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Old 01-31-2005, 12:13 AM   #1
crofrog
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Question Coil over fluid volume

Does any one have a website that list or know where to find the volume of fluid in some common coil overs. Like some of the tien's and then some better ones like Leda, DMS, Ohlins, Bilstien.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 01-31-2005, 01:49 AM   #2
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Have you tried looking at the manufacturer's websites? Also, all coilovers that I know of are gas filled. . .not liquid.

Calvin
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Old 01-31-2005, 02:25 AM   #3
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Calvin,
Most coilovers have fluid. Why do you think the nicer coilovers have a remote reservoir? It isn't for gas.
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnk
Have you tried looking at the manufacturer's websites? Also, all coilovers that I know of are gas filled. . .not liquid.

Calvin
ALL modern dampers are filled with oil and use high pressure gas (typically nitrogen) to suppress foaming of the oil.
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Old 01-31-2005, 09:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnk
Have you tried looking at the manufacturer's websites? Also, all coilovers that I know of are gas filled. . .not liquid.

Calvin
yes saddly from what I can tell most don't see fit to publish this information.

thanks,
Chris
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:23 AM   #6
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I stand corrected. . .funny thing is that I knew they had fluid and gas. . .this flu is really doing a once over on me.

In any case, have you tried contacting the manufacturers for the information you're requesting? It's worth a shot.

Calvin
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnk
I stand corrected. . .funny thing is that I knew they had fluid and gas. . .this flu is really doing a once over on me.

In any case, have you tried contacting the manufacturers for the information you're requesting? It's worth a shot.

Calvin

no I haven't taken that final step of emailing the manufacturers yet, I was really hoping some one would already have the knowledge. That is the next step though.

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog
no I haven't taken that final step of emailing the manufacturers yet, I was really hoping some one would already have the knowledge. That is the next step though.

Cheers,
Chris
What is your purpose in wanting this information? It's not in any way significant from a qualitative standpoint.

Different valving designs and piston sizes will naturally need different volumes of fluid to work, but it doesn't mean that the type with more or less fluid will operate better, or worse. They are merely different designs.

Enlighten us, what's the significance you're seeking to learn from this?
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TopSpeed
What is your purpose in wanting this information? It's not in any way significant from a qualitative standpoint.

Different valving designs and piston sizes will naturally need different volumes of fluid to work, but it doesn't mean that the type with more or less fluid will operate better, or worse. They are merely different designs.

Enlighten us, what's the significance you're seeking to learn from this?
This is purely an intellectual affair.

It stand to reason that a shock with a higher fluid volume will resist shock fade better than one with less fluid volume, or else there would be little point in external reservoirs. Although as you stated I'm sure many other design criteria can effect shock fade. This made me curious how much fluid volume was in what is commonly considered the better coilovers versus the cheaper although as you stated not necessarily inferior products.

I understand that fluid levels and damper fade are but one small area of overall shock performance, but the way I learn is by first getting a basic understanding of how the whole system works then breaking it down piece by piece and the putting all of my knowledge back together with the complete picture. Iíve been working system by system for about 2 years now, and I reckon Iím about 2% of the way of having a clue.

If my above understanding of how fluid levels effects just this one little part of shock performance is wrong please enlighten me.

Thanks,
Chris

edited for grammar

Last edited by crofrog; 01-31-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:13 AM   #10
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edit: I guessed wrong. DOH!
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:01 PM   #11
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Well, again the amount of fluid does not directly corollate to shock fade. The design of the fluid pathways inside the damper will contribute significantly to the manner in which heat can be removed from the fluid. The material that the body of the damper is built from will contribute to this also.

Since you're worried about shock fade, I assume you're looking to use this system in rally or something similar? Most modern damper designs do not exhibit noticeable fade in track conditions unless they are being used for endurance racing.

The people to talk to about the technical aspect would be any suspension manufacturer that specializes in rally, rally raid (dakar) or Baja type racing.

Ohlins, Proflex, DMS, Moton, Aragosta... the list goes on. I'm not sure if Penske does Baja shocks but they'd be worthwhile to talk to as well.
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Old 01-31-2005, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed
Well, again the amount of fluid does not directly corollate to shock fade. The design of the fluid pathways inside the damper will contribute significantly to the manner in which heat can be removed from the fluid. The material that the body of the damper is built from will contribute to this also.
"Although as you stated I'm sure many other design criteria can effect shock fade."

Quote:
Since you're worried about shock fade, I assume you're looking to use this system in rally or something similar? Most modern damper designs do not exhibit noticeable fade in track conditions unless they are being used for endurance racing.
"This is purely an intellectual affair."

I'm not insofar worried about shock fade it is just what I'm currently trying to understand what causes it and what prevents it.

Obviously I'm barking up the wrong tree trying to figure out how much fluid is contained in various shocks. It is probably top secret company data from the various shock manufactures anyhow. I resign my self to not knowing this obviously non-important bit of information.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 01-31-2005, 02:09 PM   #13
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My money is on Chris having talked to a specific vendor.
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Old 01-31-2005, 03:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBiggly
My money is on Chris having talked to a specific vendor.
I've not talked to any vendors, until about 2 hours ago. When I sent emails to DMS, Tein, Koni, KYB. Asking for the amount of fluid, the pressure of the nitrogen and for a shock dyno graph.

Cheers,
Chris
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Old 01-31-2005, 03:16 PM   #15
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Talk to Lee Grimes at Koni, he may be able to help you with that kind of data.

Try calling Ohlins USA in Hendersonville, NC as well.
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