
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i know t3h a3r0dynam1ks!

I sayzors teh wing is BS!!
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:34 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Lin
i know t3h a3r0dynam1ks!

I sayzors teh wing is BS!!
thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:37 PM   #86
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this discussion is worthless, it's a war that's been fought a million times.

So you're very welcome.

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Old 07-19-2005, 06:38 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Lin
this discussion is worthless, it's a war that's been fought a million times.

So you're very welcome.

I agree its a worthless discussion and it has be discussed ad naseum before

but don't add something worthless just to add to your post count
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:28 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper23
I agree its a worthless discussion and it has be discussed ad naseum before

but don't add something worthless just to add to your post count

Too late!!


When Kia introduces that STi lookalike, I have no doubt the folks who buy those cars will have this same intellectual discussion. Afterall, car engineers would NEVER put something on a car just for looks.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:43 PM   #89
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Watch the water on your spoiler after a wash or in the morning when it is covered in dew. Nothing really happens. If the wing worked even a little Subaru wouldn't have had to put the upper wing on the 06's to push the air down to the wing would they.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:54 PM   #90
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The deck gives the downforce not the top... moron
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Old 07-19-2005, 09:00 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-BOD-
The deck gives the downforce not the top... moron
Here we go again
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Old 07-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi-BOD-
The deck gives the downforce not the top... moron
wth are you talking about..deck?...top?
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:03 AM   #93
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Could someone try driving fast with their STI's trunk unlatched just to see if the downforce will latch the trunk? I'd expect it would latch with quite a bit less than 60 lbs. of force applied.

Or some type of strain gauge, a fixture with a piece of Plastigage or some other deformable material, or some other device attached to the trunk latch? OF course I realize having the treunk up a little will change the AOA but it seems it would increase the down force, if any.

Carl
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:45 AM   #94
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If I want more rear downforce I just put my big ass in the rear seat, will outperform that wing on my STI.

The real reason it is on there is to satisfy California regulations pertaining to all fast cars, specifically calling for a rear view blocking apparatus to hide any law enforcement vehicle that may be behind you.

Took mine off, rode along at 130 and I couldn't tell any difference. I like the look, just don't like the location in my rear view mirror. hwy61
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:48 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper23

but don't add something worthless just to add to your post count
That's easy for you to say Mr Specialist, I wanna be a Specialist too.
Tired of being a noooooob and gettin no respect. hwy61
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:56 AM   #96
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bump for an informative thread.
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:00 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tee_rexx
Something is happening back there cuz the back of my car seems to always to be more dirty than the rest of the car.
yah so does mine...even when there was no spoiler on it....
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:17 AM   #98
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I would never get rid of my STi wing. My car feels more stable at 150mph than it does at 80mph.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:13 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anders8
Why do you care? Once (if) you receive/find the data, what are you going to do?

Anders
a friend of mine had asked me about the wing. I told him its functional. He asked for proof since he claimed it was for show (rice). So I decided to ask the all knowing Nasioc population, see if there is some real data around, not just some people saying "yes its functional"
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:23 AM   #100
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air tumbling behind the car.

Id like to take a ride in a 06 in the rain. See how the new mini spoiler affects air flow. In the 05 model, air is tumbling in the rear windshield/trunk area. Easy to see when there is rain.

Also, all asumptions here on how much the wing works seem to be for a solid wing. The wing we have bounces and flexes. Frequency that it flexes seems to increase as speed is increased, making the wing more stable (or at least look like it is)
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