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Old 01-15-2005, 01:18 AM   #1
ventral
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Default Total Cost of 2.2T

Ok so I have a friend who will sell me his stock turbo and ic. I was wondering how much would it run to make a turbo kit for the 2.2l Impreza?
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Old 01-15-2005, 03:16 AM   #2
speed_freak27
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Check out unique motorsports for your up/downpipe. Find a larger exhaust 2.5"
You will need larger injectors if you've got a 99 your lucky because you can use wrx injectors if not I've got some rc's for sale soon.
Some type of engine management(hydra,link,tec2)
Boost,EGT gauges and all the other little stuff.

If you do proper engine management your probably looking at a few thousand. It's also nice to have money for a new clutch because yours won't last too long.
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Old 01-15-2005, 03:20 AM   #3
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Between $0 and $5000!

Seriously though, on a scale of 1-10, what are you looking for in terms of reliability, 10 being the most reliable? How much are you willing to spend? I mean, depending on how patient you are, you could build a kit for $0. A turbo and intercooler accounts for about 5% of the kit. You still have fuel management, intake, exhaust, tranny, monitoring, hoses, unexpected expenses, etc...

I would suggest asking, generally, what you would need to build a kit for a 2.2l rather than how much. Cost depends on your willingness to be patient and hold out for the best deals. If you donít know the basic components to a turbo kit, then your best bet would be to avoid AFI until you do a tad more reading. Also, provide a little more information about your long term goals and/or intentions or else your just gonna have people tell you to use the search function. Tuning is everything. Anyone can build a kit. Hell, I did it! But keeping the mother running like a charm depends on how willing you are to fork over the dough. Give us some details brother!

-Brett
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Old 01-15-2005, 03:37 AM   #4
speed_freak27
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Just so you know your reliability will be an issue at some point. I just spent about 6k building a new motor because my 01 2.5 has a broken #3 piston. It had about 40k on it turbo'd and was driven very hard but things break. The head gasket issue may be another thing you would have to worry about.
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Old 01-15-2005, 06:32 AM   #5
ChicksDigWagons
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Default I swore I wasn't going to come here anymore...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ventral
Ok so I have a friend who will sell me his stock turbo and ic. I was wondering how much would it run to make a turbo kit for the 2.2l Impreza?

Just so you know, you're treading into somewhat volatile waters. The following expresses my experiences with my 97 2.2 OBS with now ~140k miles, which may or may not completely apply to your 99.

What others have said before is pretty applicable. Expect to pay upwards of $5000 if things don't go right Its taken me at least that much to figure out I could have built what I have now for much, much, much, much less.

IMO, the EJ22 is an excellent platform to build from, seems to suffer from far less of the durability problems under boost that its 2.5L brother has. What this means for the bottom dollar, is you can setup a fairly worry-free forced induction setup on an EJ22 cheaper than most would recommend on a 2.5. I'll breakdown roughly what I'm running on my car at present, and approx costs:

Stock WRX Turbo $200
Stock WRX Intercooler $100
Oil Feed/Drain ~$50
Custom Up/down pipe ~$400
Walbro 255lph pump $100
Apexi S-AFC $300
Turbo XS Type-H BOV $125
Plus a bunch of gauges ~$350

I've been running this setup for a couple years now, with modifications on and off. I run 5psi of boost, stock injectors. In the past I've run Legacy turbo pink top injectors and 10psi, but I like how it runs now much better. I don't feel without stand-alone management I can tune the larger injectors out enough for my tastes.

I built my own up and down pipes, after trying SubaChads from Uniquemotorsports.com. Make no mistake, Chad does a heckuva good job, very solid fabrication - however, I didn't like the placement of the turbo in relation to the stock WRX IC. So I made pipes that placed the turbo in a somewhat stock-WRX like location so the lower Y pipe mates up to the outlet on the turbo. Jake, aka Unsungboxer, as far as I know is still running my first set of pipes.

If I was doing it all over again, I wouldn't buy the S-AFC. Right now its at zero correction and right now for my use its a $300 light-show. At 5psi, the stock ECU has enough correction built into it to compensate. I think on the same note the upgraded fuel pump isn't doing anything for me either. The stock injectors are probably about maxed, and my engine might blow up tomorrow, but for the last 2 years and 25k miles give or take, its been working. In fact, I was doing some logging tonight, in -27F weather, and saw no hints of it leaning out. I've been seeing some positive results from the Greddy E-manage, and I think for the money its the better unit. Though ideally I would like to run stand alone soon.

Now, keep in mind I wouldn't really recomment you jump blindly into something like that. I know the 99 is a different beast, the ECU may respond completely differently. I have had no boost MAP cut up to ~11psi, I think the 99s do cut out. But, in any case, I think a basic setup should be doable for ~$1500, + all the little incidentals nobody remembers to mention that kill you right before payday.

Now, I realize 5psi doesn't seem like a lot, but, it DOES make a significant difference in how the car feels. In fact, I'd wager to bet my car is faster right now at 5psi than it was at 10psi with the larger injectors because of lack of tuning.

There is alot of good knowledge on this forum, even Jake and Alex have their moments Just take every suggestion and comment with a grain of salt - including this one! And you'll figure it out eventually. For pictures of my junk, see www.subaruwagon.com

Cheers,
Brad
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Old 01-15-2005, 05:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicksDigWagons
There is alot of good knowledge on this forum, even Jake and Alex have their moments [/url]

Cheers,
Brad
thanks for the backhanded compliment

(unsung)
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Old 01-15-2005, 06:01 PM   #7
ventral
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Thank you for all of the comments and help. I have been doing some research on the build up of this and am not thinking of doing it in a couple of months, i want reliability so i will take my time and think every thing over befor jumping in to this.
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Old 01-15-2005, 08:38 PM   #8
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you want reliabilty. Don't do it. You will not have even close to stock reliability. Also your budget for a turbo kit should be 5-8K from my experience, after you figure out things don't work and you have broken a bunch of stuff or had to replace other things.

Once you do aftermarket turbo you will spend countless hours setting up the initial setup then many many hours tuning etc. This isn't something to do if you are not ready for the lifestyle of getting dirty and getting stranded, and having to fix things.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:52 AM   #9
ChicksDigWagons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_Drift
you want reliabilty. Don't do it. You will not have even close to stock reliability. Also your budget for a turbo kit should be 5-8K from my experience, after you figure out things don't work and you have broken a bunch of stuff or had to replace other things.

Once you do aftermarket turbo you will spend countless hours setting up the initial setup then many many hours tuning etc. This isn't something to do if you are not ready for the lifestyle of getting dirty and getting stranded, and having to fix things.
I definately agree with this to a point. You really have to take your own situation into account. The reason I run such a bare-bones setup? Because I've already put the 5k into the project, only to find out most of what I did was wrong. Now I'm fairly poor, and can't really afford to put any more dough into it. My next move is definately going to be some sort of timing control if nothing else. From the logging I've done the only thing I don't like is that under full boost my ECU wants to run something 27-32 degrees total advance. Thats at least 10 degrees more than I would like... As far as I'm concerned its the stock ECUs only real crappy limitation for upto ~5psi. However, my car keeps holding on... *crossing fingers!*

I am the first to admit my unorthodox setup could blow up the next time I take my car out. And because I've come to terms with this, I feel comfortable taking my cars life into my own hands. Also consider, I have a spare engine sitting in my garage and the means to install it; plus a few other means of transportation if my car grenades. If you don't have this luxury, think twice or three times or four...
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Old 01-16-2005, 12:42 PM   #10
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicksDigWagons
From the logging I've done the only thing I don't like is that under full boost my ECU wants to run something 27-32 degrees total advance. Thats at least 10 degrees more than I would like... As far as I'm concerned its the stock ECUs only real crappy limitation for upto ~5psi. However, my car keeps holding on... *crossing fingers!*

Why is the timing that the ECU runs considered bad if there is no knocking/detonation? The ECU is supposed to retard timing if it detects knock so I figured it's advanced as far as the ECU sees fit.
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Old 01-16-2005, 05:41 PM   #11
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would it be better/cheaper to do a WRX swap?
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ventral
would it be better/cheaper to do a WRX swap?
Yes! And better reliability, if its your daily driver.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:51 AM   #13
ChicksDigWagons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas
Why is the timing that the ECU runs considered bad if there is no knocking/detonation? The ECU is supposed to retard timing if it detects knock so I figured it's advanced as far as the ECU sees fit.
I'm always one to leave well enough alone, and I think my setup is working exceptionally well considering the circumstances. And I too have thought that if its running this much timing, it must not be knocking. But thats making a large assumption on the knock sensor even working properly. Furthermore, even if its not knocking, that much advance might not be anywhere near ideal from a total engine stress or performance standpoint.

My way of thinking is that the problem in not really the timing itself, its the way the ECU calculates load. From all the evidence I've seen on my car, the indicated load seems to scale about proportionately with the MAP upto ~100kPa. Once boost starts building after that the load scale can't go any higher so it clips off and therein lies the issue.

This is purely speculation of course, based on what I know about the active timing system of the late model turbo subies: If the ECU thinks the engine is under 100% load at 100kPa, which I reach damn near pulling out of my driveway, then its knock learning might be very well thrown off. Because if 99% of the time its reading peak load I'm not under boost and its knocking only under full boost a large percentage of the time - from the ECUs standpoint thats a pretty good ratio and it won't know it needs to correct it further. All it takes is one bad knock to crack a ring land put a hole in a piston.

Keep in mind I'm basing all of this off a number of poorly or non-documented aspects of both my car and the 97 n/a ECU. So don't take it for any more than that.

Really, my short asnwer is: I'd rather be on the safe side timing wise, considering how fringe-tuned my car is. If I had a little most confident feedback from a WBO2, and maybe a supplementary knock sensor and meter, I don't think 27deg would be worrisome.Please feel free to be critical, because I realize this post is full of crap.

For some background mull over this article: http://www.ecutek.com.au/active_ignition.htm

-Brad
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