After these mods, what ECU management could be done?

AWDrifter21 · 01-18-2005, 11:38 AM

A few questions for you experienced guys who have dealt with and done this before.

I have a 2004 WRX no engine mods as of now.

I will be getting a catback exhaust shortly and an intake, just a short ram and maybe a atmospheric BOV (free from friend).

uppipe and downpipe are still in question as I am debating on getting uppipe and downpipe with or without cats. but I will still be getting the catback, intake and atmospheric bov though.

with those 3 mods, what ECU management could I do?
reflash possible? or what are my other options with basic bolt ons?

I know with atmospheric BOV it will run rich, so would ECU management correct this? please clarify and give me as much detail as possible, thank you~

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

mbiker97 · 01-18-2005, 12:15 PM

Accessport may work for you. The catback without a downpipe is just a noise adder. Check to see if they have maps for the intake on a stock car.

The BOV only causes your car to run rich for that split second inbetween shifts when it blows off. It does NOT cause the car to run rich during WOT or cruising. You can't tune for it either as long as you stay with a MAF based setup.

jlee8196 · 01-18-2005, 12:16 PM

You need a MAP based map to run the Open air Bov.
I Wouldn't get short ram intake, not unless you have FMIC. do search, You'll find stock box is very good. I don't think cat-back does much, as there are 3 cats not removed in uppipe and downpipe.
Save you money on Bov and short, Get a complete turbo back.
Go with Utec for EMS. That'll give you a stage 2 car. +35hp I believe.
Reflesh are good too, but you'll need to reflesh after ever new mod.
And I think you'll be adding new mod later.

AWDrifter21 · 01-18-2005, 01:16 PM

dang..... I thought catback would assist a little... sure the cats are still there, but money is low at the moment.
I dont want to be out of topic or in the wrong thread, but answering this question will assist in my future engine tuning.
I plan on getting the Espelir JGT500 exhaust, what catback would fit WITHOUT LEAK.
after this I will plan on some engine tuning after this issue of downpipe now.

bofh · 01-18-2005, 08:02 PM

The 04 has major issues with the OL/CL delay. Get some engine management first. Even if you can afford nothing else. If the cash is tight, punch out the up pipe cat. A third cat eliminator is cheap as well. If money is tight, don't waste it on a BOV and a CAI or cat back. They are more flash than go, and in the case of the CAI, can actually hurt performance.

AWDrifter21 · 01-18-2005, 08:24 PM

a third cat eliminator?
I wont waste the money on BOV or intake or catback... but if I get engine management, it wil quite a while before I get mods.
PLUS, the only mods i want to do is just uppipe, downpipe and exhaust.
and boost controller..... upgrading turbo, etc... that quite far in the future as I have other priorities. I just want to do basic mods, but confused about engine management.

antimullet · 01-18-2005, 08:40 PM

A atmospheric BOV is for ricers. Keep the stocker, idle and run correctly, and get a downpipe instead.

A downpipe is a real nice improvement and in your cas an uppipe. Get rid of the cats, increase VE, let it breath. Get a catback after, if you can afford.

mcowger · 01-18-2005, 08:41 PM

The EM will give you some good power to start with (with no mods)...around 25HP (maybe a bit more). Then, as your mods come (UP, DP, Catback), you can use the EM to get all the power out of them that you can. Without the EM, the turbo/exsuat stuff wont do all that it can.

bofh · 01-20-2005, 06:59 PM

If you get the exhaust without engine management, you risk your engine substantially. If you get a boost controller, you risk your engine greatly. Besides, engine management will regulate your boost.

AWDrifter21 · 01-20-2005, 10:17 PM

Thanks guys for all you advice... but I cant afford engine management like UTEC for quite some time.. but I could afford a catback and intake... basic mods.....
and maybe a downpipe I can get...

also I want a boost controller because of its functionallity and ease of quickly adjusting settings as with the UTEC, I doubt you can change settings while at the track or while driving. Sure EM can adjust boost, but through a laptop or something else.. not on the fly. thats my preference.

JRSCCivic98 · 01-20-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWDrifter21

Thanks guys for all you advice... but I cant afford engine management like UTEC for quite some time.. but I could afford a catback and intake... basic mods.....
and maybe a downpipe I can get...

also I want a boost controller because of its functionallity and ease of quickly adjusting settings as with the UTEC, I doubt you can change settings while at the track or while driving. Sure EM can adjust boost, but through a laptop or something else.. not on the fly. thats my preference.

Dude, seriously, go to http://www.cobbtuning.com/ and read up on the AccessPort they offer. You can't do boltons on 04+ cars without proper EM first. There are major ECU issues with CL/OL delays in fueling on the 04+ cars that really need to be fixed first. The AP is only $595. When you take the cost of catback, intake, and electronic boost controller into account you actually come out cheaper. With your car stock and running a stage 1 map with the AP you will have about 260hp at the crank compared to the stock 227, not to mention a smoother powerband. You can change maps on the fly also just like you want, but more then likely you may not need to. Running a boost controller with boltons on a WRX is going to kill your motor in the long run. If your money is tight now, I'd suggest doing all the reading you can on both this site and Cobb's site when it comes to aftermarket parts and electronics. Seriously, don't dive into this without further reading. You really need to learn a few things... just so that you don't kick yourself later on when you have to pay to replace your motor. If you had an 02-03 WRX you would be a little safer in the bolton market, but 04+ cars really need Engine Management first. You're going to see way more power from EM on a stock car then you would with the boltons you mentioned.

johsti · 01-20-2005, 11:02 PM

Skip the intake, bov and catback if money is a concern and you want some power. Buy a used downpipe, and get an accessport. Flash your ecu to stage 2, and get an extra 40 whp or more for around $800 or less. You would be lucky if you gain any horsepower on a stock car with a shortram, bov, catback.

AWDrifter21 · 01-20-2005, 11:12 PM

Cobbtuning was an interest to me.. but what do you guys think about UTEC by TurboXS ? of course opinions are opinoiins, but I would like to hear them..
thanks~

JRSCCivic98 · 01-20-2005, 11:28 PM

If you've never tuned a vehicle EM don't get a UTEC. UTECs are piggyback systems that try to intercept the signals from the engine and try to fool the stock ecu into thinking it's something else. Piggybacks are the worse systems to get in my opinion, doesn't matter how much power it puts out. You will constantly be changing settings on the UTEC to get it to run perfect all the time. Get a flash of some kind for your ECU. Either get an AP to flash your ECU with Cobb's AccessEcu technology or get an EcuTek dealer to flash your ecu with EcuTek's technology. Flash type setups are way smoother and put out the same power if not better and more reliable. The tuner is the key here.

AWDrifter21 · 01-20-2005, 11:47 PM

Where can I find EcuTek dealers?

and when you say EcuTek... its all the same, right? Cobb, AP and EcuTek ???

johsti · 01-20-2005, 11:48 PM

I think Accessport is the way to go until you get all the mods you want on your car. It's an off the shelf map that is tuned conservatively for different setups, and it's the least expensive. You don't want to pay for a tune everytime you put on a new part to get every ounce of power out of it. Once you get all the hardware on your car and you're done modding, then go get a custom tune like ecutek. That is what I would do if you're on a budget and you want some more power sooner than later. Maybe by then street tuner and protuner will be out and you can get a custom tune with that.

mbiker97 · 01-21-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWDrifter21

Where can I find EcuTek dealers?

and when you say EcuTek... its all the same, right? Cobb, AP and EcuTek ???

AP (Access Port) = Cobb

ECUtek is from a different company.

They are both reflashes, but work a little differently. ECUtek can be tuned by any tuner that owns a ECUtek tuner. Cobb reflashes can't really be custom tuned.

AWDrifter21 · 01-21-2005, 10:31 AM

thanks for your assistance guys.
i know there are hundreds of threads on Cobb, ECUtek and others.. but thats the point.. there are too many, but thanks for answering these simple questions.

Ok.... so Access Port might seem the most cost effectiveness for me as of now.
but here is what I will be doing.
1. Cat-back
2. intake

but now 2 questions
A.)I was reading abotu Cobb and that they can tune their maps for only CERTAIN intakes.
could I or should I just call up Cobb and ask them which intake I could use that they have maps for?
B.) Would Cobbs accessport adjust boost as well ? My friend might give me his AVC-R or his Blitz SBC-ID... could I use a EBC with Accessport or EcuTek in the future?

thanks agian ^^

bofh · 01-21-2005, 05:53 PM

Why are you doing intake? It will not add power. (Until you get in the 400-500hp range) It will make tuning much harder. (And you are not a tuning expert) That said (by myself and many others) why do you want an intake?

AWDrifter21 · 01-21-2005, 05:58 PM

intake for a few reasons...
ive seen dyno # on almost stock WRXs and ST's that the intakes add decent power with catback and/or downpipe..... dynos from magazines from modified mag, superstreet, Dsport, Import tuner, sport compact car, etc.

Sure the stock intake is sufficient enough, but since I have a few bucks to spare on a decent intake.... why not.

awilson529 · 01-21-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWDrifter21

intake for a few reasons...
ive seen dyno # on almost stock WRXs and ST's that the intakes add decent power with catback and/or downpipe..... dynos from magazines from modified mag, superstreet, Dsport, Import tuner, sport compact car, etc.

Sure the stock intake is sufficient enough, but since I have a few bucks to spare on a decent intake.... why not.

Did you see any A/F graphs to go along with those dyno graphs?
The intake leans the a/f out... Voila, HP/Tq gains.

JRSCCivic98 · 01-21-2005, 11:10 PM

Forget it... People just don't want to listen. He obviously doesn't want to spend the time reading up on stuff prior to modding. Do you know how long I spend doing research on the car and it's aftermarket capability prior to even buying a WRX? More then 6+ months! Do your research bro... in the end you'll be happy you did. Trust me on this one.

ADR 04STi · 01-21-2005, 11:33 PM

Get a AP. thank me.

awilson529 · 01-22-2005, 12:28 AM

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=pulley+faq

Read all of it. Every bit. Then you are allowed to mod.

01-18-2005, 11:38 AM	#1
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	After these mods, what ECU management could be done? A few questions for you experienced guys who have dealt with and done this before. I have a 2004 WRX no engine mods as of now. I will be getting a catback exhaust shortly and an intake, just a short ram and maybe a atmospheric BOV (free from friend). uppipe and downpipe are still in question as I am debating on getting uppipe and downpipe with or without cats. but I will still be getting the catback, intake and atmospheric bov though. with those 3 mods, what ECU management could I do? reflash possible? or what are my other options with basic bolt ons? I know with atmospheric BOV it will run rich, so would ECU management correct this? please clarify and give me as much detail as possible, thank you~ * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by AWDrifter21; 01-21-2005 at 10:31 AM.

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01-18-2005, 12:15 PM	#2
mbiker97 Scooby Guru Member#: 7922 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Tucson Vehicle: 04 CTS-V b/b/b 99 GMC Highrider	Accessport may work for you. The catback without a downpipe is just a noise adder. Check to see if they have maps for the intake on a stock car. The BOV only causes your car to run rich for that split second inbetween shifts when it blows off. It does NOT cause the car to run rich during WOT or cruising. You can't tune for it either as long as you stay with a MAF based setup.

01-18-2005, 12:16 PM	#3
jlee8196 Scooby Newbie Member#: 22211 Join Date: Jul 2002	You need a MAP based map to run the Open air Bov. I Wouldn't get short ram intake, not unless you have FMIC. do search, You'll find stock box is very good. I don't think cat-back does much, as there are 3 cats not removed in uppipe and downpipe. Save you money on Bov and short, Get a complete turbo back. Go with Utec for EMS. That'll give you a stage 2 car. +35hp I believe. Reflesh are good too, but you'll need to reflesh after ever new mod. And I think you'll be adding new mod later.

01-18-2005, 01:16 PM	#4
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	dang..... I thought catback would assist a little... sure the cats are still there, but money is low at the moment. I dont want to be out of topic or in the wrong thread, but answering this question will assist in my future engine tuning. I plan on getting the Espelir JGT500 exhaust, what catback would fit WITHOUT LEAK. after this I will plan on some engine tuning after this issue of downpipe now.

01-18-2005, 08:02 PM	#5
bofh Scooby Specialist Member#: 59287 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 2007 WRB WRX 2004 WRB WRX (RIP)	The 04 has major issues with the OL/CL delay. Get some engine management first. Even if you can afford nothing else. If the cash is tight, punch out the up pipe cat. A third cat eliminator is cheap as well. If money is tight, don't waste it on a BOV and a CAI or cat back. They are more flash than go, and in the case of the CAI, can actually hurt performance.

01-18-2005, 08:24 PM	#6
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	a third cat eliminator? I wont waste the money on BOV or intake or catback... but if I get engine management, it wil quite a while before I get mods. PLUS, the only mods i want to do is just uppipe, downpipe and exhaust. and boost controller..... upgrading turbo, etc... that quite far in the future as I have other priorities. I just want to do basic mods, but confused about engine management.

01-18-2005, 08:40 PM	#7
antimullet Scooby Specialist Member#: 44193 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Relocated to Raleigh, NC Vehicle: 2008 WRX STi Silver	A atmospheric BOV is for ricers. Keep the stocker, idle and run correctly, and get a downpipe instead. A downpipe is a real nice improvement and in your cas an uppipe. Get rid of the cats, increase VE, let it breath. Get a catback after, if you can afford.

01-18-2005, 08:41 PM	#8
mcowger Scooby Specialist Member#: 77483 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Seattle, WA Vehicle: 2009 Audi A3 2.0T q Lava Grey	The EM will give you some good power to start with (with no mods)...around 25HP (maybe a bit more). Then, as your mods come (UP, DP, Catback), you can use the EM to get all the power out of them that you can. Without the EM, the turbo/exsuat stuff wont do all that it can.

01-20-2005, 06:59 PM	#9
bofh Scooby Specialist Member#: 59287 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 2007 WRB WRX 2004 WRB WRX (RIP)	If you get the exhaust without engine management, you risk your engine substantially. If you get a boost controller, you risk your engine greatly. Besides, engine management will regulate your boost.

01-20-2005, 10:17 PM	#10
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	Thanks guys for all you advice... but I cant afford engine management like UTEC for quite some time.. but I could afford a catback and intake... basic mods..... and maybe a downpipe I can get... also I want a boost controller because of its functionallity and ease of quickly adjusting settings as with the UTEC, I doubt you can change settings while at the track or while driving. Sure EM can adjust boost, but through a laptop or something else.. not on the fly. thats my preference.

01-20-2005, 11:02 PM	#12
johsti Scooby Specialist Member#: 36049 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: San Jose Vehicle: 2004 WRX wagon Silver	Skip the intake, bov and catback if money is a concern and you want some power. Buy a used downpipe, and get an accessport. Flash your ecu to stage 2, and get an extra 40 whp or more for around $800 or less. You would be lucky if you gain any horsepower on a stock car with a shortram, bov, catback.

01-20-2005, 11:12 PM	#13
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	Cobbtuning was an interest to me.. but what do you guys think about UTEC by TurboXS ? of course opinions are opinoiins, but I would like to hear them.. thanks~

01-20-2005, 11:28 PM	#14
JRSCCivic98 Scooby Specialist Member#: 67080 Join Date: Jul 2004	If you've never tuned a vehicle EM don't get a UTEC. UTECs are piggyback systems that try to intercept the signals from the engine and try to fool the stock ecu into thinking it's something else. Piggybacks are the worse systems to get in my opinion, doesn't matter how much power it puts out. You will constantly be changing settings on the UTEC to get it to run perfect all the time. Get a flash of some kind for your ECU. Either get an AP to flash your ECU with Cobb's AccessEcu technology or get an EcuTek dealer to flash your ecu with EcuTek's technology. Flash type setups are way smoother and put out the same power if not better and more reliable. The tuner is the key here.

01-20-2005, 11:47 PM	#15
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	Where can I find EcuTek dealers? and when you say EcuTek... its all the same, right? Cobb, AP and EcuTek ???

01-20-2005, 11:48 PM	#16
johsti Scooby Specialist Member#: 36049 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: San Jose Vehicle: 2004 WRX wagon Silver	I think Accessport is the way to go until you get all the mods you want on your car. It's an off the shelf map that is tuned conservatively for different setups, and it's the least expensive. You don't want to pay for a tune everytime you put on a new part to get every ounce of power out of it. Once you get all the hardware on your car and you're done modding, then go get a custom tune like ecutek. That is what I would do if you're on a budget and you want some more power sooner than later. Maybe by then street tuner and protuner will be out and you can get a custom tune with that.

01-21-2005, 10:31 AM	#18
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	thanks for your assistance guys. i know there are hundreds of threads on Cobb, ECUtek and others.. but thats the point.. there are too many, but thanks for answering these simple questions. Ok.... so Access Port might seem the most cost effectiveness for me as of now. but here is what I will be doing. 1. Cat-back 2. intake but now 2 questions A.)I was reading abotu Cobb and that they can tune their maps for only CERTAIN intakes. could I or should I just call up Cobb and ask them which intake I could use that they have maps for? B.) Would Cobbs accessport adjust boost as well ? My friend might give me his AVC-R or his Blitz SBC-ID... could I use a EBC with Accessport or EcuTek in the future? thanks agian ^^

01-21-2005, 05:53 PM	#19
bofh Scooby Specialist Member#: 59287 Join Date: Apr 2004 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Houston, Tx Vehicle: 2007 WRB WRX 2004 WRB WRX (RIP)	Why are you doing intake? It will not add power. (Until you get in the 400-500hp range) It will make tuning much harder. (And you are not a tuning expert) That said (by myself and many others) why do you want an intake?

01-21-2005, 05:58 PM	#20
AWDrifter21 Scooby Specialist Member#: 51112 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 2004 WRX-sold T_T now 2005 STi ^^	intake for a few reasons... ive seen dyno # on almost stock WRXs and ST's that the intakes add decent power with catback and/or downpipe..... dynos from magazines from modified mag, superstreet, Dsport, Import tuner, sport compact car, etc. Sure the stock intake is sufficient enough, but since I have a few bucks to spare on a decent intake.... why not.

01-21-2005, 11:10 PM	#22
JRSCCivic98 Scooby Specialist Member#: 67080 Join Date: Jul 2004	Forget it... People just don't want to listen. He obviously doesn't want to spend the time reading up on stuff prior to modding. Do you know how long I spend doing research on the car and it's aftermarket capability prior to even buying a WRX? More then 6+ months! Do your research bro... in the end you'll be happy you did. Trust me on this one.

01-21-2005, 11:33 PM	#23
ADR 04STi Scooby Specialist Member#: 51918 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: UpState,NY Vehicle: 2011 STI Sedan Wbody Dk Gry Met:"BOOOSTI"	Get a AP. thank me.

01-22-2005, 12:28 AM	#24
awilson529 Scooby Specialist Member#: 38867 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Houston, Tx. Vehicle: 11 Mazda	http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=pulley+faq Read all of it. Every bit. Then you are allowed to mod.