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Old 01-27-2005, 05:25 PM   #1
Kevin Thomas
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Default Ebay Intake vs Stock Intake Dyno Results

Hello all,

mi_cistemz_loudr, previously sent me his Ebay intake to dyno test on my car. I received it and completed dyno testing it against my stock intake and my Minnam Intake. I'm ONLY posting up stock vs Ebay intake since this post isn't about my Minnam intake. Let's cut to the chase.

Car: 1997 2.2ltr Subaru Outback Sport Wagon (AWD/Auto)

Current mods:
Unorthodox underdriven pulley
2.25" cat back exhaust/Dual Remus Muffler

Using 89 octane gas. Tire pressures are good. I did 4 runs a piece (12 total if you count my other 4 for the Minnam intake [not shown]). 2 runs were done at a time and the ECU unplugged until intake temps dropped below 89F (measured by a laser temp probe). Once temps were cool enough, ECU was plugged back in. HP/TQ figures used are the 2nd highest of the two most consistent runs.

*I need to pick up my wife shortly so I'm posting this up quickly*

Here is a horsepower graph showing the Ebay intake vs the stock intake in 3rd gear.

*Note at 4800rpm, the Ebay intake makes 94.88whp vs the stock intakes 84.88whp. A full 10whp difference in some areas on a 2.2ltr engine.


Let's look at the torque curve.

At the same rpm point, the Ebay intake makes 103.33lb-ft of torque vs the stock intake 92.43lb-ft of torque. That's a 10.9lb-ft of torque increase. Not bad at all.

Here's the breakdown of how the Ebay intake is from the bottom of 1st gear to the top of 3rd gear.



Here's a pic of the owner of the Ebay intake on how it would look in your engine bay.



Gains could possibly be more on the bigger displacemented 2.5RS. So there you have it. I have to run out to pick up my wife. Questions and comments are welcome. Ebay intakes kick arse! Stop wasting your hard earned $$$ on Cobb and other really expensive intakes. I've been saying this all along.

This also disproves the 'theory' that a Torque Box is needed. My Impreza has that container/box thingamajigga attached to the intake. With the Ebay straight pipe, torque was gained tremendously as you can tell.
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Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 01-27-2005 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 01-27-2005, 07:41 PM   #2
gtwagon941
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Nice work. Way to make TONS of people feel a bit ripped off after spending a boat load on the "only" intake that showed gains. I've always been hesitant to get an intake as I thought the COBB (hi $$$) were the only ones that actually did anything and I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money.

Now an ebay intake on the other hand is much more in my budget...

Jared
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Old 01-27-2005, 08:40 PM   #3
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Great thread.

Now is when all the cobb and injen boys get a nasty sinking feeling.

Thank you so much for taking the time to prove that just because something costs alot dosn't mean its better. I really want to dyno my intake now.
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Old 01-27-2005, 09:46 PM   #4
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I bought a very similar intake from Rallitek for my '99 RS a year ago:

Besides being the loudest thing I've ever heard under my hood, it also caused the engine to lean out a LOT. So much, in fact, that at 5500RPM the ECU would force a fuel cut as though I had hit redline. I ended up having to buy and install an S-AFC and run the following air/fuel correction curve:

(notice 21% extra fuel at redline). Then it made what seemed like some extra power, but I ended up selling it and installing an Injen. I'm more satisfied with its sound and it does not lean out the car as much, though its still around 11% extra fuel at redline.
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:40 AM   #5
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hahaha. Kevin, you just made my day. I'm printing the dyno charts out now...

man i knew i gained something, but 10 more hp and lb/ft? thats crazy!

well the intake was bought for me by a friend. that and the parts to make it fit right. Ill send him the link to this page. He'll be nutz.

Thanks Kevin for taking the time and money to do this.

-Shaun
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:01 AM   #6
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Thats sweet. I've been on the fence about an intake, but I think this has convinced me
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Old 01-28-2005, 10:51 AM   #7
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Thanks! I hope your post helps put an end to the NASIOC Board Legend that "You can't do much to improve your EJ22 so you might as well swap in a EJ25". When I added my supplementary hoodscoop fed intake, the power increase was noticeable and I think you have to have at least a 5hp gain to notice the difference with any mod.

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Old 01-28-2005, 11:52 AM   #8
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these numbers are very interesting. I have an indentical intake, except for an additional silicone joint in the bend. However, I use a Ractive "heat shield" filter, and the filtration area don't look as large. I like the heat shield because it will be easy to convert it into CAI by adding a tube and run it into the front fender. I also tought about taking a broken headlight and make a ram-air intake for drag racing days
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:06 PM   #9
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i bought a ebay intake, i got the wrong one tried to return it, dude left and killed the account on ebay, so im 50 bucks out, anyone know if its cheap to re-bend a pipe? or sum how remedy this badboy
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:22 PM   #10
Kevin Thomas
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I didn't want to comment on the Ebay intake(s) but I think I should say something on this. These intakes are not bolt-ons. You can't just purchase an Ebay intake and expect to just install it without issues.

They have to be modified. For example, the IAC valve and hose may have to be enlarged. You may have to drill a hole or somehow tap into the intake to attach an IAC, PCV or valve cover vacuum hose. 'May' is the key word since all of these intakes are not alike. I only tested this one version that was modified this one way by Shaun.

Also, you probably are going to have to purchase a Maf adapter. I didn't use the one that was provided by the owner (Shaun). I used the maf adapter I have for my Minnam intake, which is a perfect fit. It looked like Shaun had to modify a maf adapter to make it fit.

3rd note is that some of you ARE NOT going to like the air filter. I was going to include pics but when I swap cars, I left my digital camera in the other car. I'm sending this intake back today and it's all boxed up so I can't give you detailed pics. What I can tell you is not the quality of the filter element but the top of the filter looks similar 'to a thin metal screen'. Sure it will filter out some stuff but it's not an 'air filter' type of material. It's almost like sticking a panty hose over your maf sensor.

There's a reason why it's cheap. That wasn't the point of this thread. I wanted to see if the intake actually made or lost hp/torque and where it did it at. I was very curious. I'm putting up this post now because I feel some what responsible if a noob hurries up and go out and purchase one of these, only to be left at a standstill when they are ready to install it because they can't. Now you know!
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:39 PM   #11
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any comment on the a/f ratios? when is a lean condition dangerous?

i had a feeling that with my gravel sport and my aem cai that they were leaning out the fuel... at the very top end. the sound was just different as the ecu relearned... too bad the safc/safc2 doesn't work in the long run with MY03 OBS (MAP).

the larger the intake diameter the leaner it runs, yes?
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Old 01-28-2005, 01:47 PM   #12
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I think that greater hp gains are realized with the engine mods on this car. If you just slap on an intake, it's not going to make much of a difference. However, the catback has to help things out. Also, if you added some headers, I'm sure the intake would be working to its fullest potential. It seems like anything that helps the engine on the exhaling end would make the intake that much more efficient.

BTW, thanks for the comparison. I feel vindicated.
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:44 PM   #13
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Hey Kevin, where are you located? I don't think it would be possible for an Intake to make those gains here in Park City (7000ft), or am I just crazy?

Oster
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:29 PM   #14
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alrighty. my ebay intake ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT A BOLT ON!!!!

it did not fit, hoses didnt match up, etc. it was labeled for my car thoh. we blocked 2 hose thingys (one for breather), made our own mount for the one hose, had to cut the pipe, make our own MAF adaptor (didnt know they made them, will buy one when i get the intake back), etc. LOOK ON THE ORIGINAL EBAY INTAKE PAGE for a BREAKDOWN OF MY INTAKE.
i took us 6 hours to get it right, mainly brainstorming.

i used the filter included, but its now dirty so im gonna get a new one.

i just cant believe the gains. i mean i believe it, but WOW!!! neways, the dyno starts at 4k rpms. thats where the car goes from "stockish" to.. uh... well thats where it really starts pulling
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:34 PM   #15
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yeah. the intake was originally S shaped

00
-00
--00
----000
------000000000
----------0000000000000000
-----------------------000000
----------------------------000
------------------------------00

Last edited by t3hWIT; 09-16-2005 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:39 PM   #16
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crap. that didnt work right.

it was like an S with half a curve taken off, or a 5 without the flat top taken off.
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Old 01-28-2005, 06:58 PM   #17
Kevin Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goNads
the larger the intake diameter the leaner it runs, yes?
I honestly can't answer this directly. Despite what you may read about your car not learning at WOT, it does. Every run I did with an aftermarket intake, the air/fuel ratio got richer and richer. Even after disconnecting the ECU after I did two runs and reconnecting it to do another two runs with the same intake. It seemed the ECU took up where it left off before and continued to make the car run richer, in all gears.

Also, different Subaru ECUs work differently. I noticed through dyno testing that an Impreza ECU the same year as mine just made a little later runs leaner. It's as if the ECU mapping is different. While my ECU keeps adjusting richer and richer until above 5000rpm, the air/fuel ratio can drop as low as 10.0:1, the one made later on the same year as mine won't go below 12.5:1. I haven't gone about trying to figure it out. I just understand that this is the way it works.

In short, I'm trying to say that different intakes are going to work differently on different cars (even of the same make/model and year). Even your modifications will determine how rich/lean it's going to run. Each one will be a case by case test. I know my car just dumps a load of fuel above 5000rpm on everything except for the stock setup after it gets used to an aftermarket intake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chip4761
I think that greater hp gains are realized with the engine mods on this car. If you just slap on an intake, it's not going to make much of a difference. However, the catback has to help things out. Also, if you added some headers, I'm sure the intake would be working to its fullest potential. It seems like anything that helps the engine on the exhaling end would make the intake that much more efficient.
Is there a reason why this reasoning wouldn't apply to the stock intake as well? I'm an idiot so I'm sorry if it's a simple explanation. Someone else said the exact same thing on another forum where I posted this up. I never heard anyone say this about the Cobb intake.

Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 01-28-2005 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:36 PM   #18
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wok wok. next up, ebay underdrive pulley.

hey, i may be short on cash, but 'i'll do what i can with what i got'



-shaun
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Old 01-29-2005, 12:21 AM   #19
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hey man congrats on those numbers. You told me you were sending it away and im happy you did. Proves to alot of ppl that cheap mods can be good too. I know im a broke college kid.
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Old 01-29-2005, 02:14 AM   #20
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Hmm Seeing these test results make me want to go see what my car acts like on the dyno with my modified Ebay intake. I think I will go do that when I got some spare change floating around. But that will be after I get the Perrin Pulley I just ordered. Although these results are pretty good if not dam good. I am still going to be selling my ebay CAI for an Injen (mainly for looks). Now here is an interesting question though. IN my area there are only FWD and RWD dyno's and my car like everyones here on NASIOC is AWD. My car can be put into FWD by use of a fuse any idea if by doing this I would affect the dyno results? But once again thanks alot for finnaly putting this debate to rest. SCORE ONE FOR THE CHEAP GUYS !!!!
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Old 01-29-2005, 08:50 AM   #21
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Makes me wonder how it would compare to a true CAI in 100 degree Tennesse heat with the hood down.
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Old 01-29-2005, 10:57 AM   #22
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taking out that fuse doesnt make the car truely fwd. i forget what exactly it does, but i read on the forums somewhere that, for example, if you wanted to tow your car, you still need a flatbed or you'll break something.

another thing. a friend of mine has a 1st gen talon. it broke so he had to get it towed. the guy said that even thoh its AWD, he can tow it with a regulat tow truck.

they made it all of like 3 feet. now, not only is it not running, it is RWD. and if you saw the small connections putting power to the rear wheels, you'd be afraid to put power through them too...
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Old 01-29-2005, 11:52 AM   #23
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It make me smile how some people would believe in god, and still not believe a dyno chart.

even if there's other mods on the engine, it prove one thing. these engine are highly restricted both ways. 10Whp is achievable with a simple ebay intake and a catback exhaust. let's say 50$ for the intake, 50$ for a large midpipe, and 50$ for a generic hi-flow muffler, and you're done. maybe i'm optimistic but it can be done for 200$ for sure.

then, think about what an hi-flow can and a headers can do.
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Old 01-29-2005, 12:02 PM   #24
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Hmmm... Not to be pessimistic, but I still wonder what the gains are on a 1.8l with no other mods...

-Josh
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:31 AM   #25
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What do you guys think about a EBAY intake on a 01 RS? do it or not? i'm cheap...haha
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