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Old 02-04-2005, 05:21 PM   #1
Keith
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Default 1st and 2nd slipping on new clutch after swap (when cold!?!?)

Hey, well I finally drove my car. Few things need to be done still, but I found this weird.
So, i tried getting on my car a bit and found that it justs slips like hell between 1st and 2nd, 2nd and 3rd. Now after it warms up a bit, it doesn't happen as much.
any ideas?
93L
02 wrx engine
03 wrx tranny/difs
Lightend flywheel.
??
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Old 02-04-2005, 06:12 PM   #2
Matt Monson
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Was it a used clutch? It could be glazed from the previous owner. Or you could have feathered it and glazed it once it was in the car...
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Old 02-04-2005, 09:37 PM   #3
Soon2Bgreat
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Does it smell at all...what about the higher gears?
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:47 PM   #4
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no, no smell. I doin't get it.
I took it out today, drove around the highway for a while, (warmed it up). still happend..drove a bit more, and it stoppped. What the hell?

Its like an automatic in 1st and 2nd. Stays at the same RPM but speed increases.
Then when it warms up, its all good.

Higher gears: it happens in third, but not so much in 4th. Also, I can't get into the powerband of my car because I can't get over 4-5k rpms either
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:05 PM   #5
Soon2Bgreat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith
Stays at the same RPM but speed increases.
Then when it warms up, its all good.
...should be the opposite, RPM's increase but speed stays the same if it was slipping. It should also be in the higher gears and not the lower ones.

It could be a problem with the TOB not properly engaging when cold, could be some sort of residue still left on the flywheel or clutch from the car that could be causing this. Could be a problem with the slave cylinder not applying enough pressure when it's cold. Sorry i can't be of more help, but it doesn't seem like your clutch itself is worn out.

It's not making like a chattering is it?

IMO check all your hydraulics first, rebleed everything. It's cheap and easy.
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:19 PM   #6
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Do you have a hydraulic or cable operated clutch? If it's cable operated you need to adjust the throw on the clutch line so it fully engages the clutch when released. If you have a hydrualic clutch you may want to check the lines for air again and rebleed as previously posted.

Good luck with solving the limp mode problem with your wiring.
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:21 PM   #7
Keith
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everything was rebled prior to takeoff, so I don't think that is it.
Also, when I "drop" the clutch at higher gears, it catchs...weird, that and i can downshift without a problem.
After it warms up, if I let go of the clutch quickly, its normal and bucks a bit (bad driving)..this only happens when it is cold.
If it is residue, how long do you think it would take. The car has been driving approx 90 miles already.
(btw, thanks for suggestions)
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bgreat
IMO check all your hydraulics first, rebleed everything. It's cheap and easy.
That is my guess too. Not sure if the clutch pedal or the slave cylinder (hydrualic clutch assembely) have any adjustments either, but check.

The good news:
I bet it is something pretty simple, and not something major. I'd take it easy and keep driving it, see if it gets any better.

Side note:
If the rpms are staying the same and speed is increasing, the clutch is not slipping. When a clutch slips, you are trying to accelerate and the rpms go up, but speed does not.

You might have some sort of tuning issue when the car is cold. You say when it is cold, but can you clarify what is cold? The engine, the outside temp?

Have you tried letting the car warm up to temperature before driving it, and then seeing if it still happens?

Glad to hear the car is up and running Keith. Good like working out the kinks.

Paul G.
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Old 02-05-2005, 12:07 PM   #9
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Paul, thanks for the info..some answers:
1. The rpms are going up and the car isn't going anywhere, gradually it speeds up (as the clutch is engaging ? ). When i say like an auto, I mean I'll keep it at 3-4k rpms and the speed eventually goes up.

as for being cold. Yeah, i let the car idle for a while before I took it out last night. When I say 'cold" I mean "not driven". Engine temp is warm, the heat from the car is hot, so the car is warmed up, but the clutch isn't

I find it odd that the clutch doesn't smell...just weird.
Anyone think the flywheel has anything to do with it? It is the only non stock thing (in terms of drive train) on the car?
Keith
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Old 02-05-2005, 01:05 PM   #10
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Have you checked all the fluid levels. Make sure the clutch slave cylinder doesn't have air in the lines, and that the fluid level is correct.

Paul G.
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Old 02-05-2005, 01:38 PM   #11
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my car does the same deal...
i dont know if it is slippin or what.
i have a fairly new ACT clutch and just did an EJ22T engine swap

it only happens in 1st and second gear.. when at a complete stop and i start to go foward... the car seems to bog out.. until i hit around 2500 to 3000 rpms it picks up speed...
but when at a complete stap again and if i rev the car higher at 3000 rpm and slowly release the clutch pedal. the car moves foward fine.
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Old 02-05-2005, 03:55 PM   #12
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Not very likely, but still worth checking: I've seen a few WRX's with rear axleshafts slightly popped out at the rear diff. It's not easily visible, since they're usually only .25 inches out or so. But if they are, they are disengaged from the rear diff, which basically would act like a tire spinning excessively. It won't feel like tirespin since the other 3 wheels are catching up over time, and the viscous coupling in the transmission usually heats up over time and reduces this feel. This translates into a slipped clutch feel. And it's not something you can check by just spinning the tire by hand with the car off the ground.

The last time I saw something like this, the owner had tried 3 different clutches, different adjustments, etc. It ended up being the right rear axle popped slightly out. Barely visible to the naked eye. Subaru technical blames this on hard acceleration when cornering- whatever. Just check the axles. Give the stubs a good thump into the diff, if they're properly seated the dust cap should be flush with the housing.
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Old 02-05-2005, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenDragon
my car does the same deal...
i dont know if it is slippin or what.
i have a fairly new ACT clutch and just did an EJ22T engine swap

it only happens in 1st and second gear.. when at a complete stop and i start to go foward... the car seems to bog out.. until i hit around 2500 to 3000 rpms it picks up speed...
but when at a complete stap again and if i rev the car higher at 3000 rpm and slowly release the clutch pedal. the car moves foward fine.
I had the same problem in a 90 legacy that i just bought. It did it because one of the front axles had eaten itself and was in two pieces so as the other guy said, takes a while for the viscous coupling in the diff to react so for a second or two it feels way underpowered. I would also suggest checking the axles both front and rear.

Replaced the axle and the car is back to normal power again.
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Old 02-05-2005, 07:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruTech707
Not very likely, but still worth checking: I've seen a few WRX's with rear axleshafts slightly popped out at the rear diff. It's not easily visible, since they're usually only .25 inches out or so. But if they are, they are disengaged from the rear diff, which basically would act like a tire spinning excessively. It won't feel like tirespin since the other 3 wheels are catching up over time, and the viscous coupling in the transmission usually heats up over time and reduces this feel. This translates into a slipped clutch feel. And it's not something you can check by just spinning the tire by hand with the car off the ground.

The last time I saw something like this, the owner had tried 3 different clutches, different adjustments, etc. It ended up being the right rear axle popped slightly out. Barely visible to the naked eye. Subaru technical blames this on hard acceleration when cornering- whatever. Just check the axles. Give the stubs a good thump into the diff, if they're properly seated the dust cap should be flush with the housing.
that is very possible, I'll do that. Everything was replaced, all axels, so maybe one just didn't go in all the way.
I have new axles for the front, I'll be installing those soon as well.
How dangerious is it to drive around with this? I don't have many tools/garage at my house.
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:17 PM   #15
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I wouldn't say it's dangerous, but if you let it go on for too long, assuming that a loose axle is your problem: you can burn up the viscous coupling, causing it to act like a full-locker. The same chatter as an STi with DCCD in full lock mode, incase that helps to explain.
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:23 PM   #16
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I agree with the axle not fully seated, have seen that before as well.

Check it out as soon as you can cause it can eat up the splines on the axle pretty quick if its popped out far enough.

Jay
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:36 PM   #17
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My clutch was slipping after my swap. The clutch master cylinder was touching the intercooler as the reservoir was too tall. It must have cocked the cylinder preventing a full release of the clutch. Swapped in a USDM WRX unit and it fixed it up fine.
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Old 02-06-2005, 01:54 AM   #18
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everything in my car is USDM wrx, so I doubt that is the problem
I'll check the axel thing wheN I get back down to LI.
thanks everyone
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:08 AM   #19
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wow Tech, great find. my Bro's galant Vr4 did this, for a different reason, and an axle wasnt engaged. i completely forgot about that incedent. my vote is for this, the symptoms describe it almost perfectly.
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:56 PM   #20
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Yeah, learn something new every day. I would never have thought to check the axles.

Paul G.
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Old 02-07-2005, 12:40 AM   #21
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yea.. i think the axle just might be the Prob.. cuz the other day.. my front pass wheel bearing is chewed to hell.. i think i over tighten the axle nut to tight.
the bearing is def shot.. the bearing are gone.. it was rollin on the races. and the axle is shot too becuz of the heat generate from the bearing.. the boot melted and the CV went dry... the right front wheel was smokin ALOT! so now.. i gotta replace my axle and my wheel bearing..
so maybe afterwards it will be okay..
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #22
Keith
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stupid question.
how do I seat the axles? (never did this bef0re)
Do I just pull the tires off and try to jam those bitches in?
Kick the tire after the car is in the air?
use the force?!
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:42 PM   #23
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push hard, might get a gap, then puch, or a rubber mallet
make sure they pop in
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:56 PM   #24
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You're not going to get the axles seated by pressing on them from the suspension side. You actually need to try and force the inner axle joint into the differential. It's kinda hard to do, because if you hit it with a hammer you risk tearing the axle boot. Take a look at the axle dust caps, see if they are flush with the differential.

If you don't know what the dust caps are, they are the (usually) brass colored round discs that are at the end of the inner joints on the axles. They should look flush or at least very close to flush with the differential. DO NOT HIT THE DUST CAPS, they will slide on the axle and do you nothing but headache, if you do that then you'll have to remove the axles to reseat the caps again.

Just try to force the axles in to the differential, worst case scenario you can't do it the way I've described, and you'll have to remove the axle and slam it in again.

Good luck.
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Old 02-10-2005, 10:01 PM   #25
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Thanks gonna give it a try tomororw
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