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Old 01-17-2005, 06:29 PM   #1
JDM_Scobaru
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Default rear disc problem

okay on saturday i did a rear disc brake conversion on my 93 L. I also installed ss brakelines. During the install i accidentally cut a hard line, but i was able to replace it. neways i did the swap, everything went all good untill the end when i started the car and i had no brakes, the car wouldnt stop. No leaks, no drips of any fluid. Some people that saw my car pull away from the lift said that they heard a big "psshhh" sound. A guy said i must of blown the porportioning valve and there isnt any more pressure in the braking system. My friend did the conversion and he still has master cylinder with the valve intact. So i do not know what it could be. My car is dead in the water right now and all the help that i can get is very much appreciated.

Thanks so much,
Zach
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:24 PM   #2
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Default Need more details on the hardline

Can you offer more details on where the hardline was cut & how you replaced it.

It sounds like maybe too much air got into the system and hasn't been completely bled out. It would be difficult to replace a hardline w/o introducing air.

No idea what the sound is though.

Good luck
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:37 PM   #3
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the hardline by the the front left disc. i replaced it with a longer hardline off of a drag race beetle, lol but that was the only part that was at the shop at the time.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:50 PM   #4
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did you bleed the whole brake system after doing the line swap...I'm thinking you may have air in the master cylinder
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:54 PM   #5
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yeah we did, but we also think too that there may be air in the master cylinder. I can try tomorrow to bleed the entire system again, I will drain all the fluid and try again. That is one way of telling if there is a lot of air in the system. if i bleed the whole system and the brakes still dont work then we know that its the lines, piston boots, or etc. that dont work
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:06 PM   #6
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Default If air in the M/C

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Old 01-17-2005, 08:11 PM   #7
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k cool
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:02 PM   #8
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okay so i bled the whole system today and there is still no pedal pressue, absolutely nothing. please help me i cand drive my car and i am stuck

Zach
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:07 PM   #9
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are the calipers on the correct side? the bleeders have to point to the rear i belive.
we had this exact same probelm only it was on the front..we put the calpiers on the wrong side and there were little air bubbles that could not escape..took us 2 days to figure out.
Rick
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobydorift
are the calipers on the correct side? the bleeders have to point to the rear i belive.
we had this exact same probelm only it was on the front..we put the calpiers on the wrong side and there were little air bubbles that could not escape..took us 2 days to figure out.
Rick

yep all calipers are on the right way. All the bleeders point to the rear of the car. Does anybody know anything about porportioning valves? My auto teacher and a couple of other guys say that i might need a new one. Can somebody explain to me that its possible to blow one or wreck one if i was using a porportioning valve for drums brakes instead of a rear disc brake one?

Zach
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:19 PM   #11
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i belive the valve is to make the rear brakes grab just a hair before the fronts do.
but i did not change anything when i did my drum to disc swap..so you should be fine..
Rick
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobydorift
i belive the valve is to make the rear brakes grab just a hair before the fronts do.
but i did not change anything when i did my drum to disc swap..so you should be fine..
Rick

so would i need to get a new valve or not. People also say that i should bench bleed the MC to get air out. Do i need to get any special tools for that?

Zach
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:44 PM   #13
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If you didn't remove the master cylinder, I don't see why you should remove it. I could be wrong, but you should just be able to have someone pump and hold the brake pedal down while you crack open the nuts on the hard brake lines running to the MC. Repeat as needed. Either you will see/hear bubbles or straight fluid will come out. Surely, when you are bleeding, you are making sure to keep the MC full?

This weekend I replaced a hard brake line above the gas tank on an '86 Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Bled everything, master cylinder, all 4 corners of the brakes, but the pedal was still mushy. So, I was just snooping around looking for leaks and found one more bleeder valve near the right rear of the truck and after bleeding that, all was good. This was not mentioned in the Haynes Manual, and I don't know what it was. Maybe some type of booster or something. Maybe you are experiencing this. Nonetheless, good luck.


-Charles-
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:47 PM   #14
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thats what we did and no bubbles came out just straight fluid

zach
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:50 PM   #15
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yah and we are keeping the MC full of fluid too
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:19 PM   #16
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bump this to the top
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:38 PM   #17
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bump!!
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Old 01-20-2005, 12:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImprezaVA
If you didn't remove the master cylinder, I don't see why you should remove it. I could be wrong, but you should just be able to have someone pump and hold the brake pedal down while you crack open the nuts on the hard brake lines running to the MC. Repeat as needed. Either you will see/hear bubbles or straight fluid will come out. Surely, when you are bleeding, you are making sure to keep the MC full?

This weekend I replaced a hard brake line above the gas tank on an '86 Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Bled everything, master cylinder, all 4 corners of the brakes, but the pedal was still mushy. So, I was just snooping around looking for leaks and found one more bleeder valve near the right rear of the truck and after bleeding that, all was good. This was not mentioned in the Haynes Manual, and I don't know what it was. Maybe some type of booster or something. Maybe you are experiencing this. Nonetheless, good luck.


-Charles-
we bleed the MC this way is this any less effective than bench bleeding?
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Old 01-20-2005, 06:34 PM   #19
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I am pretty sure the brake booster is fine
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Old 01-20-2005, 08:28 PM   #20
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Default bleeders

When you say that the bleeders are pointing towards the rear of the car, should'nt they be pointing upwards? All OE brake bleeders for our subaru brakes point rearward, but if you put them on upside down and on the wrong side, then they end up on the lower part of the caliper (no air gets out) instead of on the upper half.

I only mention this because the bleeders point backwards whether they are upside-down or right-side up. But they point up, and are top-side if installed correctly. They will also be inboard, and harder to get to. I suppose Subaru or Tokico feel they are less likely to get damaged back there.

BTW: have you tried a camera for photos? and posting the link? Maybe someone on the boards could have spotted something.

Last edited by tbd; 01-20-2005 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:03 PM   #21
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yeah i am 99.9% sure that the calipers are on the right way, we can take pictures tomorrow though if we must, and maybe somebody could spot something.

Zach
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Old 01-22-2005, 03:56 PM   #22
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Hopefully you got the system bleed and everything is working correctly. However, just removing a brake line doesn't warrant having to remove the MC and bench bleeding it.

The other day, I was talking about the proportioning valve, not the brake booster under the hood. I couldn't think of the term for it. Some vehicles have this valve built into the MC while others, like our Subaru, is external to the master cylinder.

Let us know how things worked out.

-Charles-
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Old 01-22-2005, 05:04 PM   #23
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I have a proportioning valve off of an 02 wrx for $30 shipped if you need it.

Cam
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Old 01-22-2005, 05:07 PM   #24
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Yeah ill let you guys know how things work out, the worst possible case is that i give it to a brake shop. I tried everything so far that i can do. I am awaiting for some front brake pads. Ill change those, then give my car to a shop.

Zach
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Old 01-23-2005, 12:31 AM   #25
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I just realize that adjustable proportioning valves exist out there so it wouldn't matter what so ever if the rear is getting mroe or less power to the brakes I think I feel safe to say it isn't hte proportioning valve... i'm going to talk to my friend rich who races in ASA maybe he can give me some input
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