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Old 02-05-2005, 04:05 PM   #1
raamaudio
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Default STI sound deadening, new tutorial

OK, I have deadened to great successfull levels all kinds of vehicles including a 500 sq ft install(will add 125 more when the custome dash, doors, etc, are done) wild show rig being built right now.

Edit: This should be pretty much the same for WRX's as well as RS's and mostly for other cars as well, sedans that is. Some differences for wagons, I will see what I can learn to help them out as well for their specific concerns.

The STI was the most difficult to acheive the desired results in and we are going to make a few more adjustments to the rear deck area. Tire noise seems to be the worst offender(unless you have a massive exhaust with a high db resonance at cruising speed). The tire noise issue maybe more associated with the stiff suspension bushings as the noise is deffinately resonated in the body sturcture, most of problem is in the rear of the vehicle.

I have three levels of sound deadening I will recommend from now on, this may be for the RS as well as I have seen it posted they are quite noisy as well. And, any other sedan with really loud road noise, especially from the rear of the car.

1) Basic deadening, effective to a fairly high degree, lower weight and cost as well as labor.

-Front doors, doors with speakers, remove door panel and plastic moisture barrier, toss it in the trash.
-One layer of mat on 2/3 of the outer door skin, overlap the seems, add two more smaller layers, about 10" sq, behind the speakers. Then the same size piece of close cell foam on top of those layers(ensulite foam is best.
-Check for loose wires, cables, etc, inside the door, secure with foam tape, tie wraps, etc. build up the speaker mounting location by making a solid baffel that you can screw to the door then the speakers to it, MDF works great and easy to work with. Use a gasket between it and the door metal and screw it down snugly.
-Seal up the door access holes with a piece of tin, I use perforated aluminum, this gives the next layer of mat something to stick to and tightens up the midbass response.
-Install one layer of mat over the inner door metal, seal all air passages possible, cut the mat back around 1" from edge of door panel. Mat right up to and onto the sides of the new speaker baffel, this stiffens the whole area alot more, helps midbass response.
-Add a layer of 1/8" close cell foam, ensulite again is best but hard to find, to the top of the mat, cut around all mounting points, same for the mat, to make sure the door panel will fit back on ok, cut back around 1/2" from edge of panel. Go right over the speaker baffel then cut out the speaker hole area, the foam absorbs or breaks up unwanted accoustical energy inside the door panel area and makes a great gasket.
-Tap on the back of the door panel, being plastic it will have resonate areas. Add patches of mat to those areas until it sounds deadened, usually about 1/4 of the surface is enough, install the panel and test the the door, slam it a few times and listen for rattles, etc.

-Rear doors, I advise to ditch the speakers then seal up the doors like the front but no mat needed on the outer door skin, it is mainly for improving midbass response, no speakers, no midbass, no baffles needed either so skip those steps and patch over the stock speaker hole. The low mounted speakers are in a horrible location anyway. Saves weight and money, 99.9% of the best comp cars in the world do not use rear speakers, I never do. But, it you must have them, do the rear doors exactly like the fronts.

-Lower A pillars, in front of the doors, remove the kick panel trim, lift the factory deadening pad, mat over the big holes there then a layer of foam, wrap over the wiring the best you can to seal them up well, any holes you can reach above that, do the same.

-Wheel wells, one layer of mat on the whole rear wheel wells then a layer of ensolite over that.

-Behind rear seat, one layer of mat over the factory black plastic covering the trunk access whole, seal up all around the edges and all other holes into the trunk possible. Overlap the two verticle steel sq tubes that brace the rear deck. One layer of Ensolite over the whole area and the floor under the rear seat.

-Rear deck, EXTREMELY CRITICAL, the most important area in an STI. Seal up all the holes you can, hard to mount metal there so use a layer of mat over the wholes then a second layer of mat over the whole area. Then go under the deck and add patches of mat to the holes, etc, it will stick really well to the exposed sticky side of the mat you installed on the top of the deck. Then foam over the whole area.
-Problem, you need to have at least a access for the ventilation system to push air through. I think a sound absorbing tunnel, simply bent aluminum with an ensolite liner, may be the ticket, will try to make one when I do some touchup deadening on the STI we just worked on.

This install level would take around 60 sq ft of whatever mat brand you choose and 3 yards of 1/8" close cell foam, Ensolite being far superior to anything else I know of. Total weight gain for this level of deadening will be around 26-27 lbs.

Notes:
-For a bit more improvement, low cost, etc, you can use whatever scraps left over on the floor of the car, tap around, put it only on the resonate areas. Then a layer of ensolite over the whole floor. Two more yards will be enough if you have some left from the above steps.

2)Upper mid level deadening all the above and or below.

-All doors as #1

-Wheel wells, add a second layer of mat over the larger sections, then the foam.

-Behind rear seat, add a second layer of mat over the first layer, just in the middle is fine, about 4 sq ft. There are two small plates on the vertical supports, bolt the area you just matted to the braces through those. (Not a bad idea for #1 as well)

-Rear Deck, as #1, I have not worked out the accoutical trap tunnel for the vent system but a basic one would do wonders. Just bend some thin aluminum, line it with ensolite and attach to the underside of the rear deck. We left the 1" or so holes open that are nearest to the rear vents on the top of the deck. They are a bit small but help reduce noise intrusion being that size, they may need to be opened up a bit. It will be hard for me to further develop an exacting solution unless I have another vehicle to work on or the one we just did, we are going to drive down to install the sub box once I get teh molds finalized off the prototype unit and I will do a bit more work in that area as well as a test of the basic accoustical trap.

-Interior floor, mat the whole floor(does not need every sq inch done but at least 80% minimum, hardened, rounded over, strong areas can be left unmatted. As a second patch here and there over the more resonate areas(thump it with your fist, sounds boomy, add a patch of mat. Then a full layer of ensolite.

-Under dash, line all areas you can with Ensolite(or any inferior substitute, only saying this because I have found nothing manf anywhere near as good, easy to use, fits where needed, cheap, etc) Leave at least some open areas as it is needed for the ventilation system circulation to work.

-Trunk, without subs. Line the floor with mat, 74-80% is fine, the primary concern is resonate areas, full coverage does not add much to the effectiveness. Line the whole trunk with ensolite. Rear panels are fairly stiff and do not seem to need matted. Mat, foam, etc, your water sprayer container, it is terribly noise. Use tie wraps, foam, silicone, go over every wire, cable etc and make sure they do not resonate.

-Trunk with subs, Line the side walls, rear wall, and trunk lid with mat. On the trunk lid cut patches of mat the size of the holes in the frame, just a tad larger, install them and tuck the excess under the frame edges. Then cut another patch the same but a big larger and work it down onto the first but over the frame to bond the skin and frame together. (Before matting the lid check for any rattles from wiring, etc, and foam, silicone, tie wrap, etc, to make it solid) Done well this is usually enough mat on a trunk lid, if you have a massive sub system you may want to add a third layer of mat and cover more of the frame but not needed to cover it fully, just near the holes.
-At least on the STI the trunk lide has access holes on the rear of it, I would cut aluminum, etc, like the door sections above, cover them, mat over it and then line the whole trunk lid with ensolite, carefully applied it can look fairly nice. If you want it trimed out even more then install nonbacked carpet to it or buy a liner from the dealer but test fit as you do the deadening.

I think that is about it and would do all you need for most high end installs, added weight will be around 52-54 lbs. Approx 100+ sq ft of mat, 5 yards of Ensolite.


3) Allmost totally all out, there is no real end to this madness, 300 hours went into my truck deadening, 100k miles, still solid as a rock

-All the above steps with a few adjustments, additions, etc.

-Passenger compartment floor, one layer of mat every where, second layer on the resonate parts, one layer of ensolite everywhere, second layer of mat over all the major areas, at least 70% of the floor, one more layer of ensolite over just those areas or theh whole floor.

-Roof, one layer of mat over the whole thing, can skip the supports and just do the outer skin. One layer of ensolite over it all. Weight gain will be around 4.5 lbs. I do not like to add weight up high but this is not a huge amount, would not do this on my own car most likely I would just use the ensolite.

-Remove dash and all other interior parts, line under dasy with mat patches, then ensolite, check everything, silicone, tie wraps, foam, etc, etc, the whole car, all cables, wires, etc.

-All pillars, roof supports, rocker panels, etc, fill with expanding foam. Not the Home Depot crap, very costly and messy but the only one I would use is from Germany, my cost in large wholesale amounts is near $30 for a small can, used 5 on my truck, would take 10 at least on an STI. There are some others I have heard of that could be more cost effective. The one I use does not over expand, uses any moisture in the area to help cure the foam, leaves no air pockets to hold condensation and cause rust, etc. Mask the heck out of everything, this stuff will not come off if you make a mess, I know for a fact

-Trunk, Line the sides with mat, ensolite every sq inch, full floor matted, second layer of mat on any resonate areas.

MAJOR Problem, if you deaden well enough to keep out the massive trunk road noise and have a sub back there, you will need even more of a bass system to hear it up front. No offense meant but this is a true performance car and should not have a massive audio system in the first place. It is the primary reason why I am working so hard to produce a good up front SQ but decently loud true bass system.
At the very most I would only have an amp or two back there, flat, up agains the rear wall(almost touching), if and only if I wanted a really powerfull system but just not needed if done right.
BUT, we just stuffed two amps, 50x4 and 100x2(400 bridged for the sub) under the drivers seat, very tight fit but made it work. This is plenty of power for an audiophile system and with a deck with at least 5 bands of parametric EQ and good crossovers can be very low in weight and sound fantastic.

Of course if your primary goal of the car is to get attention at shows, etc, then build whatever you wish, at least make it easily removable

It truely saddens me to see such a wonderfull maching hamstrung but a ton of excess weight and gadgets all over it, I guess I am more of a purist at heart


Any of the above steps can be adjusted to suite your individual desires and use whatever brand of products you chose of course, there is always room for adjustments and improvements. Anyone have more to add here please do so!!!

My brain is now tired, I will edit for errors later, lol

Rick
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Last edited by raamaudio; 02-05-2005 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 02-05-2005, 06:36 PM   #2
typhoon663
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This should be a sticky...
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Old 02-05-2005, 07:32 PM   #3
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Thanks for the write up.
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Old 02-05-2005, 08:27 PM   #4
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great info, 50 pounds is not that much at all, heck i save that by just not being fat
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Old 02-05-2005, 09:41 PM   #5
raamaudio
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hahahaha, I need to lose at least 20 myself, lol!

You guys are most welcome, glad I can help and believe it or not, this is not just some way to promote what I do, I love to help and consider myself a fellow enthusiast far before a businessman

Rick
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Old 02-05-2005, 09:55 PM   #6
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wow sweet info, for wrx's as well as sti's! thanks
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:25 PM   #7
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Great info rick, thanks. Another vote for a sticky here.

I only wish that I lived somewhere near you so that I could learn how to do this right from the master. I'll probably give most of your 'stage 1' recommendations soon, but I've never attempted any sound deadening before so I know I'll probably screw it all up and waste a lot of good materials in the process. Ahh, learning is fun at least.
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:32 AM   #8
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does anyone know if the STi is louder than the wrx? I rode in an STi recently and it didn't seem louder (on the freeway) than my wrx. The wrx is a very loud car on the freeway, for road noise that is...
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Old 02-06-2005, 03:00 AM   #9
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could be the tires. stock WRX tires blow.
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Old 02-06-2005, 04:11 AM   #10
raamaudio
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I am willing to help anyone in my area, not many near me so online is the best I can usually do

Not sure if the STI is louder or not, the tires on the car we worked have been changed but they just howl on any kind of rough pavement so will look into them more. I am wondering if the bushings are so stiff they transmit alot of that into the body structure. The body is stiff but that low freq energy is the hardest to deal with and it is exceptionally strong in this particular car.

We are going to work on it more, I have a few more tricks up my sleave and we have improved it a great deal, just did not know there was so much noise from the rear of the car. Not going to do this until the end of the week, will post the results and the game plan is already part of the guide above. We are going to look at the shock towers and rear deck alot more critically as they are the only places really left to go after. Some work was done but it seems not quite enough. I may even test some thick acoustical foam under the rear deck if need be.


Anyway, we have done a great deal of good, the rest is just figuring out a few details and going after it, very interesting challenge, I like that


My son and I made my buddies F350 dual cab 6x6 turbo deisel with really noisy tires much quiter than this, sure we can do alot more with the STI

Rick

Last edited by raamaudio; 02-06-2005 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borti
does anyone know if the STi is louder than the wrx? I rode in an STi recently and it didn't seem louder (on the freeway) than my wrx. The wrx is a very loud car on the freeway, for road noise that is...
It is exponentially louder than the WRX. I had a 2002 wrx from late 2001 till I traded it for my STi last year. Its an AMAZING difference how much louder EVERYTHING is.

~v6
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Old 02-06-2005, 10:47 AM   #12
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Well, I've come to think that with the STI it'll always be a tradeoff between my need for good sound (sound deadening) and the weight that goes with it and performance enhancements. Want to deaden your doors? Lose your spare tire. Floors and trunk? K&N Typhoon. Aftermarket exhaust will sometimes increase noise, more deadening needed. Use of more matting will not add much to weight. Use of some liquids appears to not add weight either (see quietcar.com). I agree with Rick, it's too bad you can't have the ideal combination coming out of the factory, but I'd rather start with a bare car like it is and make improvements
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Old 02-06-2005, 03:52 PM   #13
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This has been a challenging adventure, how to make a great car more comfortable to live with yet keep the dynamics of the car intact.

The reason I wrote the new guide is to specifically address these issues, go after the main problem areas first, once you get to a point within your noise tolerance level then stop. Many have different levels they are willing to give up and what they need to gain so you have options to help address this.

As for liquid deadeners, I have tried quite a few and have looking into having my own but nothing has impressed me that well yet. Liquids seem a great way to go but you also have alot more prep to prevent messes that are hard to clean up, many require alot of coats to build up a thick enough layer to be effective, lack the aluminum layer that helps stiffen the panels(much more so than it may seem they would when using multiple layers), etc. There are other issues as well with this method, the only real gain I have found is nice to be able to get it into some areas hard to reach by hand for a mat type product. Then again, spray on is best for that and I have tried alot of them, so far simply not cost effective. I will keep looking into this though, just may come up with something good.

Rick
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Old 02-06-2005, 04:01 PM   #14
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Rick, any experience with Durafoam? They claim it is comparable to ensolite. http://www.monmouthrubber.com

Also, what is a good adhesive for securing the foam to the door?
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Old 02-06-2005, 04:43 PM   #15
raamaudio
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Thanks for the link! I search awhile and cannot find a distributor so I can look up sizes, etc. I would want to call them and get some more info. If I can find a better solution, i.e. more affordable then Ensolite that is as good it would be great. As it is Ensolite is very cost effective as I get it from the highest level source possible but always looking to do even better for my fellow enthusiast customers

I have tried every brand of spray can glue manf that I can find. Only one is what I really prefer to use, V&S 1081, backordered right now from the only source possible to get it in quantity

Alternates are 3M 90, much harder to work with but handles heat well, the other 3M ones just do not hold up and the 90 is not as good as 1081 V&S.

The very best solution is to use an air paint gun and commercial contact cement but the right stuff only comes in 5 gallon buckets that I know of. I bought a gun for it but not going to buy 5 gallons of glue and only use a quart or two a year, lol!

Rick
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Old 02-06-2005, 05:32 PM   #16
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Thanks Rick. I just realized I remembered your handle from somewhere! Sent you an email.
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Old 02-06-2005, 05:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V6TurboTA
It is exponentially louder than the WRX. I had a 2002 wrx from late 2001 till I traded it for my STi last year. Its an AMAZING difference how much louder EVERYTHING is.

~v6
agreed, much louder than even my mildly modified/raamatted WRX. Almost embarrassingly so when I explain that the new car is actually better than the old one.
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Old 02-06-2005, 07:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio
Not sure if the STI is louder or not, the tires on the car we worked have been changed but they just howl on any kind of rough pavement so will look into them more. I am wondering if the bushings are so stiff they transmit alot of that into the body structure. The body is stiff but that low freq energy is the hardest to deal with and it is exceptionally strong in this particular car.
Would thickening-up the undercoating in the wheel well and/or dampening the inner side of fender liners possibly help with tire-road noise?
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Old 02-06-2005, 10:19 PM   #19
raamaudio
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I am not to sure that will help much and at least one member said it did not. I do suspect the bushings in the supension are transmitting alot of energy into the body which in turns causes the very powerfull hence hard to deal with rumble. Tire selection seems to be quite critical as across smooth pavement that type of noise almost completley disapeared.

A two edged approach is needed, do all you can with deadening then look for the quietest tires you can live with. I really liked my Kumho V700's, dead quite, sticky as all get out(not so great in the cold but suprisingly good in the rain even when no tread left) smooth riding, not to great in the mileage rating though I did get a whole season of autocrossing, driving to events, alot of burnouts, many many autocross runs spinning madly out of the truns(better once I got the LSD to work but with 250 WHP in a FWD, going to spin them a bit here and there Nearly 9k miles is not bad at all when at least half of that was wheel spin, lol!

Rick
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:12 AM   #20
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Thanks for the writeup Rick, very helpful. Any good sources for the perforated aluminum sheets for backing behind holes in the doors?
[edit: fixed Rick's name it's not Rich, sorry!]

Last edited by drees; 02-07-2005 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 02-07-2005, 04:51 AM   #21
raamaudio
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Thanks, glad to help when I can

I used to buy my perf aluminum in San Diego at Industrial Metal Supply, they always had cut offs from some big job or another. The sheets were fairly large and only $.75 per pound!!!! I finally ran out and have had no luck in my new location finding it, but did find a source for full sheets, cost more to ship than the metal itself, will have my buddy bring me some from San Diego next time he drives up!

Rick
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:09 AM   #22
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Thanks Rick, I'll give them a shot!
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Old 02-07-2005, 04:58 PM   #23
raamaudio
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Great! The perf aluminum is usually stored in the verticle bins at the end of the showroom, middle of the floor, towards the entrance to the warehouse, wait until you see how bit the warehouse is!!!!

My buddy is not coming back here for a few months I just learned. I would be willing to pay you to ship me some sheets but I do understand this is alot to ask so no worries if you cannot do it. It would take a bit of time and effort, I can get by without having it for now

Rick
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:59 PM   #24
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Rick,
I have seen this quote several times and i still don't understand the concept.

"build up the speaker mounting location by making a solid baffel that you can screw to the door then the speakers to it, MDF works great and easy to work with. Use a gasket between it and the door metal and screw it down snugly."

What type of materal is used for the solid baffel?
What does MDF mean?
What does this baffel look like? Is it like a 5 sided box behind the speaker?
Do you have a picture?

Just received my mat and Ensolite today. Figure i better understand this before i get rolling on the install !!
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Old 02-08-2005, 12:28 AM   #25
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Ok, let's see if I can make this clear

Baffle= basically anything a speaker is mounted to, take a piece of plywood, a whole sheet, one half sheet, one quarter sheet, etc, cut a hole in it and mount the speaker to it, it is then a baffle. A speaker box is made up of sides, top and bottom and a front and a rear baffle or some consider the rear just a back and not a baffle.

The door mounting location is another form of baffle only this time in steel and in some cases the speaker is molded onto a plastic frame that is bolted to the door, the frame then would be the baffle.

Take your plywood above, substitute MDF.

MDF= Medium Density Fiberboard, made up of glued and pressed saw dust basically, very dense, very stable, easy to work with, used extensively in speaker building due to non resonate properties, low cost, etc, etc.

The STI we just worked on, as an example, needed new baffles to space the speakers out a bit further from the door metal so the magnets(motor structure) could clear the windows when they are down.

I removed the stock speakers and the plastic, sq face pop in mounting tabs the stock screws mounted in to hold the speakers in the doors. I just need them out of the way.

Then I took a piece of paper and made a paper rubbing of the area that was flat and transfered this to a piece of 3/4" MDF, marked it out, cut out the center for the speaker hole, cut out the shape I did the rubbing of, sanded it down a bit and test fit it to the door and made sure the windows would go up and down fully. (acutally I skipped that part because I had taken carefull measurements before and knew I needed 5/8" spacers so 3/4" were going to be fine.)

I reveresed the design for the other side and made one more then painted them black to seal up the wood and make them hide better when installed.

Basically we just substitute the stock plastic mounts molding around the stock speakers for a piece of wood, MDF, that now is the mounting baffle for the new speakers

FYI, Even though we seal up the doors the best we can, they would still be considered Infinate Baffle speaker systems because of the air leaks they will always have, car speakers are build for this.

I hope this answers your questions, I search and do not seem to have any good baffle pics at the moment.

Rick
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:51 AM   #26
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Guys, first I just wanted to say that the collective information in this thread is amazing. Second, I am getting ready to install some CL-61s myself, and am a little confused as to the threat posed by water, along with the use of various materials to combat it - sheet metal vs. some little foam water protectors. If you use sheet metal is that just cutting something out to go behind the speaker? Excuse the newbieness here Just a little confused as to what goes where once I take the door apart.

Edit: I have the IAperformance "baffles" that sit behind the speakers, but does something go behind those ? To shield it from water?

Last edited by RodimusPrime; 03-24-2005 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:26 PM   #27
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You can buy a foam baffle that covers up the back of the speaker to protect against water dripping on it. The problem is there's very little room as it is for most decent speakers, and you would have to modify the foam baffles to fit them anyways. FWIW, I've had door speakers in quite a few cars and have never had a moisture problem, even without the plastic moisture barrier.
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Old 03-24-2005, 06:01 PM   #28
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I just did some work on an STi that had front components installed about a year ago. They were rusted and full of water.


Dont say i didnt warn you

~v6
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Old 03-24-2005, 06:40 PM   #29
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This issue seldom happens but there are ways to make sure it does not, the rear foam cover things are ok but you must have as much cut out as possible so the rear of the speaker cone can move freely in the air around it, if not you will cause distortion in the output due to uneven resistance on the cone.

I have made a lip over the top of the speaker out of mat and others out of flexible plastic glued on, etc.

Rick
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:12 PM   #30
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trust me, im all to aware.

~v6
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Old 03-24-2005, 10:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio
This issue seldom happens but there are ways to make sure it does not, the rear foam cover things are ok but you must have as much cut out as possible so the rear of the speaker cone can move freely in the air around it, if not you will cause distortion in the output due to uneven resistance on the cone.

I have made a lip over the top of the speaker out of mat and others out of flexible plastic glued on, etc.

Rick

Ok well I intend to take a lot of pictures of this install once I start so hopefully we can get some guide up here for everyone's benefit. I really don't want my new speakers to get all rusty!!
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:22 AM   #32
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anyone in SoCal have experience doing this? im a little confused on the write-up. i've installed my components up front myself, but im not sure about all the layers. i just assumed u throw away the plastic, lay down a layer where the stock plastic was (cutting a hole for the speakers of course) and then put a layer on the door panel itself (with proper holes and edging of course). how off am i? im not too concerned with water damage, but if there's a trick such as a lip u mentioned, just put it a small lip like a hangover on the top of the mid?
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:39 PM   #33
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Water getting onto mids is usually from running down the inside of the door, not usually dripping on them. So, you just need to make a little dam of sorts to route the water around the opening the mid is mounted in. With a bit of care this can be done with mat products, hard to explain it though, hmmmmm. I bet if you take a good look and image it in your mind, you can come up with a design that will work

You did not mention deadening the outer door skin, very important so make sure you have covered it as well.

On the door panel just add a few strips as needed, give it the thump test with your knuckles, rubber mallet, block of wood etc, and add mat where it is resonate, you will hear the difference right away on each spot that you cover. Normally around 1/4 th to 1/3 rd of the surface area will do the job just fine.

Rick
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:38 PM   #34
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so can we get some step by step pics...........i'll be doing this REALLY soon
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Old 03-26-2005, 01:27 AM   #35
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How would you go about matting the outer door skin? (i've only taken an Acura CL door appart, but I assume other cars should be similar).

When you take the door panel off (the interior trim piece) you basically expose 3 surfaces in the following order. A "inner" door skin/frame. Then you have the glass, and then you have the outer door skin.

The inner door skin only has a few big holes cut in it, do you roll the window up (to get it out of the door) then apply the mat to the outer door skin? do you have to worry about denting the outer door skin when you roll the mat on (I would hate to finish installing my audio system only to walk outside and realized I just screwed up all my doors!)? Also, would it not be VERY difficult to get large sheets of mat (and try and work it onto the outer door skin) using only the small access holes?
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:48 AM   #36
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Deaden the outer door skin with the window up...you won't damage the outer door by deadening. Cut the product into manageable strips and reach in there and place them, then smooth them down with hands, roller, screwdriver handle, etc. This will be clearer to you once you start in on it...
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:14 PM   #37
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I found cutting 6" strips, the lenght of the roll (I just cut it all freehand as exact size doesnt matter) works great for the inside of the STi / WRX doors. I usually make a few wider pieces and a few thinner ones too. You can get away with bigger pieces in the middle of the door, and u might need a smaller piece for the bottom. That way you can put the strip up inside the door and get an idea of where you will be laying it BEFORE you peel off the backing. At least thats how I did it. If you have big arms you might have some trouble getting them up in the doors.

You can just cut the stuff any way you want to and theres really no WRONG way to do it (unless you stick it to something that needs to move such as the door handle and lock rods. You dont want to bind them up at all. Same goes with the window on the inside of the door.)


I found it really easy to pull off the plastic rain shield inside the door (WITHOUT DESTROYING IT) Then take that and lay it on top of my roll of mat and make a full copy of it including the cutout for the door handle, and the 2 slices where the stock wires pass thru. This allowed me to make a single piece that covered the entire door with ease. You just pull the wires thru the mat, and slap it on. (this was possible alone, but would be MUCH easier with a spare set of hands to hold the mat from sticking to everything it touches.

Once you get that huge piece on the door you need to cutout the speaker hole. I cut mine in a star like pattern sorta like ~> * but with a few more lines in it. Then without cutting the pieces off I took them and pushed them inside the door and stuck them on the backside of the panel. if that makes sense




When doing the outer door skin (interior side) you really need to decied what you goal is before you begin. Rick already laid out the options, you just need to pick one.

As i stated before if your in a cold environment cut your pieces before you plan on working and leave them in your boiler room. Also you might want to get a high powered hair dryer, or a heat gun (Be cautious with heat gun as you can actually bubble the paint off the other side of the sheetmetal if your not careful) I just use a high powered hairdryer and it works perfectly.

I will try to get some pics on the next car I do. I dont think it will take that long seeing I just matted the doors on another STi last night (3 in the last 3 months now?). I guess this is going to be the new cool kid mod
Its really amazing how much of a difference it makes on an STi. It is clear as day the car has been matted just by the FIRST POP when you pull the door handle. Nevermind from the way it shuts etc...
If I ever aquire a video camera (and a stock STi) I will make some videos of the difference

~v6

Last edited by V6TurboTA; 03-27-2005 at 12:19 AM. Reason: rearranged to make sense :)
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Old 03-26-2005, 11:15 PM   #38
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Great write up, I need the help, I do this many many times a day via email, sometimes I get asked to design the whole system from the ground up, not just deadening!

Rick
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:12 AM   #39
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Without a doubt. I have been one of those people in the past and I got TONS of info from you.



~v6

p.s. I wax the scissors with regular liquid car wax to prevent the black goo from sticking to them. It works wonders. I just thought of that figured id toss it in.
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:00 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V6TurboTA
p.s. I wax the scissors with regular liquid car wax to prevent the black goo from sticking to them. It works wonders. I just thought of that figured id toss it in.
WD-40 works pretty good for taking the gunk off of them when you're done, too. Soak the scissors pretty good and wipe off with a rag.
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Old 03-27-2005, 03:02 AM   #41
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Sweet. I'll have to try that

~v6
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:37 PM   #42
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I just use a ultility knife, one end to cut, one end to rub it down with. After all these years I have gotten quite proficient with it, I suppose I should be

Scissors are more controlable, less likely to cut yourself or the dreaded scratch the paint on your car, I use them on the foam triming part of the time at least and the mentioned cleaning methods and prevention one do work well

Rick
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Old 03-27-2005, 05:19 PM   #43
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Man, like, whoa! This board is awesome! Thanks for all your contribution!
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Old 05-19-2005, 08:59 PM   #44
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Question Any updates?

Dear Rick,

I know it's been less than a month ago the last time you added/edited something to this thread..... but was just wondering whether you have some more info, or pictures you could sahre with us...

I've compiled all the info you have published, to print it, and yes, it is some pages..........

Once again, thanks!


Cheers,

MO
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:01 AM   #45
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I was also curious to when you said you don't use rear speakers, what do you use for rear fill? the rear deck? Also when mounting the mdf baffle to the door, what is the best way to secure it?
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:52 AM   #46
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Glad I can help, been a bit harder lately as so dang busy all the time, whewwwwww!

One competitor used to keep a stuffed animal in back and named him rear phil, lol!

The very few comp cars that use rear speakers just use one or two mids, no tweeters and play them at very low levels. A properly built sound system just does not need them.

There is another situation though, some like to have rear speakers for their passengers to enjoy, rear deck, doors, etc, just bad places so a major compromise either way you go but the deck is best audiowise for front listeners and the doors best for rear seat as not having one pounding the back of your head is nice

I use double faced foam tape for a seal, self taping screws to mount it, several, then mat right up over the baffle and then over that with foam.

Rick
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:14 AM   #47
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio
Glad I can help, been a bit harder lately as so dang busy all the time, whewwwwww!
[...]
I use double faced foam tape for a seal, self taping screws to mount it, several, then mat right up over the baffle and then over that with foam.
Rick
Seeing an actual picture of this would be great



I have a couple of questions............ anyone, please??

1) I don't use the rear doors speakers; do I need to do any deadening at those doors??

I mean, I'm trying to prioritize trying to focus on three or four areas... a couple of days of work; no more than that. Moreover, I'll be trading my car in mid next year... so no need of doing a perfect job

2) After doing the front doors (and I kind of understand all the work that is needed there...); what would you do?? This is a wagon, and trying to follow Rick's instructions is a little difficult...

Lower A pillars, and rear wheel wells?? And THEN the trunk???

3) On the rear wheel wells, you do the right and the left wells? Or you do a whole big thing out of them??

4) No rear deck, right (little obvious)...? No behind the rear seat? I guess not!

5) Rick recommends doing the interior floor before the trunk; is that right? Major problem with trunk is that there are panels everywhere......

6) What do you use to clean the different surfaces?? Specifically, the door outer skin???

I would appreciate you comments on this.


Many thanks!

MO
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:38 AM   #48
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I have a few minutes to spare so will do what I can here Some variations can be done to meet your overall goals and satisfaction level but only you can be the actual judge of that

1) I don't use the rear doors speakers; do I need to do any deadening at those doors??
--In my install guide I cover that issue, to summerize the answer is yes, just seal up the door on the inner metal not the outer skin, seal all holes and cover with the foam and put the panel back on.

I mean, I'm trying to prioritize trying to focus on three or four areas... a couple of days of work; no more than that. Moreover, I'll be trading my car in mid next year... so no need of doing a perfect job

2) After doing the front doors (and I kind of understand all the work that is needed there...); what would you do?? This is a wagon, and trying to follow Rick's instructions is a little difficult...

Lower A pillars, and rear wheel wells?? And THEN the trunk???
--Pretty much, lower A pillars are a bit tough to get to but take very litte material, scaps will do it.

--rear hatch is really next, remove the trim and seal it up like the rear doors.

--cover the wheel wells and at least add some patches of mat to the rear qtr panels, line all this with foam as well, it is for ambient and higher frequency noise than the mat is best at dealing with.

--Then the rear floor, once all that is done the next priority if going further would be the rest of the floor then the roof for those going all out.



3) On the rear wheel wells, you do the right and the left wells? Or you do a whole big thing out of them??

--Not sure exactly what you mean, they are seperated by the width of the car, hmmm, just cover them both, mat then foam



4) No rear deck, right (little obvious)...? No behind the rear seat? I guess not!

--easier in a way but wagons are harder to make quiet than a sedan except the STI of course, they take some serious work but can turn out great

5) Rick recommends doing the interior floor before the trunk; is that right? Major problem with trunk is that there are panels everywhere......
--Not on a wagon, rear areas before the floor.

6) What do you use to clean the different surfaces?? Specifically, the door outer skin???

--Nothing usually, wipe down any dust with a clean rag, if any grease or oil use solvents like acetone or laquer thinner, plenty of ventilation of course and let them dry at the minimum of 2 hours but 3 is better. It may seem dry but there is still off gassing that can effect the mat.

I would appreciate you comments on this.


Many thanks!

MO


Most welcome, now I have to get back to work, oh wait, this is work, glad I love doing it

Rick
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:19 PM   #49
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Rick,
pretty good writeup, but I must add that to this on the door panels, ( maybe I just didn't read it or I skipped over it ) on the door panels, to better reduce outside noise and to even further reduce speaker resonance, It is also highly recommended to put whatever brand of insulating ( dynamat stuff or whatever you call it ) on behind the door panel inside the door. that will reduce resonance from the exterior of the car also and it will definantly help the inside. I did that with my car, and the difference is like night and day. a very easy way to tell is to open and close the door, if you hear things rattling and the overall feel of the door closing sounds like a metallic thud, doing this will greatly reduce that.

I will also second the MDF being used as a speaker baffle, I did the exact same thing with my car. I think we use more MDF in our shop than anything else.

Omar
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:27 PM   #50
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First of all, once again: THANKS!!!

Now, a couple of clarifying questions

Please excuse some of them..... it might be my poor english giving me trouble............

Quote:
Originally Posted by raamaudio
I have a few minutes to spare so will do what I can here Some variations can be done to meet your overall goals and satisfaction level but only you can be the actual judge of that

1) I don't use the rear doors speakers; do I need to do any deadening at those doors??
--In my install guide I cover that issue, to summerize the answer is yes, just seal up the door on the inner metal not the outer skin, seal all holes and cover with the foam and put the panel back on.
Completely understood! Those rear doors WILL be sealed.


Quote:
[...]
2) After doing the front doors (and I kind of understand all the work that is needed there...); what would you do?? This is a wagon, and trying to follow Rick's instructions is a little difficult...
Lower A pillars, and rear wheel wells?? And THEN the trunk???
--Pretty much, lower A pillars are a bit tough to get to but take very litte material, scaps will do it.
I'm having little trouble here understanding...... lower A pillars are like "front wheel wells"???


Quote:
--rear hatch is really next, remove the trim and seal it up like the rear doors.
When you say 'rear hatch', you mean the whole trunk? Or just everything in the trunk above floor level??? How about trunk floor - is this included in 'rear hatch'?? Side panels as well??


Quote:
--cover the wheel wells and at least add some patches of mat to the rear qtr panels, line all this with foam as well, it is for ambient and higher frequency noise than the mat is best at dealing with.
What does that mean?


Quote:
--Then the rear floor, once all that is done the next priority if going further would be the rest of the floor then the roof for those going all out.
'Rear floor' meaning the floor under the rear passengers? Or the floor at the trunk?? I so need this clear as to make my priority list flawless


Quote:
3) On the rear wheel wells, you do the right and the left wells? Or you do a whole big thing out of them??
--Not sure exactly what you mean, they are seperated by the width of the car, hmmm, just cover them both, mat then foam
Got't!


Quote:
4) No rear deck, right (little obvious)...? No behind the rear seat? I guess not!
--easier in a way but wagons are harder to make quiet than a sedan except the STI of course, they take some serious work but can turn out great
5) Rick recommends doing the interior floor before the trunk; is that right? Major problem with trunk is that there are panels everywhere......
--Not on a wagon, rear areas before the floor.
So, by "rear areas" you mean the trunk, and all there???


Quote:
6) What do you use to clean the different surfaces?? Specifically, the door outer skin???
--Nothing usually, wipe down any dust with a clean rag, if any grease or oil use solvents like acetone or laquer thinner, plenty of ventilation of course and let them dry at the minimum of 2 hours but 3 is better. It may seem dry but there is still off gassing that can effect the mat.
[...]
Most welcome, now I have to get back to work, oh wait, this is work, glad I love doing it
Rick
Thank God you really love doing it......


Cheers,

MO
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