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Old 02-02-2005, 12:03 PM   #1
MrTransAm
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Default Turbo timer, yes or no?

To all those who I must have offended with my own personal experience with turbines and turbo charged cars of the past.
I apologize. I did what I should have done first and contacted the true experts on Subaru cars. This is the Email direct from them on the subject of Turbo Timers. Once again, accept my humble apology for not updating my knowledge.


Thank you for visiting the Subaru Website and for your inquiry.

We are happy to hear that you are interested in customizing your Subaru. We would not recommend the use of a Turbo Timer in your vehicle, as there is no need for the use of this item. Our position regarding this is that it is not necessary to perform a 'cool down/idling' procedure, as was recommended with past turbo models. Our current turbo engine has far greater cooling capacity and coupled with technological advances, makes this practice no longer necessary. This explains why information about a cool down is not included in the Owner's Manual.

To further explain, the heat contained in the turbo charger will begin to vaporize the coolant in the turbo charger after the engine is stopped. The hot vapor will enter the coolant reservoir tank, which is the highest point of the coolant system. At the same time that the vapor exits that turbo charger, coolant supplied from the right bank cylinder head flows in to the charger. This action cools the turbo charger down. This process will continue until the vaporizing action in the turbo charger has stopped or cooled down.

Lastly, we only recommend the installation of Genuine Subaru products in our vehicles. These can be purchased through your local Subaru dealership.

If interested, you can check out our new Performance Parts Website. Once on our Home page, use the drop-down box below the 'Subaru Owners' option and select the 'Performance Parts' option. You will then be linked to our Performance Parts Web site. If you enter the specifics for your Subaru, you will be able to view a list of the applicable Subaru Performance Parts. At the top, you have the option of emailing dealer(s) regarding it's availability and pricing.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future assistance, please feel free to contact us again.

Best wishes,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
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Last edited by MrTransAm; 02-05-2005 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 02-02-2005, 12:47 PM   #2
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Not sure about the 2.5l turbo, but for the WRX's 2.0l turbo Subaru came out with a technical bulletin pretty much saying that a turbo timer is worthless and unnecessary. They gave a reason which was something like that the cooling system has a built in design that basically cools the turbo somehow...don't remember exactly. I'm sure someone on here can give specifics.

And anyway, what applies to a helicopter doesn't need to be transfered to an automobile. Case in point: I read about a military helicopter thats currently in-service. The thing needs 22hrs of maintenance for every 1hr of use! Not even a domestic car has those kind of down times.
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Old 02-02-2005, 02:08 PM   #3
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The new turbo's are water cooled. Something about when the car shuts off, water is still circulating thorugh the turbo so even though the car is off, the cooling system is still working to stabilize the tubo temp. However, thats jsut the turbo, what about everthing else, does the engine need to cool down? I got a turbotimer and have it run 10 seconds after I shut it down. Thats for rolling up windows people forget to roll up after I remove the key outta the ignition. And some people think its kool. Turbo timers anrt too much money and they are easy to install. I say get one just in case if you want. I mean... We really dont NEED a downpipe do we? We dont NEED a new turbo. Our cars will run fine jsut the way it is. All aftemarket parts you put on your car are to make you happy and if a TT make you happy, the DO IT!!! Dont be so insecure as to need another persons permission to get what you want.
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Old 02-02-2005, 03:10 PM   #4
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Many insurance will not cover a loss if you leave the car unattended and running even if it is locked and will shut off on it's own.
Having said that, I did not think of a TT for the windows (which I do all the time). Great idea Thanks
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Old 02-02-2005, 03:21 PM   #5
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So wait, you joined today and decided to school us all on our WRX Mitsu TD-04 turbos because you work on helicopters?!?
Is that right?

It's been covered 100000000 times already. No, your WRX DOES NOT need a turbo timer. The coolant runs thru the turbo after the engine is off, and until the coolant is cool enough to not condense anymore, through simple fluid dynamics. And just in case all those dumb Subaru engineers have been lying to us the whole time, a replacement TD04 turbo is in the same price range as a turbo timer anyway.
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Old 02-02-2005, 03:31 PM   #6
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Thanks for the lesson on helicopter turbines. I'll have to remember that the next time I fire up my Huey.
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Old 02-02-2005, 05:34 PM   #7
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Next lesson will be how the M1 Abrams drivetrain needs friction additives to promote grip just like our Subie diffs

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Old 02-02-2005, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTransAm
I see a lot of people trying to convince others they are wasting money on a Turbo Timer. I figure I might shed some light on the subject at hand. Iíve been working on Turbine Helicopters for 22 years now. It is our practice, or I should say regulation to allow the engines a cool down period of 2 minutes. Thatís not to say that the turbine or oil system actually cools down, but it allows the components and fluids to reach a STABALIZED temperature. It has been said incorrectly to cool the turbo, it should be said to stabilize. Run your engine and turbo hard from first crank and shut down after some hard running, be prepared to buy some new parts. You think the high performance parts manufactures care if you take care to increase the longevity of your stuff. You think that Lycoming, the maker of our Helo engines care if we need to replace there no warranty engine at 500,000 each. Nobody said you have to have a timer, but it sure makes life a little easier being able to walk away rather than sit and wait. To all though who persist in thinking Bull, run 10 miles as hard as you can then come to stop and lay down, now how do feel. Didnít the coach tell you walk after the run to cool down, he should of said to STABALIZE!
I think what he is saying is that a turbo timer cools the ENTIRE system down, bringing temperatures back to a stable point, where shutoff of the vehicle will not have as damaging effects. I worked as an engineer aboard ships for 6 years and always warmed up and cooled down ANY engine I operated. You can compare his helo example to this, and these deisel engine examples. It will prolong the life of your entire engine componets. That said, it is not neccessary, just something to think about. Interesting point on the insurance though. Matt
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:38 PM   #9
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LOl this is funny to me im at work grinding airfoils for both the turbins in this thread and reading abought Subby stuff lol.Thank you Honywell the pc at in my work area.Brad ES&S Honywell
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:40 PM   #10
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I must agree that running the car for the purpose of cooling the turbo is stupid. But I huge thing people are forgetting it the speed the turbine can and will run at.

You need to idle the car for a little while (30 - 45 sec) to let the turbine slow before you cut ALL oil supply to it. This is really only a concern if you've been in boost a short while before parking the car.
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:25 PM   #11
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Yup, Joined right after I was born too. Like I said ,do what you like, but let people draw the decision on thier own, that's all. No more telling them they waste THIER money on something they desire to protect thier investment in a car. If the majority
of people ruled, All of our cars would be banned from the road. Freedom of choice brothers, that's the main message.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:34 AM   #12
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Before going into the whole Cooling down process of Subaru engines, and not Helo engines ... you must understand that having an engine idle "might" be good for the turbo but not that good for the engine oil ... because anybody with an oil temp gauge knows that idling the car significantly raises the engines oil temperature...

As for the "self Cooling" issue... this is a no-brainer, if you want to experience the self-cooling function of your car when it is shut down, simply go run it real hard for a couple of minutes ... stop and shut-down the car and pop the hood.

place your head neer the turbo and you will hear the coolant running around the system and doing it's job. (and by the way, this will last for more than 10 minutes...)

so a turbo-timer, although pretty neat, will probably help cool down the turbo after hard runs, but its nothing the car cant do while not running.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:57 AM   #13
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We have beaten this dead horse silly... Try doing a search some time
You don't now and will never need a turbo timer on your WRX or STI turbo just go to your local subaru dealer and ask them for the service bullitin from september 2001. It states every reason why you dont need a turbo timer or to follow any other shut down procedure on your car.

When was the last time you heard a Volvo, or Sabb driver say "damn I need a turbo timer for my car" You dont thanks to engineers at Sabb and Volve and their cars last 10+ years with the turbos in them going the entire distance. Please have the same fait in FHI engineers as you would have in those ford/GM ones at Volvo and Sabb afterall engineering is the same here, japan and europe they dont change fluid dynamics just because you drive a subaru. Our turbos are cooled with coolant as well as oil. Try reading some of the Unabombers F.A.Q.s before you talk about turbine engines that inherrantly run hotter than standard engines and are treated differently.

<--- Worked at Pratt and Whitney for 4 years
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchild83
We have beaten this dead horse silly... Try doing a search some time
You don't now and will never need a turbo timer on your WRX or STI turbo just go to your local subaru dealer and ask them for the service bullitin from september 2001. It states every reason why you dont need a turbo timer or to follow any other shut down procedure on your car.

When was the last time you heard a Volvo, or Sabb driver say "damn I need a turbo timer for my car" You dont thanks to engineers at Sabb and Volve and their cars last 10+ years with the turbos in them going the entire distance. Please have the same fait in FHI engineers as you would have in those ford/GM ones at Volvo and Sabb afterall engineering is the same here, japan and europe they dont change fluid dynamics just because you drive a subaru. Our turbos are cooled with coolant as well as oil. Try reading some of the Unabombers F.A.Q.s before you talk about turbine engines that inherrantly run hotter than standard engines and are treated differently.

<--- Worked at Pratt and Whitney for 4 years
I think in order to post everyone shud be an expert on the subject at hand...
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmatt00
I think in order to post everyone shud be an expert on the subject at hand...
I don't. But is it too much to ask n00bs to do a search before posting the same crap over and over and over and over? Especially when it's misguided crap.
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Old 02-03-2005, 02:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpych
I don't. But is it too much to ask n00bs to do a search before posting the same crap over and over and over and over? Especially when it's misguided crap.


I was joking....everyone here seems to work on turbine engines, AND be experts but with different opinions....hmmmm
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:01 PM   #17
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Shows what you guys know.

I have TWO turbo timers....my engine will never fail!!!!
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Old 02-04-2005, 04:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTransAm
I see a lot of people trying to convince others they are wasting money on a Turbo Timer. I figure I might shed some light on the subject at hand. Iíve been working on Turbine Helicopters for 22 years now. It is our practice, or I should say regulation to allow the engines a cool down period of 2 minutes.
Hello. My job is operating and maintaining a set of (7) Saturn Gas Turbine generator sets at 1200hp each. They are probably not as big as your helo engines, but we too always let them run for 2 minutes after the load is removed to let them come down before we turn them off.

However, Gas Turbines are not water cooled. The turbo in your Impreza IS water cooled and it has a remote coolant tank built into the cooling system that cycles liquid/vapor through it once you turn it off.

There is absolutely no need to use a turbo timer on a WRX/STI. It is an absolute waste of time and money. Simply letting the car idle for the amount of time it takes to set the parking brake, remove your seatbelt, and gather your things for wherever you're going is PLENTY of time to allow it to stabilize.
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Old 02-04-2005, 04:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caliber
You need to idle the car for a little while (30 - 45 sec) to let the turbine slow before you cut ALL oil supply to it. This is really only a concern if you've been in boost a short while before parking the car.
No. This is one of the most horrible myths on the internet. The turbo on your Impreza has nowhere near enough inertia to keep spinning for even 10 seconds after shutoff, let alone 30-45 seconds. You know that high pitched sound it makes when you open the throttle? That's the turbo spinning up. It doesn't take long. And when you close the throttle it slows down even faster.
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:30 AM   #20
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[quote=nhluhr]However, Gas Turbines are not water cooled. The turbo in your Impreza IS water cooled and it has a remote coolant tank built into the cooling system that cycles liquid/vapor through it once you turn it off.QUOTE]


So this means, for example, medium speed marine deisels do not need a cool down period because they are water cooled?? Isn't it good for an engine to return to lower temperatures before shutting down? When you look at the turbo and it is glowing red I think it is still pretty hot 10 seconds after you stop driving. Takes a little longer than that to cool down.
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Old 02-06-2005, 08:23 AM   #21
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[quote=kpmatt00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhluhr
However, Gas Turbines are not water cooled. The turbo in your Impreza IS water cooled and it has a remote coolant tank built into the cooling system that cycles liquid/vapor through it once you turn it off.QUOTE]


So this means, for example, medium speed marine deisels do not need a cool down period because they are water cooled?? Isn't it good for an engine to return to lower temperatures before shutting down? When you look at the turbo and it is glowing red I think it is still pretty hot 10 seconds after you stop driving. Takes a little longer than that to cool down.
dude ... have you not read the thread ???

first of all we are talking about turbo cooling ... "isn't it good for an engine to return to lower temps" ... if you idle the engine ... it WILL become hotter ...

the turbo however will probably cool down... but it's nothing it cannot do while the car is shut down.
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Old 02-06-2005, 11:12 AM   #22
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LOTS of wasted skull sweat in this thread.....
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Old 02-06-2005, 11:49 AM   #23
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Do not post subject lines in all caps.

second, this thread is very close to the dumpster.

Jay
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:23 AM   #24
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[quote=MrTransAm]To all those who I must have offended with my own personal experience with turbines and turbo charged cars of the past.
I apologize. I did what I should have done first and contacted the true experts on Subaru cars. This is the Email direct from them on the subject of Turbo Timers. Once again, accept my humble apology for not updating my knowledge.

Dude, it's cool. I'm sure no one was offended, it's just you get kinda tired of seeing mis-information thrown around here as fact. After the 4987th thread about turbo timers it gets old. Keep reading and enjoy your Subaru! And if you want a TT then go nuts, it's your car and no one can tell you what to do with it, but you don't need one.

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Old 02-08-2005, 09:37 AM   #25
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this topic has been covered before...but ill say it again..a turbo timer will be the BEST thing for ur car...
yes the WRX manual sais u dont need one. but u can only cool the turbo so mutch from convection. My buddy just bought a 2nd gen DSM. and the turbo on it was broken. the Shaft actualy broke in 2 peaces. he talked to our instructor about it and he said that was due to the previous owner not letting the car cool down after driving...
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