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Old 01-21-2005, 12:22 AM   #1
scooby24
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Location: Olathe, KS
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2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default I know i'm going to get flamed but Intake question

Kay I've got a GPmoto short ram on my STi with Utec stage 2. Well I've noticed that even with maps made for my octane I can't run them because I get DET.

I'm running around 22.5 degrees towards redline and that seems to be the most I can take it without Knock. I raced another Stage 2 STi with cobb and he pulled on me top end...I'm guess because the lower timing.

I've heard you can lose as much as 10 hp for every degree of timing you drop so I really would love to run as much timing as possible. Does anyone with experience tuning an sti with an intake know if the intake could be causing the inability to run higher timing?

Please no flames. Let's keep this mature. I'm fully aware that people don't like the intakes and I will remove it if I know I'm losing power because of it.

Advice por favor? I can throw out my map if anyone would like to see it.

Thanks in advance

-Greg

Edit: for future reference here are the exact mods

1) Invidia Catless TBE
2) GPMoto short ram
3) Greddy Type-S Recirculating BOV
4) Smoothed wastegate
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:39 AM   #2
kool168
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby24
Kay I've got a GPmoto short ram on my STi with Utec stage 2. Well I've noticed that even with maps made for my octane I can't run them because I get DET.

I'm running around 22.5 degrees towards redline and that seems to be the most I can take it without Knock. I raced another Stage 2 STi with cobb and he pulled on me top end...I'm guess because the lower timing.

I've heard you can lose as much as 10 hp for every degree of timing you drop so I really would love to run as much timing as possible. Does anyone with experience tuning an sti with an intake know if the intake could be causing the inability to run higher timing?

Please no flames. Let's keep this mature. I'm fully aware that people don't like the intakes and I will remove it if I know I'm losing power because of it.

Advice por favor? I can throw out my map if anyone would like to see it.

Thanks in advance

-Greg

Edit: for future reference here are the exact mods

1) Invidia Catless TBE
2) GPMoto short ram
3) Greddy Type-S Recirculating BOV
4) Smoothed wastegate
try add more fuel?
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:50 AM   #3
blinguskahn
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STi 05 8cm FPRed
WRX 06 Blue FP20G

Default

It could be that you are det because you are running too lean.
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:19 AM   #4
scooby24
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2004 Forester XT 5MT
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Default

AFR's are perfect...little rich if anything.

Did a 4th gear pull from 3k and AFR's were below 11:1 the entire way to redline. I think I'm going to put on the stock intake and retune and see if I can't get the timing up a couple degrees safely. The main problem I experienced earlier was shift knock so I had to retard the timing right around 5200 rpms after the shift but I've since taken care of the problem by adding fuel at 0% TPS and 5000 to 7000 RPMS.

Meh....I'll let you guys know what I find out.
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:32 AM   #5
Unabomber
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Default

Moving..........when will you guys learn? Tuning is engine management, not 2.5L technical.
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:56 AM   #6
scooby24
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Default

Sorry...thought maybe this was STi specific..?
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Old 01-21-2005, 09:12 AM   #7
mbiker97
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Default

Do you have logs? Those are the most useful thing for us to help.

What is a smothered wastegate?
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Old 01-21-2005, 09:33 AM   #8
scooby24
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbiker97
Do you have logs? Those are the most useful thing for us to help.

What is a smothered wastegate?

Smoothed wastegate...I like using that term because ported wastegate goes more along the lines of opening the wastegate opening...


No saved logs yet but I will get some tonight after I play with the timing.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:31 PM   #9
hippy
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2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

Imo, if your a/f ratios are normal the intake most likely isn't the prob(if there is a prob). Also, ya don't usually have to retard timing in higher load areas to stop shift knock. This means that the shift knock shouldn't have effected how hard your car pulls at boost. How about posting your timing map? I know you listed your exact mods, but I mine as well ask. Do you have non-stock spark plugs? On another note, from what I hear the txs maps(non octane challenged) are made on 94 octane. If ya run 93 octane, it would make sense that your engine might det on a basemap(assuming that you're running a utec).

peace
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:37 PM   #10
scooby24
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2004 Forester XT 5MT
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy
Imo, if your a/f ratios are normal the intake isn't the prob(if there is a prob). Also, ya don't usually have to retard timing in higher load areas to stop shift knock. This means that the shift knock shouldn't have effected how hard your car pulls at boost. How about posting your timing map? I know you listed your exact mods, but I mine as well ask. Do you have non-stock spark plugs?

peace

Spark plugs are stock although may be slightly fouled due to rich condition that a stock STi creates. I don't know how long it takes to foul em up.

Here is my fuel and timing maps:

Code:
Fuel Map
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [3]      [3]    [3.7]      [4]      [3]      [3]      [3]       [3]      [3]      [3]
      [0]    [2.9]    [2.9]    [4.3]    [4.5]      [4]      [4]      [4]       [4]      [4]      [4]
      [0]    [2.7]    [2.7]    [4.1]    [4.5]    [4.9]    [4.3]    [4.3]     [4.3]    [4.3]    [4.3]
      [0]    [3.4]    [3.4]    [4.1]    [4.5]      [5]    [4.3]    [4.6]     [4.6]    [4.6]    [4.6]
      [0]    [1.3]    [1.3]    [2.2]    [2.9]      [3]    [3.3]    [3.8]       [4]    [4.1]    [4.1]
      [0]    [0.8]    [0.8]    [1.7]    [2.4]    [2.5]    [3.8]    [4.3]     [4.5]    [4.6]    [4.6]
      [0]    [0.2]    [0.2]    [1.1]    [1.4]    [2.5]    [3.8]    [4.3]     [4.5]    [4.6]    [4.6]
      [0]    [0.9]    [0.9]    [1.8]    [2.1]    [2.8]    [4.1]      [4]       [4]    [4.1]    [4.1]
      [0]    [0.9]    [0.9]    [1.6]    [1.9]    [2.6]    [3.9]    [3.8]     [3.8]    [3.9]    [3.9]
      [0]    [0.7]    [0.7]    [1.4]    [1.7]    [2.2]    [3.7]    [3.9]     [3.9]      [4]      [4]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.1]    [0.6]    [0.9]      [2]      [3]      [3]       [3]    [3.1]    [3.2]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.1]    [0.6]    [0.9]      [2]      [3]    [3.3]     [3.3]    [3.4]    [3.5]
      [0]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]    [0.4]    [0.7]    [1.8]    [2.4]    [2.7]     [2.3]    [2.4]    [2.5]
      [0]   [-1.2]   [-1.2]    [0.1]    [1.1]    [0.9]    [0.3]    [0.4]     [0.4]    [0.6]    [0.6]
      [0]     [-1]     [-1]    [0.3]    [1.3]    [0.6]    [0.6]    [0.6]     [0.8]    [0.8]    [0.8]
      [0]   [-0.1]   [-0.4]    [0.3]    [1.3]    [1.3]    [1.3]    [1.2]     [1.3]    [0.9]    [1.3]
    [0.3]   [-0.4]   [-0.4]    [0.3]    [1.6]    [1.6]    [1.6]    [1.2]     [1.7]    [1.7]    [1.7]
    [0.5]   [-0.6]   [-0.6]    [0.1]    [1.4]    [1.4]    [1.4]      [1]     [1.5]    [1.5]    [1.5]
    [0.5]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]    [0.4]    [1.7]    [1.7]    [1.5]      [1]     [1.6]    [1.7]    [1.7]
    [0.5]   [-0.3]   [-0.3]    [0.4]    [1.1]    [1.1]    [0.9]    [0.4]       [1]    [1.1]    [1.1]
    [0.6]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.6]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.7]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.7]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.7]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.7]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
    [0.7]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
      [0]   [-0.2]   [-0.2]    [0.5]    [1.2]    [1.2]      [1]    [0.5]     [1.1]    [1.2]    [1.2]
      [0]    [0.1]    [0.1]    [0.8]    [1.8]    [1.8]    [1.9]    [1.6]     [2.1]    [2.1]    [2.1]
      [0]    [0.1]    [0.1]    [0.8]    [1.8]    [1.8]    [1.9]    [1.6]     [2.1]    [2.1]    [2.1]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]
      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]      [0]       [0]      [0]      [0]

Timing Map
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [33]
   [-100]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [34]     [33]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [29]     [28]
   [-100]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [26]     [25]
   [-100]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]
   [-100]     [24]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [19]     [18]
   [-100]     [22]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [22]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [15]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]     [12]   [11.5]   [10.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [15]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [14]     [13]     [12]   [11.5]   [10.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [16]     [16]     [16]     [15]     [15]     [14]     [13]   [12.5]   [11.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [18]     [18]     [18]     [17]     [16]     [16]     [15]   [14.5]   [13.5]
   [-100]     [19]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [18.5]   [17.5]   [16.5]   [15.5]   [15.5]   [15.5]   [14.5]
   [-100]     [19]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [18.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [16.5]   [15.5]
   [-100]     [19]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [18.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [17.5]   [16.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [18]     [18]     [17]   [15.5]
   [-100]     [19]     [20]     [20]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [18]     [18]     [18]   [16.5]
   [-100]     [21]     [21]     [21]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [19]     [19]     [19]   [17.5]
   [-100]     [21]   [21.5]   [21.5]   [21.5]   [20.5]   [20.5]   [19.5]   [19.5]   [19.5]     [18]
   [-100]     [23]     [23]     [22]     [22]     [21]     [21]     [20]     [20]     [20]   [18.5]
   [-100]   [25.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]   [24.5]   [23.5]   [23.5]   [22.5]   [22.5]   [22.5]     [21]
   [-100]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]   [24.5]   [23.5]   [23.5]   [23.5]     [22]
   [-100]   [26.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]   [25.5]   [24.5]   [24.5]   [24.5]   [24.5]   [23.5]   [22.5]
   [-100]   [26.5]     [27]     [26]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [23]
   [-100]   [25.5]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [22]
   [-100]   [25.5]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [22]
   [-100]   [25.5]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [22]
   [-100]   [25.5]     [26]     [25]     [25]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [24]     [23]     [22]
   [-100]     [29]   [29.5]   [28.5]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]
   [-100]     [29]   [29.5]   [28.5]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]
   [-100]     [29]   [29.5]   [28.5]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]
   [-100]     [29]   [29.5]   [28.5]   [28.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [27.5]   [26.5]   [25.5]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]   [-100]
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